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-=Cartoon=-
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Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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 Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 12:49 Post subject: Homeworld 3.... |
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Ok now that i have your attention.. no wonder we are getting SHITE half assed games
In a relic interview
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57082
This made me sad
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Shack: I'm a huge fan of the Homeworld series. I know you can't say a single thing about it--
Jonny Ebbert: [laughs]
Shack: --but maybe I could phrase it this way. In this economy, and considering all the risks of hardcore PC game development, can we ever really expect to see a true Homeworld sequel? Is that even a reality now?
Jonny Ebbert: Anything's possible. If I went back in a time machine and I told you there's going to be a Fallout 3, and it's going to sell three or four million copies on Xbox and PS3, what would you reaction be? I mean, up until that point Fallout was a very, very niche cult game.
And it came back, and now it's going head to head with Gears of War. And if I went back and told you it was going to go head to head with Gears of War 2, and sell about as many copies, you'd be like, "Whaaat?" [laughs] That's a good one!
So anything is possible. It didn't come back in the exact same form, but it came back in a very cool form. The original Homeworld was our first franchise, it put us on the map as a studio. It's ours now--we own the IP now, so it's always going to have a very special place, and we're always looking for opportunities to do something with it. But it has to be an opportunity that makes sense, and that's going to compete in today's market.
hack: So it wouldn't have the true 3D, shift-click movement controls, but...[/b]
Jonny Ebbert: [b]I think that might be too complex for most people. I mean, maybe not. Maybe we could have a breakthrough in the control scheme where it's easier to play and more accessible. But at the same time, it might be like the equivalent of Fallout 3, where it feels like Homeworld, but it's kind of a different style of game. Where it's way more accessible to people, a little more exciting. We would probably want to take it in that direction. If we were working on something. [laughs] |
Honestly... relic think its to complex to hold shift ???
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34968
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 12:56 Post subject: |
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The current situation is that games need to sell so the developers and publishers can profit, this means games are made simpler and easier and also scaled over several platforms such as PS3/X360/PC each with it's different strength and weakness which depending on the lead platform (X360 usuall) affects the other platforms in various ways.
Games are also streamlined to be easier to get into and just "have fun" such as casual titles like Spore and Sims proved by selling millions of copies (Sims 2 is still selling and getting expansion updates.)
MMO market is also changing due to that, everyone basically looks at WoW due to it's huge subscriber base (10 million people or so) and tries to be like that but most fail pretty bad or fall behind quickly. (Hellgate tried to mix SP/MP elements and MMO elements and fell, Age of Conan and Warhammer has lost a lot of players already and so on.)
Bit hard to explain but I guess it's more obvious to those used to the previous generations of games.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 12:58 Post subject: |
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There is no money in smart people. It's the idiots who pay the most. So keeping people dumb is the best way to make money. Hooray for capitalism.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 13:07 Post subject: |
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You guys make me sad  Don't know what is worse for me, the fact that games are getting dumber and dumber with each release, or that I find some of these dumber games enjoyable.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 13:10 Post subject: |
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meanwhile..
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Stardock Opening Second Studio, Plans New PC RPG
Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire, Demigod) is planning a $900,000 expansion of its headquarters to accomodate development of a new PC roleplaying game.
The expansion will create some 53 jobs |
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 14:32 Post subject: |
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I Dunno has relic had some CEO change or something?
Dawn of war2, no bases gameplay now this shit about streamlining games?
If they felt no bases were so revolutionary they should have put it as a MP OPTION not force it onto people that likes the first game imo.
Like some new mode where u get faster action and where your single base building is the spawn area for all units.
Bleh, feels like all the game companies are giving up their originality to get fast profit in shortcuts.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 14:45 Post subject: |
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Relic have lost the magic, plz no more shit from you.
Failworld 3, Space tactical RTS in 2D.
And he really likes to dream about the Fallout 3 console sales. Their biggest goal will certainly be to find a shitty gamepad-friendly control scheme, so that they can cash in on consoles. And you can imagine what it will be to the PC strategy gamers ...
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 14:49 Post subject: |
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They are just dumb, nothing else. They see that dumbed down fps (gears of war) and dumbed down frp (fallout 3) are making a lot of money so they thing that dumbed down rts should also make a lot of money.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 14:52 Post subject: |
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The last space strategy I really enjoyed was Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, and it appears it will be last one for a long time...
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:06 Post subject: |
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I swear to god, every single "blarg gaming is so dumbed down because of consoles" and "PC gaming is dead" thread I see on these boards could be copy/pasted from 15 years ago. It's the same old shit.
I think that a lot of people who make these arguments just want to seem more "hardcore," or, ridiculously enough, "smarter" or more "intellectual" than other gamers. And aside from people like that, there are people who want to seem "old school," because that's trendy these days.
As far as I'm concerned, we're in a terrific period in gaming history. The output of high-quality games in recent years amazes me. And certainly, I don't think games coming out these days are notable fun on average than games from any other period (and this is coming from a golden-age 80s arcade diehard).
For instance, Fallout 3 isn't nearly as complicated (or perhaps convoluted) or deep as the old Fallouts, and although I'm a huge diehard fan of the originals and have been playing them for many years, I don't think they're really more purely fun than Fallout 3 in any measurable degree. And seeing as how videogames are about fun, that's really all that matters.
I think that people who do find it, and other recent games, to be so horrible and so much less fun than the old ones, simply put too much thought into their games, and when you do that, are you really having fun playing games anymore, or are you just trying to prove to yourself how smart you are?
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Epsilon
Dr. Strangelove
Posts: 9240
Location: War Room
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:27 Post subject: |
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| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | meanwhile..
| Quote: |
Stardock Opening Second Studio, Plans New PC RPG
Stardock (Sins of a Solar Empire, Demigod) is planning a $900,000 expansion of its headquarters to accomodate development of a new PC roleplaying game.
The expansion will create some 53 jobs |
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A shining beacon of hope. |
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:30 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | are you really having fun playing games anymore, or are you just trying to prove to yourself how smart you are? |
Why should these be mutually exclusive?
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:35 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | Cedge wrote: | | are you really having fun playing games anymore, or are you just trying to prove to yourself how smart you are? |
Why should these be mutually exclusive? |
Why can't they ever be?
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:37 Post subject: |
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I never said never. You are the one that comes here with the big talk. Why should we dumb down our brain in order to have fun?
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:45 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | snip...
I think that people who do find it, and other recent games, to be so horrible and so much less fun than the old ones, simply put too much thought into their games, and when you do that, are you really having fun playing games anymore, or are you just trying to prove to yourself how smart you are? |
I'm sorry but I want my games to be engaging, not just pushing buttons for imaginary enjoyment. I didn't enjoy Fallout 3, because it was a bad shooter and not an interesting RPG. I enjoyed CoD4 immensely because it was a polished shooter and I enjoyed The Witcher too for its RPG qualities, so its not that I'm particularly genre biased.
Recently I've been playing Jagged Alliance 2 for the first time, and I've been having a blast with it. If the "modernized" fallout franchise can't compete with a game from (when?) '98, what does that say about the PC market? Gamedevs are cutting corners and appealing to the lowest common denominator these days, thats a fact. It's not about quantifying "fun" on some scale that can fit everyone, it's about peoples tastes. When Bethesdas newest multimillion dollar success story puts me off after one hour with it, a guy who loves both shooting and RPGs, what does that say about their target demographic?
FFS their "marrying" of TBS with FPS consisted of a superpower you could use every 15 seconds. Talk about not giving your game design any thought.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:50 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | I never said never. |
And I never said that they can't go together perfectly well. As I stated, I'm a long-time Fallout fan. I love complex wargaming, deep RPGs, all that hardcore shit. But I also love simple games. I like both Europa Universalis and Civilization, and Super Mario (which actually has fairly deep platforming mechanics, though I'm sure many here won't appreciate that).
I like checkers and chess. And Go, for that matter.
| Quote: | | You are the one that comes here with the big talk. |
Big talk? I said that PC gamers bitch too much about games that aren't complex enough to suit their tastes. Are you seriously going to tell me that isn't true?
| Quote: | | Why should we dumb down our brain in order to have fun? |
Why can't we do both?
You never, ever hear fans of simpler games criticizing fans of more complex games, or insisting that all games should be simple, or claiming that complex games and people who play them are ruining their hobby, despite both the hardcore and the mainstream sectors of the industry both being perfectly healthy.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:54 Post subject: |
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| syke247 wrote: | | I'm sorry but I want my games to be engaging, not just pushing buttons for imaginary enjoyment. |
And there is your problem. You think that anyone who enjoys something that you don't, isn't actually enjoying it.
Guess what? You're pushing buttons playing games, too. It's all imaginary, bud.
And don't try to give me any shit about how your brain (or rather, certain parts of your brain) is more engaged by the games you play and that this makes them better, and shit like that. Because let me tell you, that surfers and mountain climbers enjoy their hobbies too, although that engages a completely different part of both their mentality and their physicality than playing Sins of a Solar Empire does, but are you going to tell me that those hobbies are any less valid than videogaming? Pssh.
| Quote: | | It's not about quantifying "fun" on some scale that can fit everyone, it's about peoples tastes. |
So why don't you just stick to the games that fit your tastes, and that you enjoy, and quit bitching about everybody elses?
| Quote: | | When Bethesdas newest multimillion dollar success story puts me off after one hour with it, a guy who loves both shooting and RPGs, what does that say about their target demographic? |
That you simply aren't it, I suppose. But it doesn't give you any justification in criticizing people who do enjoy it.
What the fuck kind of question is that, anyway? You personally don't like the game, and you're asking broad questions about what is to be said for people that do?
Enormous conceit detected.
Last edited by Cedge on Thu, 5th Feb 2009 15:59; edited 2 times in total
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adaml75
Posts: 204
Location: Burkina Faso
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:00 Post subject: |
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| adaml75 wrote: | You can make a very, very hardcore games for console players. Just look at japanese Strategy RPGs (like Disgaea, although this one is both simple and easy compared to some others). So the platform is not a problem (well, maybe for RTS, but calling them "strategy" games is false anyway  ) |
Fully agreed. There are games of astounding depth from Japan on all sorts of platforms, everything from handhelds to PC to consoles.
And indeed, blaming it on consoles is not fair at all, and vastly oversimplifies things, but PC gamers just like having things to bitch about (and this has been true for decades; arguing is just an integral part of nerd culture), and consoles are an easy target.
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:04 Post subject: |
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I think I can safely say, when we blame it on consoles, we actually mean the target demographic, not the hardware itself.
The hardware gets blamed when we get bad looking ports.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:11 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | I think I can safely say, when we blame it on consoles, we actually mean the target demographic, not the hardware itself. |
Blaming them for what? Having fun and playing games?
If PC gamers would just find the games they enjoy, play them, and stop feeling so victimized all the time, I think we'd all be happy.
I'm a guy who plays everything from Final Fantasy (well...not anymore. Series tanked over a decade ago. But I'm just using it as an example) to The Witcher, from Burnout to Live for Speed, from Tower Defense to Europa Universalis, from TimeSplitters to Red Orchestra. I think it's safe to say that none of you, no matter what your tastes are, are having more fun playing games than I am, or enjoy the hobby more than I do.
I find the games that I like, I play them, and life is good. I don't convince myself that I'm a victim of any other market demographics tastes, and that there aren't games out there that suit my tastes, as well as practically any tastes imaginable (and if you literally can't find a single game out that suits you at any given time, then it's obviously an idea so niche that you can't blame the market for not providing it).
Try it sometime.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:15 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | And there is your problem. You think that anyone who enjoys something that you don't, isn't actually enjoying it.
...
So why don't you just stick to the games that fit your tastes, and that you enjoy, and quit bitching about everybody elses?
| syke wrote: | | ..what does that say about their target demographic? |
That you simply aren't it, I suppose. But it doesn't give you any justification in criticizing people who do enjoy it.
What the fuck kind of question is that, anyway? You personally don't like the game, and you're asking broad questions about what is to be said for people that do? |
No, I think it is more of a failure on my part to understand how anyone could honestly have fun with fallout 3. I don't care what you like and what you want to play, as long as theres room for niche markets and new types of play alongside that - and there really isn't, its too much of a risk when you already have a demographic who'll take anything they can get. Yeah, no shit its conceited, I fucking hate other people dude. Other people are idiots.
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| Quote: | | Big talk? I said that PC gamers bitch too much about games that aren't complex enough to suit their tastes. Are you seriously going to tell me that isn't true? |
You didn't only say that, you also said that "smart ppl lulz" shouldn't complain about missed opportunities, franchise ruining games and console ports because "lol jst hav fun you guise"
You also said that somehow us pc gamers that generally like more complex play, are very worried about how "smart we feel" when we're playing a game, and go to great lengths to follow trends such as "old school gaming" and "being hardcore". Which as you know, if you are like you pretend to be, is a complete load of bullshit.
| Quote: | | You never, ever hear fans of simpler games criticizing fans of more complex games, or insisting that all games should be simple, or claiming that complex games and people who play them are ruining their hobby, despite both the hardcore and the mainstream sectors of the industry both being perfectly healthy. |
The reason that console gamers don't complain about overly complex games is that there are loads of what they want out there. Obviously you don't complain if you don't see a problem, and if 50% of all games were TBS, oh yes they would complain. Some of us PC gamers would love if the industry took some more risks with compelling game mechanics, niche markets and so, because today it is only indie games that do that (and Stardock). What was the last TBS game you remember playing? Silent Storm 2 from what, 2000?
Last edited by syke247 on Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:24; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:15 Post subject: |
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When 90% of PC games are console ports, I am victimized.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:33 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't care what you like and what you want to play, as long as theres room for niche markets and new types of play alongside that - and there really isn't, its too much of a risk when you already have a demographic who'll take anything they can get. |
There is room for every niche and market, if that market is big enough for the industry to be able to make money catering to it. If they aren't big niches, then you can't blame the industry for not doing so.
I like black and white movies, but I don't expect them to make every movie in black and white. I don't like entitlement.
| Quote: | | Yeah, no shit its conceited, I fucking hate other people dude. Other people are idiots. |
Ooh, you're so edgy.
| Quote: | | You didn't only say that, you also said that "smart ppl lulz" shouldn't complain about missed opportunities, franchise ruining games and console ports because "lol jst hav fun you guise" |
Missed opportunities? Whatever. A game that you don't want to play, is a game that you don't want to play. Simple as that.
And let's not start on franchises, because there are plenty of others who would claim that sequels in general are and always have choked the industry.
Also, quit with the chanspeak or whatever that "guise" shit is supposed to resemble.
| Quote: | | The reason that console gamers don't complain about overly complex games is that there are loads of what they want out there. Obviously you don't complain if you don't see a problem, and if 50% of all games were TBS, oh yes they would complain. Some of us PC gamers would love if the industry took some more risks with compelling game mechanics, niche markets and so, because today it is only indie games that do that (and Stardock). What was the last TBS game you remember playing? Silent Storm 2 from what, 2000? |
As I said before, can you blame the industry for not catering to every niche?
| iNatan wrote: | | When 90% of PC games are console ports, I am victimized. |
Care to show me that math?  Seriously, no need for hyperbole.
And no, you're not a victim. You're niche, which is not entitled to anything. The industry does not owe you special consideration.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 16:47 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: |
And no, you're not a victim. You're niche, which is not entitled to anything. The industry does not owe you special consideration. |
Oh now that's just stupid. Because the guy likes depth to his games, that makes him a niche and something to be scoffed at and ignored? Something to have the dumbed-down, ruined, titles fobbed off on? You can't seriously say that "streamlining" (euphemism for "we're going to dumb down so far that even the Halo fanboys can play it) Homeworld and Dawn of War were GOOD decisions?
I'm sorry mate, I usually do agree with most of what you say... but you just forever lost all credibility.
Yes, I love Fallout 3. Yes, I love Deus Ex 2. Yet I *know* it was the console-gaming demographic that forced the respective developers to "streamline" those games in favour of generating more sales from the ritalin generation.
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| Posted: Thu, 5th Feb 2009 17:09 Post subject: |
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Heh, edgy. The assumption that the market is fair and will balance out is not a good assumption. The problem with the mainsteam is that they lower the quality expected of game developers, because they're willing to buy anything that has had an ad on tv, or is a sequel.
When game developers can get away with less, they do so. This is because people (in this case, game developers) are idiots. It eventually lowers the standard for everyone playing games (like it has with you), and will end in a stale medium that could've been great, if people had demanded more. This again is because people (in this case the people who buy crap), are idiots.
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