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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 12:35 Post subject: Stupid Cops |
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Man, cops are gettin fuckin stupid in southern ontario/gta.
I get a phone call last nite from my niece (who's 11 or 12) and she's crying her eyes out saying she doesnt want me to die and that im gunna die soon and all this shit. When she calmed down I asked her to explain where all this was coming from.
She goes to a day camp thing at her middle school and they had a cop there recently to talk about drugs and smoking and stuff. For those of you in NA, it was those D.A.R.E people (fuckin fear mongers). Anyway, i guess they were asked to say if they knew anyone that smoked and my niece said yeah, I smoke. So the cop goes on to tell her how Im gunna die soon because they pack cigarettes with rat poison etc and that if you smoke, the most you have to live is a year (funny, ive been smoking since i was a kid).
Anyway, this upset her greatly and really pissed me off.
Like, teach the facts, dont try and brainwash kids with bullshit and make them cry and stuff. There's scaring kids straight and there's giving correct knoiwledge to prevent them from doing such bad things. This cop did neither, she was fear mongering. Plain and simple. Why not say that Bin Laden controls all the tobacco in the world and we are helping terrorism by smoking etc
Anyway, I just had to vent because Ive been thinking about it all night. Gunna go to the station later today and file a complaint against the cop
Like I know smoking isnt healthy and if you do it for a good portion of your life, bad things are bound to happen. But I get checked regularly for all sorts of things and as far as my doctor is concerned im in perfect health, well, physically anyway.
Cops shouldnt be fear mongering, just providing facts, unbiased facts
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 12:47 Post subject: |
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kids don't understand facts and numbers .. telling them cigarettes have cyanide in it won't really matter to them... now telling them that cigarettes can kill you by causing cancer, well it might deter them more.
honestly if it was up to me i would cancel the health coverage of anyone who casually or heavily smokes... I don't need to pay taxes towards a health care to take care of people who don't listen to sound advice...
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 12:51 Post subject: |
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Definitely complain, Kids are so easy to convince. Maybe they're thinking that scaring them now would make them think later on. It's stupid. What would be funny if one kid popped up and said 'But sir, what would happen if everyone all stopped smoking at once? There would be a tax deficit and your taxes would probably go up.' That would be a classic. SO yeah, teach the facts, by all means show what may happen, but dont go round telling kids that the people they love are going to die.
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 12:55 Post subject: |
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| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | kids don't understand facts and numbers .. telling them cigarettes have cyanide in it won't really matter to them... now telling them that cigarettes can kill you by causing cancer, well it might deter them more.
honestly if it was up to me i would cancel the health coverage of anyone who casually or heavily smokes... I don't need to pay taxes towards a health care to take care of people who don't listen to sound advice... |
qft. |
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 15:19 Post subject: |
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Syco
As least the cop made a impact on her and hopefully she won't smoke when she gets older. Sometimes you have to scare the shit outta kids. We baby them and they don't learn responsibility. I would have more of a problem if he showed graphic material like body parts and disturbing images, stuff like you see on age restricted shows (horror) in the name of not smoking.
If you go and file a complaint it is almost like you are defending smoking. You would be sending her mixed messages. I think it bothers you more that she called you crying and you had to explain a bad choice that you made in your life.
| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | kids don't understand facts and numbers .. telling them cigarettes have cyanide in it won't really matter to them... now telling them that cigarettes can kill you by causing cancer, well it might deter them more.
honestly if it was up to me i would cancel the health coverage of anyone who casually or heavily smokes... I don't need to pay taxes towards a health care to take care of people who don't listen to sound advice... |
I totally disagree with stoping coverage of smokers. Cig's should be made illegal before that ever happens. The biggest problem with that line of thinking is where do you draw the line. Fist it is the smokers, then it is limit the coverage for the obese people, then it is the fat ones, or the ones that don't excerise. We would end up like the states in no time because it is the governments best interest to limit coverage. It would open the door to people who were pre-disposed to illness. In the states if you have a existing illness try to find coverage. It is sick the way their coverage works. People suffer because of it.
As it stands in Canada you can be declined mort insurance if cancer runs in your family if they so decide. For some that means never owning a house because if you have a larger mort. then the insurance is require. I could see health insurance going in that direction if we start putting conditions of health care.
I think it is our duty to a certain degree to protect the stupid choices that people are free to make.
edit:typing without glasses
Last edited by pistolshrimp on Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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MannyK
Posts: 1405
Location: Brazil
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nouseforaname
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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deelix
PDIP Member
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Location: Norway
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MannyK
Posts: 1405
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 19:50 Post subject: |
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 21:14 Post subject: |
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sadly today, the job of raising the kids is falling more and more onto mom#2 aka the TV and whatever influence they see outside.. .mom and dad are never around anymore so it falls to social workers, teachers and in this case even cops who shouldn't even be involved with this crap to pick up the slack...
if parent and in syco's case their uncle, had a nice sit down with the kids and discussed the issues and problems, then maybe the police wouldn't need to take time out to come and talk to the kids...
north american family is falling apart rapidly.
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 21:17 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | Syco
As least the cop made a impact on her and hopefully she won't smoke when she gets older. Sometimes you have to scare the shit outta kids. We baby them and they don't learn responsibility. I would have more of a problem if he showed graphic material lke body parts and disturbing images, stuff like you see on age restricked shows (horror) in the name of not smoking.
If you go and file a complaint it is almost like you are defending smoking. You would be sending her mixed messages. I think it bothers you more that she called you crying and you had to explain a bad choice that you made in your life.
| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | kids don't understand facts and numbers .. telling them cigarettes have cyanide in it won't really matter to them... now telling them that cigarettes can kill you by causing cancer, well it might deter them more.
honestly if it was up to me i would cancel the health coverage of anyone who casually or heavily smokes... I don't need to pay taxes towards a health care to take care of people who don't listen to sound advice... |
I totally disagree with stoping coverage of smokers. Cig's should be made illegal before that ever happens. The biggest problem with that line of thinking is where do you draw the line. Fist it is the smokers, then it is limit the coverage for the obese people, then it is the fat ones, or the ones that don't excerise. We would end up like the states in no time because it is the governments best interest to limit coverage. It would open the door to people who were pre-disposed to illness. In the states if you have a existing illness try to find coverage. It is sick the way their coverage works. People suffer because of it.
As it stands in Canada you can be declined mort insurance if cancer runs in your family if they so decide. For some that means never owning a house because if you have a larger mort. then the insurance is require. I could see health insurance going in that direction if we start putting conditions of health care.
I think it is our duty to a certain degree to protect the stupid choices that people are free to make. |
good point, but smoking just has way too much of a risk attached to it... and it is a hobby ( almost)...same with excess drinking... same with drugs... i would deny anyone who needed medical assistance because of causes related to smoking, drugs and booze, and when i say deny i would mean complete coverage, obviously if they paid themselves they would be helped.
i can understand your point though... do we ban sky diving too? motor racing? crap fishing? sometimes i think the US healthcare has the right idea with their insurance coverage stuff... but then again we all know how bad things are over there.
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 21:27 Post subject: |
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USA = highest spending on healthcare per capita of all OECD countries
but hey, if you think it is more important to line the pockets of insurance companies instead of helping someone out because you disagree with their life choices, well, that's up to you.
asus z170-A || core i5-6600K || geforce gtx 970 4gb || 16gb ddr4 ram || win10 || 1080p led samsung 27"
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 21:34 Post subject: |
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there has to be a fucking line man... taxes are killing me and they are jsut tacking more on... the new house tax... i have to register my cat now? putting toles on roads soon? this is on top of the raping i get every 2 weeks on my paycheque... i swear there is no lube or anything... and its a broken mop stick...
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 22nd Jul 2008 23:15 Post subject: |
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| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | | there has to be a fucking line man... taxes are killing me and they are jsut tacking more on... the new house tax... i have to register my cat now? putting toles on roads soon? this is on top of the raping i get every 2 weeks on my paycheque... i swear there is no lube or anything... and its a broken mop stick... |
I am more for holding the government accountable for wasting money and for looking after their own selfish interest rather then saving money on smokers due to health care costs. For the average person wages stay the same but the people that we put into power get huge raises every year, a healthy size bonus. They just introduced a carbon tax, they say to make people drive less. Then they gave the oil and gas industry something like S350,000,000. subsidy. Something like that. I don't have a link but I will look for it later.
In what job can you get fired for excepting huge kickbacks and scams on the public and still walk away with a huge severence package and land another job within the year in the governement in where you make just under $1,000,000.
There is such a thing as a addictive personality. It is a mental disorder for some. Kids born from fetal alcohol have low impulse control and are at a higher risk. Some after head injuries become complusive. It isn't fair to punish them farther. IMO
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 00:10 Post subject: |
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| MAD_MAX333 wrote: | sadly today, the job of raising the kids is falling more and more onto mom#2 aka the TV and whatever influence they see outside.. .mom and dad are never around anymore so it falls to social workers, teachers and in this case even cops who shouldn't even be involved with this crap to pick up the slack...
if parent and in syco's case their uncle, had a nice sit down with the kids and discussed the issues and problems, then maybe the police wouldn't need to take time out to come and talk to the kids...
north american family is falling apart rapidly. |
hey man, I was told explicitly not to discuss such things with my niece by her parents. As mcuh as I disagree with this, i have to respect the rights of the parents...,..well, untill she gets to highschool 
@pistol
Naw, my niece has cried to me before about she doesnt want me to smoke and all that and i told her its my decision as an adult.
What bothered me was the shit this one cop was filling her head with, saying im going to die within the year because i smoke. that is totally uncalled for. |
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 01:15 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | MAD_MAX333 wrote: | sadly today, the job of raising the kids is falling more and more onto mom#2 aka the TV and whatever influence they see outside.. .mom and dad are never around anymore so it falls to social workers, teachers and in this case even cops who shouldn't even be involved with this crap to pick up the slack...
if parent and in syco's case their uncle, had a nice sit down with the kids and discussed the issues and problems, then maybe the police wouldn't need to take time out to come and talk to the kids...
north american family is falling apart rapidly. |
hey man, I was told explicitly not to discuss such things with my niece by her parents. As mcuh as I disagree with this, i have to respect the rights of the parents...,..well, untill she gets to highschool
@pistol
Naw, my niece has cried to me before about she doesnt want me to smoke and all that and i told her its my decision as an adult.
What bothered me was the shit this one cop was filling her head with, saying im going to die within the year because i smoke. that is totally uncalled for. |
Well I am going to go with that it is her parents responsiblity to complain about the officer in question. I think when you raise kids you have to have a game plan and it is hard enough for the 2 parents to be on the same page let alone extended family.
You weren't there to hear what this cop actually said. All you know is that this smoking talk really upset her, the fact that she has cried to you before this proves it is a concern before the cop talk. She loves you too remember. Children are manipulative when they want something and she wants you to stop smoking. By justifing smoking by saying you are a adult and it is your decision, altho true is not a good teaching method for children imo. It provides the excuse for the kid later in life to justify any bad behavior. "I can do this [smoke, shoot up, eat like a pig] All the vices in life.
I sound like a hard ass but raising kids takes a lot of work and sacrifice to raise kids so they can cope with all the traps in modern society. The sacrific is by living your life by example. I agree with Max that so many parents aren't interacting and teaching their kids enough. Best way to teach your kids is with the basics and instil confidence (which takes time) so they cope in a healthy way and not reach for that cigerette, or drugs, booze or street race.
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 01:29 Post subject: |
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same thing i was gonna say... are we sure the cop said those exact comment? or is that what the kid heard? big difference
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 01:35 Post subject: |
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Younger kids tend to exaggerate. Maybe one kids parent's told one kid that was the case, during recess the kid told your niece this, and then your niece put the word into the cops mouth. Not saying she was lying, maybe just got confused with all the fear ....
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MAD_MAX333
Moderator
Posts: 7020
Location: Toronto, Canada...eh
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 02:06 Post subject: |
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| pistolshrimp wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | MAD_MAX333 wrote: | sadly today, the job of raising the kids is falling more and more onto mom#2 aka the TV and whatever influence they see outside.. .mom and dad are never around anymore so it falls to social workers, teachers and in this case even cops who shouldn't even be involved with this crap to pick up the slack...
if parent and in syco's case their uncle, had a nice sit down with the kids and discussed the issues and problems, then maybe the police wouldn't need to take time out to come and talk to the kids...
north american family is falling apart rapidly. |
hey man, I was told explicitly not to discuss such things with my niece by her parents. As mcuh as I disagree with this, i have to respect the rights of the parents...,..well, untill she gets to highschool
@pistol
Naw, my niece has cried to me before about she doesnt want me to smoke and all that and i told her its my decision as an adult.
What bothered me was the shit this one cop was filling her head with, saying im going to die within the year because i smoke. that is totally uncalled for. |
I sound like a hard ass but raising kids takes a lot of work and sacrifice to raise kids so they can cope with all the traps in modern society. The sacrific is by living your life by example. I agree with Max that so many parents aren't interacting and teaching their kids enough. Best way to teach your kids is with the basics and instil confidence (which takes time) so they cope in a healthy way and not reach for that cigerette, or drugs, booze or street race. |
i can't blame the parents much, the society and cost of living keeps them out of the house 24/7...
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 06:57 Post subject: |
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I think part of the propbem is that a lot of people have a sence of entitlement when it comes to things they don't really need. I have quite a few friends that complain they can't get ahead but it seems the more money they make the more they spend. They get a little ahead and suddenly they have a new car, better clothes. No impluse control I tell you. Same thing that get smokers into trouble in the first place only affecting other parts of their lives.
If I had the choice I would want to stay home and raise my own kids and just go without some of the stuff. Cut down my in other areas.
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 08:42 Post subject: |
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Pistolschrimp, you wrote: I think it is our duty to a certain degree to protect the stupid choices that people are free to make.
While we all have some moral obligation to help others in need, we are also first and foremost responsible for ourselves. Canada and the USA lack personal accountability, People need to step up and make good choices, and live with the consequences of poor choices. I am all for people making mistakes and helping out those in need, (in fact that's what I do for a living.) There is a fine line.
Personally I would never outlaw tobacco, I would mandate that the additive non natural chemicals that are added be removed. Cigarettes would follow almost identical rules to food, if you can't ingest it safely (arsenic, benzene etc) it would not be allowed in Cigarettes.
Read not to contradict and confute, nor to believe and take for granted, but to weigh and consider.
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.
In all your remembering, remember that you have choices
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 09:38 Post subject: |
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I was thinking of what I would say to a kid if I was a smoker and syco’s story happened to me. I would let them cry. Then I would say I was so glad that they were smart enough to realise how bad it was. Then I would talk about how bad habits are hard to break. That really smart people just avoid bad habits the first place and learn from others mistakes. Then I would say I wish I never started because stopping is one of the hardest things I have had to do in my life. That I am haven’t given it up but I am really trying.
Comparing rat poison to smokes I think is ok, it is just an analogy that gives a child an idea of what arsenic is. You can’t explain the components of chemicals to most kids. You only have a small window to grab their attention. Then they tune you out. Then imagine having a whole class of kids. Trying to maintain order and control you have to be dramatic sometimes.
Mart
I don’t disagree with anything you just said. I like the idea about outlawing non natural chems
I think stopping medical coverage just because someone smokes it cruel and punitive. It is righteous imo. I think the focus should be on prevention, education, programs just because those would increase someone's personal accountability but when all else fails that person deserves a death with dignity.
What would happen to those who made the decision to quit and 2 years later developed cancer. Would they get coverage? That is taking away someone's hope. Some murder would have a better expecation of the quality of his death as a non smoker than a honest smoker .
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 14:56 Post subject: |
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It was exactly what the cop said or else my niece wouldnt have reacted to it like shit did. We've had many convo's about my smoking and none lead to tears.
This cop clearly stated that I would be dead within a year if I didnt stop and thats what iupset my niece.
Like I said, they should stick to facts, not fear mongering and my view on this isnt going to change
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deelix
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Location: Norway
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TiHKAL
Posts: 2350
Location: The Pub
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 18:22 Post subject: |
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snuff, dont remote villages in china and tibet use that stuff? saw a doc on it recently
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 18:23 Post subject: |
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Yeah what Deelix linked is known commonly as Snus (or snuff) at least in Scandinavia, it's just one form of snuff and you can get it in portions like in the pic or in loose form. Think it's called dipping tobacco or sth in USA?
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed, 23rd Jul 2008 18:26 Post subject: |
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never heard of it aside from that doc i saw.
these tibetians were sniffing it. i thought it was like coke
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