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Parallax_
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Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 09:31 Post subject: Good 2.1 system for music/gaming? |
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Think it's about time I upgraded the soundsystem on my PC. Today I have an old Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS soundcard, which I'm going to swap with a Creative X-Fi Titanium (any other suggestions?).
I have two cheap stereo-speakers, which are so cheap I don't even remember the brand , that I want to upgrade to a 2.1 set. When it comes to usage, I listen to a lot of music, and also a bit of gaming. I am looking for as good as possible quality for a maximum price of about $300/€220.
Also I need to be able to get it here in Norway, import is such a hazzle
Any recommendations?
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 09:38 Post subject: |
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2.1 in this day and age, are you kidding? Get a 5.1, it's great for gaming and also for music, especially when you have a creative sound card, turn on Stereo Surround and music will sound amazing from all the speakers.
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Parallax_
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 09:42 Post subject: |
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I have no space whatsoever for a 5.1 set around my PC, that's why. Plus, music doesn't sound -better- from a 5.1 than a 2.1. 
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 09:49 Post subject: |
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Headphones a complete no-no? I tend to prefer quality headphones if the only alternative is a 2.1.
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 10:00 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | music doesn't sound -better- from a 5.1 than a 2.1.  |
But it does. It sounds hell of a lot better. Why the fuck would you get such a good sound card and use only 2.1 with it, makes no sense to me.
| Quote: | | CMSS-3D is very effective when upmixing a stereo source to multichannel, because it both recreates the ambient sound of a recording, and preserves the center of the sound image thanks to the center channel. In a typical recording, the singer will be perfectly centered in the soundstage and won't "wander" due to imprecision in the recording or the reproduction. |
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Parallax_
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 10:12 Post subject: |
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| inz wrote: | | Headphones a complete no-no? I tend to prefer quality headphones if the only alternative is a 2.1. |
I hate headphones, it gives no real sense of direction of sound and it damages the hearing over time.
| Glottis wrote: | | Parallax_ wrote: | music doesn't sound -better- from a 5.1 than a 2.1.  |
But it does. It sounds hell of a lot better. Why the fuck would you get such a good sound card and use only 2.1 with it, makes no sense to me. |
Old card support 5.1 as well, the reason I'm upgrading is because of sound characteristic and quality it can produce over the old one. And if you wanna go the music 5.1 vs stereo route, have a nice read
Spoiler: |
Q: I’m still hanging on to the old school idea that the best speaker set up for music (not movies) is to take two high quality speakers, place them the correct distance apart in a room with adequate acoustics, and listen. But surround sound is overtaking audio and has obvious advantages for video. Does surround sound, assuming Dolby Pro-Logic II and good equipment, produce a better musical experience than my two-speaker arrangement?
-Al Barton, Excelsior, MN
A: This is a beauty is in the eye of the beholder kind of question, so it will vary according to personal tastes. There are two schools of thought, the “purist” approach and the “it’s better” approach. Before we discuss them I will describe the different ways music in surround sound is created.
“Discrete” surround sound means each channel (or speaker) has its own track which is played through it. Stereo, with two channels and two speakers, is a discrete format. Some music on Super Audio CD (SACD) or DVD-Audio (DVD-A) has more than two channels, for example 5.1 or 6.1. The .1 stands for the subwoofer. It is a separate track but is not full-range, only handling bass frequencies, so it is denoted separately. Each channel is different and can play the full range of audio frequencies.
“Matrix” surround creates surround sound from stereo sources by either decoding or synthesizing surround information on a two channel source. The original Dolby Pro-Logic was a matrix surround system. Its drawbacks are the limited bandwidth of the surround channels, meaning they only played midrange sounds, with no deep bass or high treble. With Pro-Logic both the left rear and right rear speakers play exactly the same sounds- you can switch the speaker wires and the sound would be exactly the same.
In the mid-1990s a proprietary format called Six-Axis was introduced by Harman/Kardon’s high-end Citation company. It created full-range stereo surround from Dolby Pro-Logic sources by selectively mixing information from the front right and left speakers into the surround speakers. Though this may sound kind of a sloppy way to do surround sound, as someone who has owned and used this system I can vouch for its effectiveness and great sound. Dolby Pro-Logic II is a further refinement of the Six-Axis concept. If you are not using Pro-Logic II with TV, you should be- the difference compared to Pro-Logic is dramatic, to say the least.
Most music recordings are two channel, which means that if you listen in surround you will be hearing an “artificially created” performance as you will not be hearing the material in any way the creator intended- the surround process is altering the signal and sending it to the rear speakers, where it was never really intended to go. This brings us to the purist approach- trueness to the source. If it is stereo, you listen with two speakers. If it is a multi-channel surround SACD or DVD-A, you listen in surround. Anything else is less than high fidelity.
The “it sounds better” camp states the spaciousness and seemingly greater realism of surround. Jim Fosgate is the audio engineer responsible for most of the advances in surround sound systems, having developed both Six-Axis and Dolby Pro-Logic II, and he is very much in this camp, but backs it up with scientificevidence. In manuals for Citation gear he designed, studies were quoted where more than two speakers were deemed necessary for effective stereo imaging- which could be inferred that it is more accurate than simple two-channel.
So what it comes down to is there is no solid answer and it is all personal preference. Try them both and go with what you like best. You will probably find your preference varies with each individual recording- some will sound better in surround, others in stereo.
--
I enjoy watching a good movie and listening to multichannel music on my home theater system, but I’m more interested in and passionate about two-channel sound. Maybe it’s the fact that I grew up in a stereo world, but I think there are other, more significant reasons. A good two-channel system makes it easy to visualize the musical performance in the soundstage, to place the vocalists and instruments in space, and to feel as is I’m in the best seat in the house listening to my favorite musician. I can see the performance with my ears when I listen to a good stereo recording. In my opinion, a good stereo system does more to make music real and bring it to life because of the spatial characteristics and separation of sounds. Multichannel music and movies in surround sound get all of the attention these days, but stereo sound is alive and well judging by the breadth of high-quality two-channel components and speakers available today. And a good stereo system doesn’t have to cost a fortune – a moderately priced receiver or amp, a disc player or turntable and a good pair of stereo speakers placed properly can make a great two-channel system. If you have an opinion about stereo compared to multichannel sound, please leave me a comment and let me know what you think.
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 10:29 Post subject: |
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I don't need to read anything, I can just listen. I turn off Stereo Surround and music sounds like shit on my 5.1 setup, I turn it on and it sounds great. And many of my friends thought the same when I showed them the difference.
BTW Stereo Surround is not artificial (but CMSS-3D is), it just sounds better coz music is coming from all the speakers instead of just two front ones, creating a really good sounding surround effect.
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 13:49 Post subject: |
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2.1 is still awesome if you've got decent speakers. i've got 2 m-audio BX5 and a BX-10s sub hooked to a x-fi, played around a bit with the x-fi and speaker settings and they beat the shit out of any other desktop sound system below 1000 € in terms of quality, loudness and looks.
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 14:03 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | they beat the shit out of any other desktop sound system below 1000 € |
pc speakers don't go higher then like 300 euro's
| Quote: | | PC awesome button = Uninstall! |
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 14:07 Post subject: |
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| bushwacka wrote: | | 2.1 is still awesome if you've got decent speakers. |
No it's not. Try games with 5.1 and you'll never want 2.1 shit again. I guess this is where you come in defending your 2.1 1000€ speakers saying how 5.1 doesn't make a difference.
Don't get me wrong, dedicated high quality 2.1 audio system for music is great, but 2.1 speakers for a computer? Please...
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Last edited by Glottis on Wed, 6th May 2009 14:11; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 14:10 Post subject: |
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paralax: you could save money by not upgrading your soundcard, and just buy a nice 5.1 system, like a logitech z-5500.
the audigy 2 zs is still a decent soundcard, they don't age as fast as gfx cards.
| Quote: | | PC awesome button = Uninstall! |
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 14:23 Post subject: |
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i'm not saying that it doesn't make a difference - i'm just a little audiophile bitch who prefers a beefy 2.1 setup to the usual desktop surround systems. besides, it saves me the hassle of placing rear speakers in my room where they would just get in the way of everything. and for gaming with surround sound purposes, i've already got a 7.1 setup in my living room.
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 15:34 Post subject: |
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Get any speakers by 'Altec Lansing'.
I also think fisk should be unbanned.

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Parallax_
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 16:45 Post subject: |
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| Glottis wrote: | | No it's not. Try games with 5.1 and you'll never want 2.1 shit again. |
Games and movies is one thing, you won't have me arguing that any of those sound better on a 2.1 than 5.1. However, 99.99% of music is made for stereo, and have to be emulated on 5.1. In fact, if you had read what I quoted, you would know that music sounds best on stereo, more speakers don't add anything more in terms of quality - they actually lessen the experience because of the way the spatial sound is output.
As I said I only have space for 2.1, not 5.1 - and most of my usage comes from music, only a little bit of gaming - but keep on blabbering on with your ignorance. I have yet to see any suggestion from you whatsoever.
| bushwacka wrote: | | 2.1 is still awesome if you've got decent speakers. i've got 2 m-audio BX5 and a BX-10s sub hooked to a x-fi |
Thanks, I will check them out and see if I can find any retailers selling it here
| Kamikaze666 wrote: | paralax: you could save money by not upgrading your soundcard, and just buy a nice 5.1 system, like a logitech z-5500.
the audigy 2 zs is still a decent soundcard, they don't age as fast as gfx cards. |
One thing I am wondering, I know all the technical differences, but anyone got any practical experience in the difference between Audigy 2 and X-FI as far as sound in music and games goes? I would't mind getting a 5.1 system and keep the old soundcard as far as money-saving goes, just that rear and center speakers would be gathering dust. But I guess it's not a bad idea as far as futureproofing goes, like me switching to a bigger place in the future
| dominae wrote: | | Get any speakers by 'Altec Lansing'. |
Will measure them up against all the options I got, thanks! 
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nouseforaname
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 18:03 Post subject: |
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I have a set of Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers for my desktop computer, they sound pretty good and the sub is pretty powerful. They were pretty cheap though, just $60 .. something like this (but older model):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836113168
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 18:34 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | One thing I am wondering, I know all the technical differences, but anyone got any practical experience in the difference between Audigy 2 and X-FI as far as sound in music and games goes? I would't mind getting a 5.1 system and keep the old soundcard as far as money-saving goes, just that rear and center speakers would be gathering dust. But I guess it's not a bad idea as far as futureproofing goes, like me switching to a bigger place in the future  |
Stick with Audigy 2 and get unofficial drivers for it, they unlock tons of features that Creative deliberately hidden from Audigy 2 users so they get X-Fi and other expensive not needed cards. Download these great drivers here: http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=139702
Here's more about how the guy who made unofficial drivers got threatened by Creative and then after community's outrage was allowed to continue his work: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/04/daniel_k-who-fi/
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Parallax_
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 18:53 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | They look and sound awesome! Thanks Nouse, I'll check those out myself once I get the cash  |
Let me know when you do Sabin, I am having trouble finding places that sell Altec here in Norway, or maybe I am looking at the wrong places
Seems to be alot of places selling different Creative or Logitech systems, but harder to find Altec and other systems.
I remember reading about this some time back (but have since forgotten about it), but now that I actually check out the feature list, damn, I regret not getting it sooner. Now I will definitively keep the Audigy 2 ZS and install those drivers. Thanks for the tip 
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nouseforaname
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Parallax_
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Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 19:38 Post subject: |
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If I can avoid buying from abroad, I'd much rather find a place to buy here in Norway because:
- No import toll, and I don't have to wait several weeks for the postal monkeys to do their thing
- Warranty, in case anything should break, but of course we're not talking about expensive items here
Alas, it seems I have to look abroad for the Altec Lansing sets.
This doesn't look bad.
Review 1
Review 2
Haven't decided on anything yet though.
| nouseforaname wrote: | | Altec Lansing is a North America company, not surprising they are hard to find internationally. |
Their US website seems to be defunct tho 
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nouseforaname
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Parallax_
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 20:02 Post subject: |
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Yeah, that could have something to do with it. They haven't included the Altec products in the Plantronics website tho.
I would very much love an overview over their products coming from the US, because maybe Altec MX5021 isn't their newest 2.1 model? Who knows... sure is tempting tho 
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Posted: Wed, 6th May 2009 20:03 Post subject: |
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what about buying a second hand amp and a pair of bookshelfs?
will sound much better then those puny satelites that fit under the door 
| Quote: | | PC awesome button = Uninstall! |
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nouseforaname
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Parallax_
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Posted: Thu, 7th May 2009 08:44 Post subject: |
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Cool, I will check some reviews of MX5021 and also check out some other systems before I finally land on a choice.
I guess most people here sit on 5.1 systems, but anyone have any experience with Creative vs. Logitech? For instance Creative Gigaworks T3 and Logitech Z-Cinéma 2.1? Over the years I have mostly been using Creative in the PC sound department, so no idea about Logitech.
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Parallax_
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Posted: Fri, 8th May 2009 08:37 Post subject: |
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What I have been considering so far:
Altec MX5021
Logitech Z-Cinéma 2.1 (USB connection only, so I think not)
Creative Gigaworks T3
Harman/ Kardon Soundsticks II (looks wicked and supposedly has pretty great sound, tho abit simple in the options department)
Razer Mako 2.1 Advanced Desktop Audio (sounds great but way too expensive for a 2.1 set, then I might as well get the Z-5500)
I think I might land on a Creative Gigaworks T3 after reading some reviews. We shall see 
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deelix
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Posted: Fri, 8th May 2009 08:47 Post subject: |
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http://www.prisguide.no/product.php?product_id=17095
bah, only at pixmania. In other words they are not in Norway, so could take some time before you get them. pixmania haven't got the best customer reviews either :/
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Parallax_
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Posted: Fri, 8th May 2009 08:56 Post subject: |
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Yeah if I do get Altec, I am getting it from the UK. Pixmania sucks.
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Posted: Fri, 8th May 2009 09:22 Post subject: |
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Klipsch make the ProMedia GMX A-2.1 which is supposed to be great. Try and find a store that will let you play around with the speakers before you buy is basically the only thing I can suggest.
Don't believe what people say with audio equipment though, it's highly subjective. I could find someone who disagrees with any non-numerical judgment, of any piece of equipment. It's insane and a lot of companies profit off it. Only in the Audiophile section will you see a $5 cable priced at 10x that or more and premium speakers made with old old school paper cones and stuff like that.
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