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 Posted: Sat, 22nd Nov 2008 23:52 Post subject: Cancer-talk continued. |
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There was a thread about a potential cancer-cure a while ago; and I have a story/question for anyone who's interested.
I met with the board member of BIOVICA the other day, a small medical startup company by the same guy who made the cheaper HIV-test a few years back. Anyway, they have developed a special test that measures a quantity of a special enzyme in the blood that is characteristic of cancer. This test already exists on the market, however their version is something like 100 times (two orders) more sensitive... well, he said, that basically cancer could be detected at a much earlier stage, and this potentially saves lives.
The problem - company has no money to order clinical trials, and due to finicial crisis the prospective investors backed out. Docs don't want to do the clinical test for free because of regulations, and the companies that have less sensitive tests are unwilling to cooperate (siemens is one of them, the other I think is AstraZeneca) - reasons unknown. And the owner of the patents doesn't want to get public funding from public organizations because he would have to publish his findings, and forgo the patents.
You can find out more at http://www.biovica.com/, where they talk about the product a bit; it's of course propagandistic in nature, but I've reviewed the statistical data and it seems to be quite promising. Of course, there are no clinical trials yet; but the retrospective analysis of cancer-patients blood samples seems very promising.
So to me it's a moral dilemma, of sorts. Should the doc give up his work and save lives, or should he benefit from years and years of work that went into developing this device? Also, the patent expires in 18 years and is not valid in some countries.
If you have any specific questions, maybe I can answer them. But I would like to know what you think the doc should do. My personal opinion is that he should give up the research for public benefit.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 00:09 Post subject: |
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No right answer I guess...
I agree with your idealistic point of view when viewed from a personal human level with ethics applied to educated people thinking...
I also don't think you could blame the guy for playing the game by the rules of a system designed to eventually arrive at the 'right' answer without employing ethics at all...
Don't know..
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Lutzifer
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Posts: 12740
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 03:19 Post subject: |
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well, afaik alot of forms of cancers are easily spottable early on, if people get themselves tested often enough. So even if the guy gives up his patents, it might not help many people because the testing may be better, but the behavior of people (e.g. getting tests done) doesnt necessarily change.
i m still for disclosure though, because the more information is freely available the more other people will build on that. Also, poorer countries always benefit from patent-free procedures and / or cheaper testing / pharmaceuticals...
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 03:24 Post subject: |
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I personally hope they never find a cure as clearly god hates people and gives them cancer as a punishment for getting on his nerves, well if I was god that's what I would do.
cockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcock
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Lutzifer
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 03:26 Post subject: |
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so how's your cancer, dazz? 
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 04:50 Post subject: |
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| Dazz99 wrote: | | I personally hope they never find a cure as clearly god hates people and gives them cancer as a punishment for getting on his nerves, well if I was god that's what I would do. |
If you had balls, you go into a hospital, into a cancer ward and say that and videotape it so we could see that you did do it.
Cancer isnt a joking subject
I know you makes jokes about everything and anything and well, ive gotten used to it.
But Cancer is not funny and is not something to make light of...
Im not saying dont be your usual self and makes fun of everything. But draw the line somewhere man, just outta rrespect. Cancer is one of those thingsthat crosses the line bud.
And dude, Im not trying to flame you or piss you off or anything so dont respond with "your a dumb stupid cocksucker" or anything. It doesnt serve any purpose and doesnt make you look wiity/humourus etc
If you want to discuss this, thats cool and I will. But no flaming and no childish crap and no immaturity, cool? |
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 04:56 Post subject: |
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| Dazz99 wrote: | | I personally hope they never find a cure as clearly god hates people and gives them cancer as a punishment for getting on his nerves, well if I was god that's what I would do. |
Clearly some people realised too late that you can make more money out of supporting drugs rather than out of cures. If the drug production companies were smart enough, even flu would still be an uncurable disease. But I uess they're still doing more than fine with diabetes, cancer and aids.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 07:52 Post subject: |
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How much cash do they need?
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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Rinze
Site Admin
Posts: 2343
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 13:30 Post subject: |
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The product will still require clinical tests, even if he hands out all data. If small companies can't get investors to provide money then the clinical tests will have to be done by a bigger company that doesn't need additional investors. He might as well sell the company to a bigger pharmaceutical company, that way he at least gets some money out of it.
An other option is to simply wait a few years until investors are willing to put in money again.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 13:58 Post subject: |
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| tainted4ever wrote: | | How much cash do they need? |
Ten to twenty million euro. I asked them if they considered asking the public for money anyways, like on a webpage; but apparently that was a stoopid idea. 
| Rinze wrote: |
The product will still require clinical tests, even if he hands out all data. If small companies can't get investors to provide money then the clinical tests will have to be done by a bigger company that doesn't need additional investors. He might as well sell the company to a bigger pharmaceutical company, that way he at least gets some money out of it.
An other option is to simply wait a few years until investors are willing to put in money again.
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If he hands out the data, then the clinical tests can be supported by the non-profit cancer funds which easily have the means. Also, as I already pointed out, they tried selling the idea to Siemens but they weren't interested. From what I hear, Siemens guys didn't even review the research, they just said "no". I think there was a misunderstanding that the test would just be a better way to do the old test, not potentially do new things. There also exists mistrust between small companies with potentially valuable but easily copiable (patents can only protect so much) technology and big giants that do whatever they can get away with.
| Lutzifer wrote: | well, afaik alot of forms of cancers are easily spottable early on, if people get themselves tested often enough. So even if the guy gives up his patents, it might not help many people because the testing may be better, but the behavior of people (e.g. getting tests done) doesnt necessarily change.
i m still for disclosure though, because the more information is freely available the more other people will build on that. Also, poorer countries always benefit from patent-free procedures and / or cheaper testing / pharmaceuticals... |
There's another use of this device in dosometry, which is even more promising. I can't go into details, but basically it's a very good idea to know if a patient **still** has cancer and should get a bigger dose of drugs that interfere with mitosis. |
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Nov 2008 17:33 Post subject: |
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it really is funny when people like Jade Goody make a living based upon having a cancer, I hope she dies a fucking painful and slow death and I hope her children get cancer too.
lol
cockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcockcock
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