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 Posted: Sat, 14th Mar 2015 22:49 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:07; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Mar 2015 22:55 Post subject: |
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gta iv is so fucked with mouse. The view springs around like if it was on some kind of rubber band. They fucked it. Its a game built for controller and plays much better this way.
Twister with fingers? You have that on keyboard. On controller all buttons are right there. in Your hand. Dont have to reach anywhere. In gta iv its not even a big deal to drive and shoot backwards at the same time. at least with 360 controller.
You might suck with controllers and even shitty pc controls of gta iv are better for You but anyone who knows how to use a controller will tell You it's better with original controller controls.
Max Payne 3 was fixed however and mouse worked perfect.
as for Enslaved... whatever. its ue3 game. plays fine with kb+mouse. Jumping sticks to another platform so whatever
3080 | ps5 pro
Sin317-"im 31 years old and still surprised at how much shit comes out of my ass actually ..."
SteamDRM-"Call of Duty is the symbol of the true perfection in every aspect. Call of Duty games are like Mozart's/Beethoven's symphonies"
deadpoetic-"are you new to the cyberspace?"
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Mar 2015 23:05 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:07; edited 1 time in total
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zibztrollingme
Posts: 1526
Location: RAR - Racist Against Russia. Apparently.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 01:42 Post subject: |
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I haven't played AC Unity but I don't see what's so surprising about KB+M?
Controlling in the game didn't bother me since you don't really need the mouse other than "push button to awesome kill".
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65085
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 02:23 Post subject: |
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I finished Dark Souls 1 with mouse and keyboard, that was the equivalent of taking the master degree in A̶d̶v̶a̶n̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶M̶o̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶'̶n̶ ̶K̶e̶y̶b̶o̶a̶r̶d̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶ Sadomasochism. I regret nothing  
Hell, when I was a teen I would play Grand Prix Legends with the directional arrows, that was pretty crazy as well when you think about it.
These days I still use M/KB for pretty much everything, except for when it comes to driving simulations and sports, where I prefer the gamepad. As for all the other genres, I always feel more comfortable playing with my mouse and keyboard. It's all down to personal taste after all, this shouldn't be questioned by anyone really. 
There is a fairly big problem though, and it's the fact that lazy ports are so frequent nowadays, that developers barely try to implement/adjust a controlling method different from the "standard" one and that sucks, it really does.
Lag, nasty acceleration, impossibility to rebind keys, clunkiness, you name it. This game also had so many sensitivity problems at first, that made it nearly unplayable with M/KB (although after some tweaking and adapting I eventually got it working). Fortunately there are companies that actually care, but they're a minority. I will never give up so easily though, it's always challenge accepted time 
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 02:48 Post subject: |
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Hats off if you are gonna play Mortal Kombat X with mouse+keyboard
| ixigia wrote: | I finished Dark Souls 1 with mouse and keyboard, that was the equivalent of taking the master degree in A̶d̶v̶a̶n̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶M̶o̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶'̶n̶ ̶K̶e̶y̶b̶o̶a̶r̶d̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶ Sadomasochism. I regret nothing
Hell, when I was a teen I would play Grand Prix Legends with the directional arrows, that was pretty crazy as well when you think about it.
These days I still use M/KB for pretty much everything, except for when it comes to driving simulations and sports, where I prefer the gamepad. As for all the other genres, I always feel more comfortable playing with my mouse and keyboard. It's all down to personal taste after all, this shouldn't be questioned by anyone really.
There is a fairly big problem though, and it's the fact that lazy ports are so frequent nowadays, that developers barely try to implement/adjust a controlling method different from the "standard" one and that sucks, it really does.
Lag, nasty acceleration, impossibility to rebind keys, clunkiness, you name it. This game also had so many sensitivity problems at first, that made it nearly unplayable with M/KB (although after some tweaking and adapting I eventually got it working). Fortunately there are companies that actually care, but they're a minority. I will never give up so easily though, it's always challenge accepted time |
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 02:58 Post subject: |
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actually fighting games are better with keyboard once you get used to it, because the button input is faster and more akin to the buttons of an arcade machine. also since kb keys are separate from each other and opposing directions can be pressed simultanesouly unlike with a dpad or arcade stick, you can actually buffer moves that you wouldnt be able to without a kb. so yea, in high level play in fighting games, kb > gamepad.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65085
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 03:14 Post subject: |
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Unfortunately I have no experience with fighting games, because I dislike the formula in general 
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 07:45 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:07; edited 1 time in total
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zibztrollingme
Posts: 1526
Location: RAR - Racist Against Russia. Apparently.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 08:59 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:07; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 14:37 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: |
FWIW; I find GTAIV one of the best games for a mouse as I can aim at any pixel I choose and hit it with ease. |
and to you, shooting everything with ease and steamrolling through the game is better than having worse aim, but making combat at least a bit challenging? I mean, in GTA IV, cover loses its purpose when you use a mouse. you can shoot enemies in the tiny pixel sticking through the cover. With a gamepad, this just doesn't happen.
As for the grid with keyboard, yeah, its playable, much like all console ports with kb+m. But why settle for playable?
The tactile experience is just horrid. You are saying that you prefer the tactile feel of wsad in an an arcade racer, over a force feedback, analog gamepad?
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 15:01 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | Thanks... for repeating the point I just made.
Find one that does require precision and you can substitute 'gamepad' with 'racing wheel' for the millions of 'purists' out there. |
you can, but this was about gamepad vs kb, and when it comes to precision in racing games digital wasd input cant beat the sensitivity of an analog stick, wasd is basically just a simple dpad.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 15:51 Post subject: |
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I still haven't seen any KB+M defenders explain how 4 directions of digital input are as good as 360 degrees of infinite degrees of analog input, for third-person character control.
| Interinactive wrote: | | Find one that does require precision and you can substitute 'gamepad' with 'racing wheel' for the millions of 'purists' out there. |
Bro do you even iRacing? It's so realistic that there is literally no way to play it sans-wheel. GRID is a bad example because it is a very simple arcade racer.
| Quote: | | also since kb keys are separate from each other and opposing directions can be pressed simultanesouly unlike with a dpad or arcade stick, you can actually buffer moves that you wouldnt be able to without a kb. |
On the contrary, that will actually fuck up combo inputs in a some games.
| The_Zeel wrote: | | so yea, in high level play in fighting games, kb > gamepad. |
I have never seen a keyboard in use in high-level fighting tournaments. The difference in fighting games (which aside from Smash, always use digital control for movement) is between using a finger to press a key or d-pad, and using your whole hand to hold an arcade joystick.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 16:17 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | I still haven't seen any KB+M defenders explain how 4 directions of digital input are as good as 360 degrees of infinite degrees of analog input, for third-person character control.
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You don't use the keys for 360 control, you use the mouse for the direction of the character movement. You just press forward then point the mouse in every direction, with the well known speed, precision and accuracy, infinitely superior to console retard pads.
Let me just point you to some PC designed third person games, like Heretic 2, Rune, Heavy Metal Fakk 2, Hitman or Max Payne 1/2. Fell free to (re)install any of these and witness how 3rd person actually controls like.
Also funny how people seem to think mouse and keyboard is the way to go when aiming and shooting in first person mode, but doing the exact same thing in third person is somehow magically better with retard pads. You do the exact same thing, you just have a 3d character visible on screen. It doesn't help that modern developers take less and less time to implement proper mouse and keyboard controls these days. And who can blame them, with "pc gamers" like these, that use console peripherals to play games on pc which would be far superior on mouse and keyboard if the devs actually did their job
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 16:20 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | I still haven't seen any KB+M defenders explain how 4 directions of digital input are as good as 360 degrees of infinite degrees of analog input, for third-person character control. |
thing is with all those "infinite" degrees with analog stick I still dont feel in control of my character and thats all that matter for me in TP games (tried gamepad yeasterday on AC:C, AC:U, Mordor, Enslaved , GTA 4 and even Dark Souls), unlike with 8 directions on wasd and mouselook to move camera - moving camera on gamepad is ******)
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 16:39 Post subject: |
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| qqq wrote: |
Let me just point you to some PC designed third person games, like Heretic 2, Rune, Heavy Metal Fakk 2, Hitman or Max Payne 1/2. Fell free to (re)install any of these and witness how 3rd person actually controls like.
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that's the whole point though. if games were designed with PC in mind, no one would be saying pads are better. but they're not. in almost all multiplatform games controls and gameplay are designed around the gamepad.
that's the reality.
using a mouse in those games to me end up feeling like having an aimbot in a multiplayer game. you simply have better controls than then game environment can handle.
I can't recall a recent single player FPS that actually required mouse input. they all have dumb and slow AI that is molded around the fact it takes more effort to properly aim with a gamepad.
I can understand wishing to have the best aim for multiplayer games, but in single player, where challenge is a part of the game immersion, to me its really weird that a lot of people seem to want to steamroll gamepad centric games with superior mouse aim.
A recent example for me is ship combat in AC games, i've tried with a mouse just to see how it feels. it just ruins it how easy and fast you can see everything and aim the guns.
analog thumbsticks actually give the feeling of cannon aiming being slugish and heavy. you play with m+kb, you completely lose that and end up with an easy mode ship shooter. It just makes no sense in the context of the game. its not quake 3.
If people legitimately prefer that in games that's great for them. but I think it should be pointed out that its a trade off:
you gain better precision, but you lose immersion, challenge and the tactile experience.
At least that has been my experience in testing m+kb vs gamepad in games designed for the gamepad.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 16:44 Post subject: |
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| Drowning_witch wrote: |
that's the whole point though. if games were designed with PC in mind, no one would be saying pads are better. but they're not. in almost all multiplatform games controls and gameplay are designed around the gamepad.
that's the reality.
using a mouse in those games to me end up feeling like having an aimbot in a multiplayer game. you simply have better controls than then game environment can handle.
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So because the games are designed around retard pads, you say they end up simple and devoid of challenge. I agree. But then, your answer to this is to continue playing with retard pads ? What will change then ? When PC gamers voluntarely use console gear, when back in the day it wasn't even an option ,they were outraged when bad mouse and keyboard controls happened. Nothing will change now, if we continue like this
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zibztrollingme
Posts: 1526
Location: RAR - Racist Against Russia. Apparently.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 16:54 Post subject: |
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| qqq wrote: | | Cedge wrote: | I still haven't seen any KB+M defenders explain how 4 directions of digital input are as good as 360 degrees of infinite degrees of analog input, for third-person character control.
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You don't use the keys for 360 control, you use the mouse for the direction of the character movement. You just press forward then point the mouse in every direction, with the well known speed, precision and accuracy, infinitely superior to console retard pads.
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What he said really. You never need to press any button other than W (go forward) because you use the mouse to change the direction. You only really use AD (left, right) if you need to strafe/dodge bullets whatever.
So your point about moving the characters in only four directions with wasd is moot because nobody really does it.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 17:11 Post subject: |
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| qqq wrote: |
So because the games are designed around retard pads, you say they end up simple and devoid of challenge. I agree. But then, your answer to this is to continue playing with retard pads ? What will change then ? |
Vote with the wallet, while enjoying multiplatform games by handicapping myself with a gamepad to keep some resemblance of a challenge is my way of approaching that.
+ supporting PC centric games that are actually playtested with m+kb.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 19:19 Post subject: |
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Boooooooooring. Nobody talks about Enslaved. My bump has failed.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 19:20 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 19:36 Post subject: |
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| qqq wrote: | | You don't use the keys for 360 control, you use the mouse for the direction of the character movement. You just press forward then point the mouse in every direction, with the well known speed, precision and accuracy, infinitely superior to console retard pads. |
Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy/3D World, your point is invalid.
| Quote: | | Let me just point you to some PC designed third person games, like Heretic 2, Rune, Heavy Metal Fakk 2, Hitman or Max Payne 1/2. Fell free to (re)install any of these and witness how 3rd person actually controls like. |
And let me just point out that all of those games have the camera in a fixed position behind the character, which is why it works. Aiming and camera control are 100% fixed to each other. Where the camera is looking, is where you're aiming. The camera can barely move laterally, longitudinally, height, or adjust angle, without fucking up the aiming control paradigm. That would never work for a platformer, with a dynamic camera. Third person shooters like you listed, sure, but those focus more on aiming than complex environment traversal.
The mouse works for direct/absolute controls, but not so well for relative. A thumbstick excells for relative, but isn't good for absolute. Learn the difference. This is why the KB+M controls are fine in Assassin's Creed while you're walking around with the camera behind you (absolute directional control fixed to character), but falls apart when the camera pulls back for combat (directional control relative to camera).
But you don't actually understand control and camera design well enough to see the difference, and obviously think that every third-person control scheme should be the same limited paradigm. Please, explain to me about how much better Super Mario 3D World would play with a mouse.
Tl;dr, it depends on the goddamn game, and not all games should have the same control design paradigm!
Last edited by Cedge on Sun, 15th Mar 2015 19:53; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 19:51 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 20:03 Post subject: |
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| Drowning_witch wrote: | | consolitis wrote: | | Boooooooooring. Nobody talks about Enslaved. My bump has failed. |
thats what you get for praising a slightly above average derpsole action game, and trolling the remember me thread 
there, you can counter it now and talk about your sweetie  |
Not this shit again My main point was Remember Me wasn't some kind of hit that received strong sales as sausje said again and again and again.
But Enslaved sold just as bad. And if one said that Enslaved sold well, I would be correcting them like I did in the case of Remember Me. You can like whatever you want to like, just don't mix facts (sales) with preferences was my point.
Having said that the two games are very similar but almost everything is done better in Enslaved.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51421
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 20:15 Post subject: |
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Oh shiiiiiit someone summoned the Remember Me Defense Force!
Run consolitis, RUN! 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Sun, 15th Mar 2015 22:27 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:07; edited 2 times in total
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