|
|
| Page 1 of 3 |
|
|
 Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 09:04 Post subject: New System Specs - Thoughts? |
|
 |
CPU: i7-930 Bloomfield
Motherboard: MSI X-58 Pro-E
RAM: Corsair Dominator 6GB Triple Channel, 8-8-8-24, 1600
Graphics Cards: 2xeVGA GTX465 1GB
PSU: Thermaltake TR2 RX 1000W
Case: Antec 1200
CPU Cooler: Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H50 CPU Cooler
Any thoughts? In particular about the longevity of the CPU (if a year from now quad-cores are insufficient in gaming just like dual cores are now I'm going to be fucking pissed!), the 465's performance in SLI mode (originally was going to go for 460s), and the CPU cooler (first time doing this water cooling shit, but this one is no maintenance and seemed easy enough to install).
Final price-tag is at $1680 from a different, local supplier.
My current system (upgrading because dual-core is getting raped by every new game  )
E8400 at 3.0GHz (can't overclock for shit with my board)
MSI Mobo
4 GB Dual Channel
GTX 285 (randomly black-screens, RMA'ed twice already, sick of it).
650 Watt Thermaltake PSU
Thanks! 
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24555
Location: Your Mom
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 09:13 Post subject: |
|
|
Well picked system if you ask me. Is the price difference between H50 and H70 huge?
As for quad-cores becoming obsolete in gaming within a year or two: not even the slightest hint of a chance. PC gaming won't require quad-cores for another couple of year, unfortunately (for those of us with quad-core CPU's). 2.5 cores seems to be the sweet spot (ie. most games are happy with two cores, some games run better on three cores but so far there are no games that take advantage of four or more cores).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 09:43 Post subject: |
|
|
That's some sweet looking specs.
Are you sure about 1000W PSU, I mean do you really need 1000W even with SLI?
"Quantum mechanics is actually, contrary to it's reputation, unbeliveably simple, once you take the physics out."
Scott Aaronson | chiv wrote: | | thats true you know. newton didnt discover gravity. the apple told him about it, and then he killed it. the core was never found. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 09:49 Post subject: |
|
|
The 465s wont be a good choice unless you plan to unlock them to be gtx470s and overclock em.
Otherwise the GTX460 sli route would be better.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 09:51 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 09:54 Post subject: |
|
|
In my opinion the GTX460 is the better card (benchmarks tend to agree - 1GB version at least), why did you change your mind and go for the 465?
The 465s are supposed to be phased out, as far as I know, they perform worse and they are less efficient in terms of power requirements and temperature...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24555
Location: Your Mom
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 10:22 Post subject: |
|
|
| Mortibus wrote: | every recent game i throw at it using all my cores from what i can see, mafia 2, gta4 (3,5) dirt2 etc
2.5 cores? srsly? same pc config only quad cpu and i get 20-30 fps boost in most games against 3ghz dc, hell even if my quad is at stock speed
i know it's nice to live in denial but dc just doesn't cut it anymore when we talk about  ports  |
Sorry Mortibus, you're the one that take things for granted. 
http://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62975
| Quote: | Found a page that benchmark various games on 1,2,3,4,5,6 cores.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/07/05/how-many-cpu-cores-do-games-need/2
Crysis use two cores, more cores does nothing
MW2 use three cores, more cores does nothing
MW1 use two cores, more cores does nothing
BFBC2 use two cores on ATI, 3-4 on nVidia
Stalker: CoP use two cores on ATI, one on nVidia
Dirt2 use two cores
DoW2 use two cores
| Quote: | Quote:
Conclusion
For those of you with a dual-core CPU, in most games it offers "enough" performance (at least in terms of core count), although it's clear that won't last much longer. While some developers are sticking with engines that aren't multi-threaded, if there's one thing clear from our testing it is that games are starting to make better use of more cores. At the moment, three cores appears to be what games are happiest using (aside from Dirt 2). |
|
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 10:42 Post subject: |
|
|
The following utterly rape my dual core system:
BF:BC2, APB, GTA 4
As for why I picked the 465's vs. 460's - my local supplier won't have any 460's in-stock until a week from now, I want to get this upgrade done this week for reasons too complex to explain here. Is the difference really that staggering between them? Doesn't seem so in benchmarks, maybe a 2-3 fps at most.
Good feedback guys, thanks!
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 11:36 Post subject: |
|
|
Well I suppose if you don't have a choice and the price is very similar, the GTX465 will be good enough, in terms of performance they are pretty close. But the 460 is just a much more polished product all around. Then again there's talk about unlocking 465 to a 470, don't know much about that though.
@Frant
This report of theirs differs significantly from my own experiences, so I don't even consider the benchmarks they have there. Maybe a dual core with an i7 architecture and very high clocks can cut it, but in any case, there is just no point in buying a dual core machine unless you are on a really tight budget. Even so, Id still probably consider saving up for a quad...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 11:51 Post subject: |
|
|
| Mortibus wrote: | | every recent game i throw at it using all my cores from what i can see, mafia 2, gta4 (3,5) dirt2 etc |
No. You'd do just as well with a higher-clocked triple or even dual core, the only thing that's better using a quad core is the minimum FPS you get in some of the heavy games. Mafia 2 isn't one of them, that game is hardly taxing on your PC unless you have APEX on high without an NVIDIA card. GTA4 is a terrible port which won't even run fluidly on a 5 GHz dodeka-core with everything turned up, and Dirt 2 really doesn't require more than a 3 GHz dual-core. Some links were already provided and there's plenty of benchmarks showing that.
Terrible choice, the GTX 460 does just as good if not better, but is a lot cheaper, quieter, cooler and less power consuming. GTX 465, 470 and 480 are horrible products, much like a 5830. In fact, the 460 is FASTER than the 465, just check the reviews - it always matches the 465 or surpasses it. And under game load it does so with almost 30 degrees less, almost 90W less power consumption and a few dB less noise.
You're overspending like crazy here, really. Even with dual 465's 750W is more than enough, I'd even go as far as recommending a 650-700W unit that has an 80+ silver or better rating, as those will last longer than this rebadged Thermaltake unit 
You should check out the big hardware post. The 2 choices I picked out above are your only really terrible choices, the rest is fine - assuming you use your PC for stuff other than gaming.
If you only use it for gaming and some forum trolling, your CPU is major overkill as well.
Edit: just saw your note about your supplier not having them in stock. I highly recommend you to temporarily use a different card (your old one perhaps?) until you can get these 460's. Honestly, it's worth it.
Edit #2: 2 460's consume about as much power as a single GTX 480 btw, and if you check the Bit-Tech article or one of the many 480 reviews out there, you'll see that that means you go just over 500W if you were using one of Intel's Extreme CPU's. You're using a much less consuming CPU, so you'll stay under that 500W.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 12:57 Post subject: |
|
|
The GTX 465 if you get the right brand, i forget what ones are all GTX470 PCB.. can be core unlocked with ease to be a GTX470, the value of buying it then over the gtx460 is clear.
So if he's going to do that then it's a good choice will be much faster for only a small amount more.
If not doing that the go for the GTX460 i say.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 13:03 Post subject: |
|
|
No, because even with those cards it's still a hit-and-miss. You might get a few unlocked cores (at the cost of additional heat), but you might very well also brick your card. You got about 25 to 30% chance to unlock it, in all other cases you either won't get it unlocked or you brick the card. There's a reason why these chips are not sold as 470's. There's several threads on enthusiast forums around the web, they all have the same results. If you're very lucky you get it unlocked, but the risk is just not worth it.
To clarify that a bit more: GF100 originally has 512 SP's (shader units, cuda cores, whatever you like to call them). As of today, the amount of chips they get off a wafer that can actually run with all 512 enabled is like one in 10000 - that's the reason why the top model is the GTX 480 with (you guessed it) 480 SP's. The GTX 470 and 465 are made with chips that can't even get 480 SP's to run properly, and as such they disable even more SP's. You could argue that if you had a BIOS you could unlock a GTX 480 to become the proper fully-fledged Fermi, but like I said: there is a good, a VERY good reason why these chips are locked in the first place.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 13:34 Post subject: |
|
|
| pwerelds wrote: | | Mortibus wrote: | | every recent game i throw at it using all my cores from what i can see, mafia 2, gta4 (3,5) dirt2 etc |
No. You'd do just as well with a higher-clocked triple or even dual core, the only thing that's better using a quad core is the minimum FPS you get in some of the heavy games. Mafia 2 isn't one of them, that game is hardly taxing on your PC unless you have APEX on high without an NVIDIA card. GTA4 is a terrible port which won't even run fluidly on a 5 GHz dodeka-core with everything turned up, and Dirt 2 really doesn't require more than a 3 GHz dual-core. Some links were already provided and there's plenty of benchmarks showing that.. |
i tested mafia 2 on both pc's with exact same settings and i get this results:
dc@3ghz+8800gt average fps 1680-1050 all high af@16 aa@off physx@off average fps in benchmark 26fps in appartment 30-33 fps, outside 35fps
qc@3ghz+8800gt average fps 1680-1050 all high af@16 aa@off physx@off average fps in benchmark 40fps in appartment 45 fps, outside jumping between 45-60 fps
evga precision tool reports cpu usage during gameplay as 80-90%
same goes for gta and dirt both using intensively at least 3 cores all the time, maybe it's nvidia optimization that forces to use xtra cpu power, i simply dunno
not taking out of my arse or some unknown websites but out of my own expirence
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24555
Location: Your Mom
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 14:11 Post subject: |
|
|
@Slizza
They must've gotten very lucky, just Google for it and you'll find plenty of threads with people bricking their card. And with bricking I mean properly bricking, you can't flash the original BIOS back anymore.
@Mortibus
I call bullshit on that, how the hell can your FPS inside be lower than your FPS outside? That's not what I experienced at all. I'll reinstall the demo and check that at the same resolution, I should also see significant changes as I'm only on a dual core. I'll even set the game to single core to see what it does.
The game really isn't optimised because it doesn't require much hardware, and the benchmark is bloody terrible as the average means absolutely nothing, the minimum is because of 2 glitches in the sequence they use.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 14:29 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:23 Post subject: |
|
|
Another quick question -
Just noticed that the PSU I settled on (linked above) isn't technically SLI certified. That going to be an issue, or is that just marketing bullshit?
Also, I was playing the idea of running the 2x465's (or 460's depending on how this turns out) in SLI, and using my black-screening GTX 285 in the third PCI-E slot as the dedicated PhysX processor. Should I bother or am I better off just throwing em in SLI and having them share the PhysX load (if that's even how it works).
Pretty much an SLI noob - have never been able to afford it before now, so somewhat lost 
Also recall reading something about having to run a game at 1 fps less than refresh rate to eliminate micro-stuttering present on SLI systems. Was that bullshit or did it have some validity to it?
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:25 Post subject: |
|
|
| Immunity wrote: | | Just noticed that the PSU I settled on (linked above) isn't technically SLI certified. That going to be an issue, or is that just marketing bullshit? |
Marketing bullshit. Read my post, you're better off buying a lower-wattage unit with better rating, and you save some money in the process.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24555
Location: Your Mom
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:32 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:34 Post subject: |
|
|
Even in sli mode physx will run on just 1 card.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:38 Post subject: |
|
|
| Slizza wrote: | | Even in sli mode physx will run on just 1 card. |
Right - but wouldn't it be advantageous to have the PhysX being run on the GTX 285, while the 2x460's in SLI mode focus exclusively on rendering?
I feel guilty just throwing my current GTX 285 out just because it black-screens while rendering. I figure maybe it can process the PhysX shit stable enough, and put my 460's to work rendering the image (hopefully with no system instability).
I can never be free, because the shackles I wear can't be touched or be seen.
i9-9900k, MSI MPG-Z390 Gaming Pro Carbon, 32GB DDR4 @ 3000, eVGA GTX 1080 DT, Samsung 970 EVO Plus nVME 1TB
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:45 Post subject: |
|
|
| Mortibus wrote: | call it what u want, i can invite u to my place (no homo) for demonstration 
in our days optimized means doesn't run like shiat, so on a scale of gta4 optimization it's optimized 
here feast your eyes
*imgbreak*
second pc clocked to 2.6ghz coz i had some instability issues as of lately so i clocked it down, difference between 2.6 and 3ghz was 1.2 fps anyway |
Right.
Like Frant says, that thing only has 1 meg of L2 cache versus the 2x2 on the Q8300. Next, notice how the top FPS barely differs? That can be explained by the few hundreds of MHz's you're missing. Last, the benchmark is flawed - it has serious rendering issues, and the average that comes out of it is pointless.
@ Immunity: Hardly worth it, even in a game like Mafia 2 (with tweaking the cloth crap) it only adds a few FPS over just the two cards. Meanwhile you're running a third card, cluttering up your system, adding more noise and with a good chance it'll break completely sooner or later. Not worth the trouble tbh
GPU PhysX is still only used in a handful of games, and all of those games have plenty of rendering power with just a 460 or 5850 or something similar. Considering you're going for a much better setup, you're never gonna run into problems. PhysX is getting more common, GPU PhysX isn't. Most of the crap in PhysX (also in Mafia 2) is still handled on the CPU because they simply can't do it on the GPU.
Last edited by Werelds on Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:53; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:48 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slizza
Posts: 2345
Location: Bulgaria
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 15:52 Post subject: |
|
|
| Immunity wrote: | | Slizza wrote: | | Even in sli mode physx will run on just 1 card. |
Right - but wouldn't it be advantageous to have the PhysX being run on the GTX 285, while the 2x460's in SLI mode focus exclusively on rendering?
I feel guilty just throwing my current GTX 285 out just because it black-screens while rendering. I figure maybe it can process the PhysX shit stable enough, and put my 460's to work rendering the image (hopefully with no system instability). |
Your set with the 2x GTX460
there will likely be a advantage to having the dedicated card yes.
But if you can play the game all smooth anyway then it's just wasting electricity.
Sell the GTX285?
or keep it as a backup gpu.
Corsair 750D :: 750W DPS-G:: Asus x370 PRO :: R7 1800X ::16gb DDR4 :: GTX 1070::525gb SSD::Coolermaster 240MM AIO::
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24555
Location: Your Mom
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24555
Location: Your Mom
|
| Posted: Wed, 18th Aug 2010 17:20 Post subject: |
|
|
I give up. You're GPU-bound in both tests and the test is bugged as well due to those min FPS hitches.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 1 of 3 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.8 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
|
 |
|
