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 Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 22:59 Post subject: Worth upgrading? |
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Well its almost Christmas and I want a get myself some presents. Is it worth going from e6850 and 8800GT to Q9650 and 260GTX (4870 perhaps)? My system served me well for over a year now, but i can feel the strain on some newer games. Prices on VC are falling, where you can get 260 for 199 now. Im playing on 1650 x 1050 so I dont think i need those higher end cards. I was looking at extremes Quads but i just didnt see the justification for the price/performance, and im not a mad overclocker that i need those unlocked muliplyers, i just OC a bit where i feel the heat/performance/stability is satisfactory to me. I was also looking at ATI's since they really stepped up their game, but im kind of scared off by their drivers and people's complaints about ingame problems. Was also looking at i7's but I dont want to upgrade my whole system since DDR3 is kind of expensive right now, plus the new mobos.
The only game that requires quad (AFAIK) is GTA IV which runs pretty shitty on anything, but I want to be a bit future proof since more and more games will start supporting quads, plus many programs thus going for the best quad available that is not extreme seems reasonable to me.
Thanks for any input.
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| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 23:01 Post subject: |
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Uh.
One word:
FUCKINGHELLYESITISWORTHIT!
The GTX260 is worth two (and then some..) 8800GTs -- and the Q9650, now that Quads are becoming more useful, would be glorious - especially when clocked. The GTX260 spanks the 4850, but the 4870 goes toe-to-toe with it and the 4870X2 is currently the most powerful card you can buy.
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| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 23:08 Post subject: |
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Heh thats the response i wanted to hear, Thanks! As I said i dont think i need 4870X2 yet since my monitor doesnt support that high of resolution and 8800GT handles it well, so I think GTX260 should be plenty. Plus its cheaper than 4870 1 Gb version.
I was ATI fan but then they fell behind Nvidia by a mile, but know they pretty much caught up in terms of HW but not in drivers (or as i hear). It seems like every new game has problems with ati cards, and then people have to wait for new ati drivers, where with nvidia i had no problems at all with drivers, every game worked as it should from the beginning.
Hows your own experience with ati, sabin? No problems at all, no weird shit going on in games?
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 23:12 Post subject: |
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I wish I could say "no problems at all" ... but that'd be a lie. I sometimes get a few issues (older games mainly, nothing recent) with CTDs and random atiumdag.dll/etc crashes. I wish to God I knew why, but each new ATi driver seems to abandon support for xxx amount of older titles, while at the same time - fixing issues with another xxx amount of older titles.
I've not had ANY issues with recent games, though. Shadows are ugly as sin in GTA4, but that's a global bug.
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| Posted: Sat, 13th Dec 2008 23:53 Post subject: |
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where are you from Krest and what sort of price can you get the Q9650 for? ..because i have just had a quick look and the price of the quad in the UK is over £400!! for that price you could have a Core i7 CPU AND an X58 motherboard!
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, MSI RTX 5070 Ti Ventus 3X OC , Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008 00:04 Post subject: |
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I live in Ca, I use newegg.com for reference. My friend's dad works at intel so he gets the CPUS for half the price. On newegg q9650 is more than $500, he gets it for 260 i believe. Same with i7s and extremes. But as i said I dont think total upgrade is worth it right now. I have 6 gigs of ddr2 and i want it to be 6 on vista 64, so the cheapest ddr3 right is about 250 for 6 gigs, plus new mobo, and the processor. Im planning to spend about 500-600 on VC and the CPU.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008 05:31 Post subject: |
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You can get GTX 260 core216 factory overclocked cheaper than HD 4870 1GB. The new 260 is also better than HD 4870 1GB, it's pretty much as fast as GTX280, but much cheaper. I think it's the new 8800GT with price/performance ratio. Don't buy ATI, there isn't a single reason to get one, since price isn't in ATI's favor anymore. If you get ATI you'll always feel like having inferior product, believe me, I had so many ATIs 
C2D E6750 @ 3.2Ghz, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 4-4-4-12, GeForce GTX 260 c216 OC 896MB, 3.2TB, Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Xbox 360 Elite, PS2 Slim, Xbox
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| Posted: Sun, 14th Dec 2008 22:15 Post subject: |
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Yeah I also think nvidia so far is more reliable, but I wanted to try something new. I was looking at those 4850x2, and tomsHW says those kick ass even on par with 280 in some cases. But im worried about SLI since those are two cards stuck together, so if SLI is not supported im stuck with 1 4850. Maybe i'll just wait out till the next gen of VCs and just get the CPU for now, until something like 8800GT but next genish comes along from either company.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Dec 2008 00:13 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Actually, the 4850 *is* the 8800GT-equiv (at least in terms of price for performance ... on performance basis alone, it's the equivalent of the 9800GTX+) I guess it all depends on where you shop, to be honest.
If you're happy with your current GPU, my ultimate recommendation would be to sink all your cash into an i7 platform--- for instant performance boosting AND future-proofing. I'm pretty sure others will agree with me on this  |
Really? I thought 4830 was 8800gt's equivalent, fuck so many cards to chose from with no clear cut winner. You might be right though, should maybe instead of buying VC now, spend those money on i7s, mobo, and ddr3, and wait for the new line of VCs to show up.
Which i7 CPU and Mobo are you getting Big_Gun? Id personally probably go for i7 940, or 920 even though intel made sure they are not super overclockable, I heard nice things from people who tried to OC them.
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Dec 2008 00:25 Post subject: |
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I mean equivalent in terms of power/cost. The 4830 is just an underclocked, and Shader-gimped, 4850. I really wouldn't recomment it to anyone unless they were on a budget.
Definitely go for an i7 kit, especially if you're gaming ok on your 88GT. The longer you wait with GPUs, the cheaper they become as new ones supersede the "old"
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Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
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| Posted: Mon, 15th Dec 2008 04:49 Post subject: |
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| Krest wrote: | | sabin1981 wrote: | Actually, the 4850 *is* the 8800GT-equiv (at least in terms of price for performance ... on performance basis alone, it's the equivalent of the 9800GTX+) I guess it all depends on where you shop, to be honest.
If you're happy with your current GPU, my ultimate recommendation would be to sink all your cash into an i7 platform--- for instant performance boosting AND future-proofing. I'm pretty sure others will agree with me on this |
Really? I thought 4830 was 8800gt's equivalent, fuck so many cards to chose from with no clear cut winner. You might be right though, should maybe instead of buying VC now, spend those money on i7s, mobo, and ddr3, and wait for the new line of VCs to show up.
Which i7 CPU and Mobo are you getting Big_Gun? Id personally probably go for i7 940, or 920 even though intel made sure they are not super overclockable, I heard nice things from people who tried to OC them. |
I bought the Asus P6T Deluxe. Not the one with that Palm thingie. I just don't think i would ever use it.
As for the CPU, I got the 920. It was too much of a price jump to go up to the 940. Although, if i knew someone that worked at intel and could get stuff for half cost. . . but still. . . i think that 920 will be plenty for me for a loooong time. I have been reading people OC'ing those to 3.8 ghz. At which point, even with a GTX 280, the graphics card becomes a bottleneck for the CPU. . . so i read. I dunno if i will even bother overclocking it at first to be honest. I think it will be hell fast as is. But, I bought a decent CPU cooler and case in case I decide to. I really had no intention of building another PC. My original plan was to just buy stuff to build my son a new one... and then i got to reading about the i7 and decided I would like to try those suckers out. I want to see how Photoshop C4 works with that CPU/GPU powering it.
Here's the case I bought: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=240&Itemid=1
I love my full tower Thermaltake Armor case witht he big ass fan in the side. . . until i need to work on my puter. I like the looks of that Cooler Mastercase especially for the money. . . it has all the features and then some that i want. Excellent price on it. hope it doesnt disappoint. if it does, I'll just leep my tower. Lol.
EDIT: Actually, the palm thing for the P6t deluxe does sound cool. . . but I was just trying to trim a bit of cash off and it wasnt something i thought I really needed or had to have.
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 00:58 Post subject: |
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Thats some nice stuff there Big, what VC you have/bought? I decided not to get i7 for now since i hear 35nm CPUs are already in process and ddr3 is a bit expensive now and not that great compared to good ddr2. Plus not many games will utilize the whole four cores, but by the time they start doing it prices should come down considerably.
Well ordered q9550 and gtx260 216 cores. Decided on q9550 instead of 650 because to me 200Mhz increase doesnt worth 100 dollars, and my ddr2 will be the limit for how much i can OC, so q9550 should do quite nicely. Also decided to get the VC since i looked at all the reviews as TomsHW, anadtech, and techpowerup and it seems like its a pretty good performance increase from 8800GT (or 9800GT since thats what they used). Plus evga step up program should allow me to upgrade to something better if it comes along, instead of waiting for the next best thing, i can enjoy it now and then go for something better when it comes out.
Will report on how much better it is once i get my components, especially GTA IV. Right now im getting about 41 fps on stock e6850 and a bit oced 8800gt (benchmark), and 44 fps on e6850 @ 3.6 Ghz.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 04:13 Post subject: |
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I would go with the 4870X2 2gig to be honest. Best card you can get....might as well go big if your gunna upgrade. That way your good for least 2 years.
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 20:23 Post subject: |
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Yeah but at my resolution (1650 x 1050) I think X2 is a bit of an overkill. Looking at all benchmarks gtx280 and x2 start to shine at very high resolution (1080p and beyond). Like here http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Leadtek/GeForce_GTX_260_Extreme_Plus/6.html, 5 fps difference on my resolution and over $200 of a price difference. At my resolution I think I will be ok for at least a year, and as I said if something better comes from nvidia I'll upgrade it using step up.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 20:52 Post subject: |
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| Glottis wrote: | | You can get GTX 260 core216 factory overclocked cheaper than HD 4870 1GB. The new 260 is also better than HD 4870 1GB, it's pretty much as fast as GTX280, but much cheaper. I think it's the new 8800GT with price/performance ratio. Don't buy ATI, there isn't a single reason to get one, since price isn't in ATI's favor anymore. If you get ATI you'll always feel like having inferior product, believe me, I had so many ATIs |
Stop with the fanboyism and give the guy REAL facts and stats instead of pushing propaganda. If he goes green or red doesn't matter, it's the best-bang-for-the-buck that matters. So if you're pushing propaganda, deliver unbiased stats.
That said, if I had to choose between the 260(216) and a vanilla 4870 1GB I'd had to do even more research before I could make my mind up. I have a Powercolor PCS+ version (proprietary cooling, overclocked) and when I bought it there was only the 260(192). I think one of the things that pushed me away from nVidia was the "bumpgate" scandal that is still being silenced. 
I know for a fact that I will most likely go for a Phenom II coming spring. From what I've seen it's going to rock the price/performance ratio.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 22:07 Post subject: |
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Yeah I also dont care if its ATI or Nvidia as long as performance is good. I checked out many benchmarks, and 1gb 4870 and 216 core gtx260 seem to be evenly matched in price and performance. But what swayed me into nvidia direction is evga's step up program and their general customer support, they are one of the best.
Got the card today btw, but will wait for the new CPU to arive to put it all together. and HOLY CRAP the card iS HUUGEEE. The pictures does not do the size justice, its about twice the thickness of 8800gt and 1.5x times longer, just wow. Im actually afraid its not gonna fit into my antec 900 case, will probably have to remove a fan bracket.Got FC2 for free btw, will see if i can run it on ultra max.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 22:26 Post subject: |
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Couldn't the 8800 run it on Ultra? Shit... I'm glad I traded mine for my 360 and bought a 4850 then! My 4850 runs it on Ultra settings and 4xAA.
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu, 18th Dec 2008 23:21 Post subject: |
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Depends on your gaming needs imo
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008 00:27 Post subject: |
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I also have an xbox 360 but i never touch it. I download those games, burn them, play them once and never go back to playing them ever again. I probably have over 20 games that i played once and they didnt hold me for more than 15 minutes. I'll probably never get used to controlling shooters with a controller. I only play exclusives that wont come to PC such as fable 2 and gow 2 which really didnt hold me for long, also genres like fighting games such as street fighter 4 and shooters like RE5 but i hear those are coming to pc too so more the reasons for me not to play xbox.
I think gtx260 should satisfy my gaming needs and the games for a while. I mainly play cod 4 now and i could see my 8800GT struggling especially on more open areas such as crossfire. As soon as i look down the street you could feel this annoying microstuttering and fps dipped well below into the red zone. That was on 1650 x 1050 everything maxed with 4x AA, from benches i see that gtx260 plays it perfectly, but i will try it myself and report back.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008 02:28 Post subject: |
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| Krest wrote: | | Yeah but at my resolution (1650 x 1050) I think X2 is a bit of an overkill. Looking at all benchmarks gtx280 and x2 start to shine at very high resolution (1080p and beyond). Like here http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Leadtek/GeForce_GTX_260_Extreme_Plus/6.html, 5 fps difference on my resolution and over $200 of a price difference. At my resolution I think I will be ok for at least a year, and as I said if something better comes from nvidia I'll upgrade it using step up. |
its not overkill when it comes to games man |
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| Posted: Fri, 19th Dec 2008 03:17 Post subject: |
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I would not buy a 4870X2 for anything under 1920x1200. I wouldn't buy a 280GTX for anything below 1920x1200 either. Cheaper cards on the market are better alternatives now that most mid-range cards (4850) can efficiently handle 1600x1200/1680x1050. But a 260GTX/4870 would be a great choice and allow you to use AA in most if not all games no problem.
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| Posted: Wed, 24th Dec 2008 23:26 Post subject: |
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don't upgrade, save for a new rig or get one now. Upgrading just gives you a half ass machine. The great part that you just upgraded and the rest will be mediocre parts. Except for the memory or HD there is no point in upgrading.
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Dec 2008 06:21 Post subject: |
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Heh too late, im already installing all the needed drivers on my upgraded machine. Have not played any games yet to see how it performs, as soon as i install some i'll say how good/bad it is.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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deelix
PDIP Member
Posts: 32062
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Thu, 25th Dec 2008 12:27 Post subject: |
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GTA 4 is a letdown. Rockstar doesn't know how to port and then code their games -.-
Runs just the same (as shit) at low res as high res. With a decent gfx card as a UBER gfx card in crossfire/SLI.
But don't think there are many other games like this tho.
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| Posted: Fri, 26th Dec 2008 10:26 Post subject: |
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Well im very happy with my new setup.
STALKER clear sky runs perfectly with everything on very high + dx10 lighting but no AA, ho hickups, lags or microstuttering. Wasnt as smooth with my 8800GT and looked a lot worse so i put off playing it till it gets patched up adn some mods show up.
GTA IV gets 60 fps in the benchmark with texture on high and others on default settings, in game it runs very smoothly, have no idea what fps but it feels pretty fluid but not perfect.
Tried crysis warhead with everything on enthusiast with no AA and it runs above 30 fps, but sometimes deeps into 20s zone but it is very playable if you want all the eye candy, bet i can make fps higher by mixing the settings and still make it look good. Also tried max AA (16xQ) and it was about 15-20 fps but somehow it felt a bit smoother, still would not want to play it that way.
FarCry 2 runs very well on everything super high, but its a very optimized game, it run well on my 8800GT.
The only game that I havent noticed any difference is COD 4. The max fps is capped at 91 (same with my old card) and it does deep into the red zone (fps <60) sometimes, when you have a large open area and air strikes going on, still i expected a bit more.
Btw I quickly OCed the cpu to 3.4Ghz, I didnt go higher because of my ram which is only good at 800 Mhz, and i cant find an option to unlink the ram overclocking with cpu overclocking it just keeps it 1:1, but the CPU can go much higher because im running very low voltage and the temperatures are very good with aftermarket cooler. I also OCed the card - Core clock to 700 (from 576) and memory clock to 1100 from 1000, and temps didnt reach 70C yet under heavy playing.
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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