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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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 Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 12:18 Post subject: |
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| me7 wrote: | | remyleblau wrote: | all that MS bullshit aside, its still funny to me that steam is exactly the same and even worse  not that i really care about it, as long as we have isodemos (TM) |
There is still Steam's offline mode that gives it an edge.
But on the other hand, Steam doesn't allow you to resell games at all. |
Neither can microsoft or sony or nintendo. If you purchase the digital version.
Steam is first and foremost a digital platform. It doesn't rely on physical media. It doesn't need it. It only needs an internet connection to download the file, authenticate it, and install it. Other than that, for many out there, it's an offline digital platform. That's the edge here.
So steam isn't worse. If steam offered a physical media, and didn't let you share it without some compensation to gaben, then yes steam would worse. Heck itunes is the same as steam. A digital platform that you can't use to purchase items w/o an internet connection.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Neon
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Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 12:20 Post subject: |
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And for the love of FUCK, Steam isn't the only option for PC gaming, you have twelve billion other sites that offer digital games. Compare that to Microsoft Store or whatever, that's the ONLY WAY you'll be able to buy games.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:01 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | Neither can microsoft or sony or nintendo. If you purchase the digital version.
Steam is first and foremost a digital platform. It doesn't rely on physical media. It doesn't need it. It only needs an internet connection to download the file, authenticate it, and install it. Other than that, for many out there, it's an offline digital platform. That's the edge here. |
Isn't XBO first and foremost a digital platform as well? Why should they be judged by different metrics? Sure, you can buy a game in a s tore, just like you can buy Steamworks games in stores, but the discs are worthless. The only valuable thing in the box you buy will be the CD-key.
| WaldoJ wrote: |
So steam isn't worse. If steam offered a physical media, and didn't let you share it without some compensation to gaben, then yes steam would worse. Heck itunes is the same as steam. A digital platform that you can't use to purchase items w/o an internet connection. |
Then go to a store, purchase a physical copy of a Steamworks game, bind it to your account and then try to share it - with or without compensation to gaben.
| Neon wrote: | | And for the love of FUCK, Steam isn't the only option for PC gaming, you have twelve billion other sites that offer digital games. Compare that to Microsoft Store or whatever, that's the ONLY WAY you'll be able to buy games. |
Then please tell me how I can buy a non-Steam version of a Steamworks game like GRID2. Since ~80% of games released today are using Steamworks, there is hardly any choice left.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:08 Post subject: |
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Steam might have some of the same restrictions, like not being able to resell games, but I don't see MS doing recurrent 75% sales anytime soon. If I have the option to buy a game for 15 bucks after a couple of months, I don't care much about resell value. If I pay 60 bucks however, not being able to sell it after I'm done would piss me off.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:14 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 03:23; edited 1 time in total
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:18 Post subject: |
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As I wrote previously, there is no danger of Steam pulling the plug any time soon. But when MS releases the next box and it's not backwards compatible COMPLETELY, then your XBone games will be only available as long as it's profitable to maintain the servers.
I have my doubts that even MS will be that idiotic to endanger previous purchases for the sake of a new console, but I wouldn't put it past them either. They already shut down the original XBox's Live service completely. There went every single piece of DLC you ever bought for that system right there.
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Neon
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Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:24 Post subject: |
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| me7 wrote: |
Then please tell me how I can buy a non-Steam version of a Steamworks game like GRID2. Since ~80% of games released today are using Steamworks, there is hardly any choice left. |
You can buy GRID 2 on Origin and it doesn't require a Steam account then.
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mug2k
Posts: 698
Location: UK
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Mutantius
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Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:32 Post subject: |
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You can resell physical media on steam. It is an annoying process but at least you can.
You have dozens of options on PC, Steam games can be played offline, it is a digital store that is not bound to any specific hardware, you get cdkeys so if the not so likely thing happens that steam shuts down the servers you'll be able to still play your games. Massive sales, have you seen console sales? Those sales are crap and they have dreadful prices, paying physical media prices like 60€ for months old games.
So no stop trying to drag steam into this to defend Xbox,sony or even Nintendo's E-shops. Would be like comparing Origin with steam. Heck even Origin is less restricted than Xbox shop, and I feel dirty to even say that  From now on with every new generation all your previous purchases will mean shit and you'll end up paying for it again one way or another.
/rant
Edit: to make it clear Console digital platforms =/= Any digital shop on pc... Because: not bound to specific hardware.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51411
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 13:39 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | | me7 wrote: |
Then please tell me how I can buy a non-Steam version of a Steamworks game like GRID2. Since ~80% of games released today are using Steamworks, there is hardly any choice left. |
You can buy GRID 2 on Origin and it doesn't require a Steam account then. |
And besides, while games might be locked on steam they still can be bought on >9000 stores around the internet, via your regular retail store or via steamtrading.
Just the same as the future games for the xdurrone, I'm sure (except from the retail store). 
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:02 Post subject: |
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| remyleblau wrote: | | all that MS bullshit aside, its still funny to me that steam is exactly the same and even worse not that i really care about it, as long as we have isodemos (TM) |
They are not even comparable WTF.
Steam has cheap sales, will MS? Nah.
Let's say Steam no longer wants to do cheap sales anymore, so what, Amazon will.
Let' say Amazon doesn't want to do cheap sales anymore, GMG will.
etc.
Can you play your games offline on Steam? Yes.
Do the Steam servers need to check every x hours/days your games? No.
Can you play with the same Steam account on 100000000000000000000 different computers? Yes.
Does Steam require your camera to always be on to play your games? No.
Does Xbox come with a Workshop that promotes/enables/simplifies the creation of user created content? No.
Can you make money by selling such content? No.
Does Steam impose that devs pay Valve in order to release updates to their games (which for example means devs will not release a patch for small issues)? No.
and so on.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:09 Post subject: |
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or does steam require a monthly subscription to play online? Fuck no
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:12 Post subject: |
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Yup.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:17 Post subject: |
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http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions
| Quote: |
The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for shit value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.
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What a crock of absolute bullshit. Prices of games won't drop, they never drop, they've steadily increased over the years and this won't end just because Microsoft is trying to cut out used-game sales. Buying full PS360 titles from XBLA and PSN aren't any cheaper than buying in the stores, they're just as expensive.
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/Product/Forza-Horizon/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5309c9?nosplash=1
£39.99, same price as retail 
~edit~
Sorry, haha, I lied... stupid Sabin.
http://www.game.co.uk/en/forza-horizon-172250?pageSize=20&searchTerm=forza%20horizon
£31.99 brand new. £19.99 preowned.
SO MUCH FOR DIGITAL BEING FUCKING CHEAPER, EH MICROSCUM?
Last edited by sabin1981 on Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:22; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:19 Post subject: |
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To my previous post I'd also like to add that MS can exit the game industry anytime (they are NOT a gaming company), while Valve cannot because they haven't established themselves as anything other than a gaming company.
Which means in 10 years the Xbox servers might be down and you won't be able to play your games.
On PC even if Valve folds, which is LESS likely than Microsoft deciding games are not worth it mind you, you can still crack your games.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:25 Post subject: |
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Besides, Valve specifically said that if Steam goes down, they will make all the games you bought available for download.
Meanwhile what's Microsoft's answer to "what about my XBLA library?" is "stick to 9 year old system for that, oh, and in ~5 years we'll probably close down those servers too, tough luck, dipshits!"
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:31 Post subject: |
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how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon.
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:34 Post subject: |
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| remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
Can you access any form of DLC content on the original XBox, the kind people paid for? Not really. Guess why.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:36 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | To my previous post I'd also like to add that MS can exit the game industry anytime (they are NOT a gaming company), while Valve cannot because they haven't established themselves as anything other than a gaming company.
Which means in 10 years the Xbox servers might be down and you won't be able to play your games.
On PC even if Valve folds, which is LESS likely than Microsoft deciding games are not worth it mind you, you can still crack your games. |
Actually, much more important and likely than MS exiting the industry, they want you to buy their new shit. So they shut the old ones down; Xbox Live for the original Xbox was shut down 3 years ago, after a little over 8 years of uptime. It came out November 2001 for US, (irony bomb incoming) Feb for Japan and March for Europe+Down under.
Meanwhile, my 2002 Steam account still works mighty fine, along with the copies of HL and CS on it. I just need to download them and then I can freely launch Steam in offline mode to play them. And that HL copy is my original, boxed version from 1998. And I can still install any goddamn mod, expansion pack or whatever for it. I can also still play it and its mods online, despite the fact that it originally launched on WON and was converted to Steam later.
Comparing it to the other one, the PS2 never had any subscription nonsense, that was all entirely left up to the publishers and developers. So while there may not be that many gameservers up anymore, you can still go online with the PS2 for games that still have servers. Aside from the fact that Sony only discontinued production of the PS2 in January this year. That's 13 years of production and thus, if necessary, support for the fucker. And the PS1 got 11 years. The Xbox itself meanwhile was discontinued after a measly 6 years. |
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:40 Post subject: |
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| remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
Look into the history and play your fabulous Xbox MP games.
Just try to remember how MS dropped their Xbox after the 360 came into the picture. Never had I seen such a behaviour with other consoles. I don't think the 360 shares the horrible faith as much as the Xbox. But a company with such track record, I don't see them giving as much effort as Sony and Nindo on their old consoles. |
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:43 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:47 Post subject: |
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Hell.
I can install Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade from Steam, go offline and play it. That's a fucking 1989 game. On Steam.
Edit: just realised that I may be blowing some minds with that one. After all, remy probably has no idea that game even exists or know what Commander Keen is (also on Steam, for the record). 
I would say he probably wasn't even born then, but many people weren't and they are not that thick. Heck, I was 3 when it came out (played it by the time I was 5 though  ).
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:48 Post subject: |
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| remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/04/drm-sucks-redux-microsoft-to-nuke-msn-music-drm-keys/
You were saying?
| Quote: | | Customers who have purchased music from Microsoft's now-defunct MSN Music store are now facing a decision they never anticipated making: commit to which computers (and OS) they want to authorize forever, or give up access to the music they paid for. Why? Because Microsoft has decided that it's done supporting the service and will be turning off the MSN Music license servers by the end of this summer. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:51 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 14:54 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/04/drm-sucks-redux-microsoft-to-nuke-msn-music-drm-keys/
You were saying?
| Quote: | | Customers who have purchased music from Microsoft's now-defunct MSN Music store are now facing a decision they never anticipated making: commit to which computers (and OS) they want to authorize forever, or give up access to the music they paid for. Why? Because Microsoft has decided that it's done supporting the service and will be turning off the MSN Music license servers by the end of this summer. |
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do you know ONE SINGLE PERSON who ever bought music files from MSN music? do you even know anyone who bought zune? i know one person (zune, not msn music).
| MORPHINEUS wrote: | | remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
Look into the history and play your fabulous Xbox MP games.
Just try to remember how MS dropped their Xbox after the 360 came into the picture. Never had I seen such a behaviour with other consoles. I don't think the 360 shares the horrible faith as much as the Xbox. But a company with such track record, I don't see them giving as much effort as Sony and Nindo on their old consoles. |
nor do i have original xbox nor do i have any intent to play old shit in multiplayer when "next generation" (ps3, 360) is already coming to its end. do you?
| MORPHINEUS wrote: | | remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
Look into the history and play your fabulous Xbox MP games.
Just try to remember how MS dropped their Xbox after the 360 came into the picture. Never had I seen such a behaviour with other consoles. I don't think the 360 shares the horrible faith as much as the Xbox. But a company with such track record, I don't see them giving as much effort as Sony and Nindo on their old consoles. |
and what really are you talking about? just think for a second - same thing goes for old ps2 games, and old PC games, either severs are down or no one plays that old shit anyway.
| zmed wrote: | | remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
Can you access any form of DLC content on the original XBox, the kind people paid for? Not really. Guess why. |
what? dunno how big dlc market was in original xbox (i would say minimal to non-existent) so i dont have any idea what are you talkin about.
anyway, its funny all you caring now about old xbox games, rotfl. pc master race, ms hate etc etc, as i said before - i have no plans to buy xbone but cmon, take your heads out your asses - original xbox, backwards compatability? no one will fucking care in smth like 2-3 months into nextgen.
| Werelds wrote: | Hell.
I can install Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade from Steam, go offline and play it. That's a fucking 1989 game. On Steam.
Edit: just realised that I may be blowing some minds with that one. After all, remy probably has no idea that game even exists or know what Commander Keen is (also on Steam, for the record).
I would say he probably wasn't even born then, but many people weren't and they are not that thick. Heck, I was 3 when it came out (played it by the time I was 5 though ). |
internet dumb fucks at its best - you PROBABLY DONT KNOW THAT OLD GAME THAT I KNOW. and here we go again with that age shit, dude, really?
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Jun 2013 15:06 Post subject: |
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| remyleblau wrote: | | consolitis wrote: | | remyleblau wrote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon. |
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/04/drm-sucks-redux-microsoft-to-nuke-msn-music-drm-keys/
You were saying?
| Quote: | | Customers who have purchased music from Microsoft's now-defunct MSN Music store are now facing a decision they never anticipated making: commit to which computers (and OS) they want to authorize forever, or give up access to the music they paid for. Why? Because Microsoft has decided that it's done supporting the service and will be turning off the MSN Music license servers by the end of this summer. |
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do you know ONE SINGLE PERSON who ever bought music files from MSN music? do you even know anyone who bought zune? i know one person (zune, not msn music).
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Entirely irrelevant. One person, two... ten thousand. Your point was
| Quote: | | how stupid someone must be to think that MS will close down any servers in 5 years? seriously, cmon |
Obviously, you can see from the link that it is something they can and will do.
Pixieking
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Not to mention the fact that with the shoddy backwards compatibility of the legit 360 (surprisingly, the HACKED compatibility lists offer far greater support.. go figure....) means even if you still had your Xbox1 collection, the vast majority won't work on X360. Imagine the same thing happening when Xbox Two (
