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 Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 22:20 Post subject: Second-hand buyers worse than pirates |
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From a comment by Tim Ogul, here:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-16-bleszinski-aaa-numbers-dont-work-with-used-and-rental-games-around
| Quote: | | People who buy games used kind of are worse than pirates though, since pirates clearly don't want to pay anything, so they're easier to write off, while used game buys are clearly willing to pay something, they'd just rather not pay anything to the people who actually made the game they're playing. |
| Quote: |
Sure, you can make a much cheaper game and turn a profit with much lower sales, but what about the developers who want to make that "big" game that has a lot of high cost talent involved, and what about the players that want to play it? I'd rather have developers be able to make big games under the assumption that people will not be able to steal their work, than to have them limit their scope by the assumption that half or more of the people who will be playing their game will be stealing it from them. |
My ever so-ranty retort:
| Quote: | @ Tim
| Quote: | | People who buy games used kind of are worse than pirates though, since pirates clearly don't want to pay anything, so they're easier to write off, while used game buys are clearly willing to pay something, they'd just rather not pay anything to the people who actually made the game they're playing. |
Or, they want the game cheaper than it is new. Second-hand buyers don't actively avoid paying developers because they're dicks, they actively avoid paying developers because the cost of a new game is more than they're willing to pay. And that's before you get to the trade-in ecosystem.
Edit to add:
How many other industries survive with a second-hand market? PC components, home media, comics, books, cars, hi-fi/audio. They're all sustainable even with a second-hand market. Why is it that some in the video-games industry think they're an exception? And why is there an assumption now that second-hand buyers are worse than pirates (something I've read elsewhere recently)? I love my Steam collection, I do, but taking away second-hand without giving the consumer something in exchange - like cheaper prices on Steam - is just no way to run an industry.
| Quote: | | I'd rather have developers be able to make big games under the assumption that people will not be able to steal their work, than to have them limit their scope by the assumption that half or more of the people who will be playing their game will be stealing it from them |
So, you've never bought an item second-hand then? Because, you can apply that argument to everything that is second-hand.
| Quote: | "You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing. The numbers do not work people,
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So, the assumption is that the used and rental market is screwing developers out of money. What happens when the used and rental market goes? Will prices come down? Does anyone honesty think the prices of games will come down? I think people are fooling themselves here. |
Never have I seen someone so obviously.... arghhhhhh.
Right.
I feel better now.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 22:54 Post subject: |
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I said it earlier, if we would to start to block used games it is possible we would see (not saying it will happen, just that is would be much more likely to happen):
- Steam like discounts
- More SP focused games with no tacked on MP
- No tacked on DLC
You can't compare digital market with other used sales markets. Physical products decay so their price goes down with time but so does their actual value.
Games/Music/Movies don't. Also music makes most of its money from royalties and tours, movies make most of the money at the box office and games make most of the money from retail sales. So out of those games are obviously in the worst situation when used sales are concerned.
And the fact is that stores like GameStop have a huge margin of profits on used game sales. On 30$ game they make 15-20$. I don't see how that is fair, and I don't see such large amount of profits happen when it comes to other products.
Something is obviously wrong here. And even if you ignore all that, publishers wont. They'll keep trying to push multiplayer modes where they don't belong, crappy DLC, online DRM and what not to prevent used sales (and piracy).
So the question is now, if publishers would actually start to require GameStop to pay a fee for relesale, would that actually increase the price of used games noticeably (or decrease buying price), or would GameStop margin of profits finally go down to some normal level?
And would we start seeing Steam like discounts?
I don't have answers to those questions, so in the end I don't know which is better. What I do know is I don't think its fair that GameStop makes a huge profit just on resale while actually decent publishers like Square Enix are making good games and are struggling to cover the costs of development.
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zipfero
Posts: 8938
Location: White Shaft
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 22:59 Post subject: |
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Imagine someone from the automotive industry saying that car thieves are better than used car buyers. :FFF
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 23:01 Post subject: |
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Going "digital" won't lower the prices of console games, not one bit. Both MS and Sony sell full 360/PS3 titles on their stores and the prices haven't lowered and there aren't any monster sales either.
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2221301#2221301
Not to mention Microsoft *just* announced that their 1st-party games are still going to sell for $59.99. So as far as I'm concerned, MS playing the "it will make things cheaper!" card is just nothing but utter bullshit - they're just trying to screw gamers over. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though, so I guess we'll see in 2-3 years  If I thought for one second that MS were actually doing this for the good of gamers I'd be less pissy about it, but let's face it, MS doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us.
This isn't targeted at you, Bearish, it's just a universal rant towards MS and anyone else that whines about the used games industry. GameStop are criminals, no doubt about that, the prices they pay and the prices they charge are downright insulting - but that's not the fault of used games, it's purely due to GameStop's greed. MS isn't any better, as shown above with the cost of "retail" games being sold on the digital store.
| zipfero wrote: | | Imagine someone from the automotive industry saying that car thieves are better than used car buyers. :FFF |
They sure as hell wouldn't be defended for saying that either. Xbots are just special kinds of degenerates though.
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Jun 2013 23:18 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jun 2013 07:54 Post subject: |
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Digital sales are dangerous if there's no competition and that's what you get on a closed platform - PSN is indeed good proof of this. Even with discounts, games are very expensive.
I think it would hurt them in the long run anyway since people always flock to system which are affordable so if they're forced to pay for very expensive games, they'll simply move on and find something better and cheaper.
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jun 2013 10:20 Post subject: |
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Same thread:
| Quote: | Michael Bennett
Designer
Zynga
Used games are the same as piracy, except that the pirate gets paid. I'd much prefer any game I worked on was pirated than have some leech of a retail chain make money off my work at everyone else's expense (including the consumer). |
There seems to be a vast amount of hatred towards second-hand gamers now.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jun 2013 12:53 Post subject: |
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Well then they should target those shitty used game stores shouldn't they? Since they don't have that power it seems, they're targeting the weakest link instead, the gamers.
I still don't understand how it can be legal to sell a 'license' of a game for full price and put any restrictions you want on it. If I pay for something, it should be mine.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51410
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jun 2013 13:32 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | Same thread:
| Quote: | Michael Bennett
Designer
Zynga
Used games are the same as piracy, except that the pirate gets paid. I'd much prefer any game I worked on was pirated than have some leech of a retail chain make money off my work at everyone else's expense (including the consumer). |
There seems to be a vast amount of hatred towards second-hand gamers now. |
I pity the fool who pirates zynga shit 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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