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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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 Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 00:04 Post subject: |
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Indeed.
| Quote: | | I'm not about to sit here and provide links, because Google is more effective -- but it's a well known fact (and I've seen it with my own eyes, so please don't insult my intelligence by calling me a liar) that the PS3 has disgusting framerate issues with a large portion of it's titles. GTA4 and Grid not withstanding, older titles are laggy as fuck and suffer from constant hitching. A Youtube search will provide all the proof you need. |
If you're going to make these kind of claims I'm afraid the onus is on you to prove it. I own a PS3 and I've not experienced any of the horrific problems you've mentioned - so am therefore not inclined to go searching for a problem that doesn't exist. However if you were to provide evidence to contrary I'd be happy to watch/read it and be convinced.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 00:19 Post subject: |
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Could it be that some PS3's are defected? Because I have heard claims on both sides by those who actually own the console. Perhaps simply overheating and causing slowdowns?
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 00:23 Post subject: |
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Google will throw up strange crackpot theories supporting anything my mind can conjure. The other link is filed under 'rumour mill' and has no proof or evidence of any sort. You said you had videos, and I assumed maybe some respectable articles. So lets see what you consider proof. Otherwise pipe down. I'm not going to dig around for this stuff because it's not in my interests - it's in yours. I don't see these problems, whilst you (a 360 user who has proclaimed PC gaming dead) do see these problems. It's your job to provide evidence, I'm not going to jump through hoops for it.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 00:25 Post subject: |
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you know without trying to do the old internet name drop of "i know a guy who works for" lets just say i know a few developers because of the nature of my day job. and the old PS3 vs 360 thing has come up once or twice. Now one of the guys who i have alot of respect for (he's a total nerdy programmmer developer personified) said it basically goes like this as it stands today.
The xbox360 is the top dog because its GPU is pretty powerful, he went into explaining it, i dont really understand the ins and outs of everything he rolled off to me be he said that coupled with the CPU being alot more along the lines of what theyre used to using makes it 100x better to develop with. BUT he did say this might not be always the case because the Cell cpu is pretty damn amazing its just there's a steep learning curve and the ps3 dev kit is shit he said the ps3 GPU is weaker than the 360 GPU but the Cell is designed to offload work from the GPU its just that in theory and in practice its 2 different things. over time he said if the tools get better and as they become more familiar with the architecture there's potential for the PS3 to produce things the xbox360 simply cant do.
to add to this Ive got PS3 and 360 GTAIV for both...it looks better on the 360 the image is sharper and the color pallate makes it appear alot lighter. BOTH have slowdown imho. earlier games run like crap on PS3 compared to 360, id agree with that too. UT3 runs great, COD4 runs great most of the newer games do. I dont think we should count the PS3 out, its not a turkey its picking up sales. PC gaming on the other hand something needs to happen. Maybe with reforming the gfx card racket they could inject some life into the market instead of developers focusing on deleving games that grind our machines to a halt they should focus on delivering a good game, just look at IW with COD4 great optimized engine and a great fricken game, the engine doesnt have all the bells and whistles of crysis but you have to admit it looks damn good it runs smooth as butter and the online is pure class.
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 00:28 Post subject: |
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Regarding the original topic & discussion; the PC is far more than just a games platform. You can do graphic design, edit movies, create web pages, compile code, listen to and create music, read books, write books, do the accounts, browse the internet, download stuff, watch television & film... The list of activities you can do on your PC is practically endless - and the mouse/keyboard combination is still the most efficient and natural interface to exploit this. The multitasking power at your finger tips when sat down in front of a PC is immense to say the least...
BUT Playing games on your PC is a bonus, you don't buy one to exclusively play games, you buy one because you need it for work, for school, for the internet (etc). Gaming, even for the hardcore, is typically secondary to the original purpose of the machine - though that's not to say it isn't an influence in choosing certain components.
You wouldn't give up your PC to just have a console, but the same can't be said on the flipside. The PC is far more ubiquitous than the console and it's unlikely the majority would ever prefer just a console over just a PC. The reason of course being that the PC is far more than just a games machine. So with that point well and truly made I have to say that there's a disturbing trend of cataloguing many of the problems and drawbacks of PC ownership without taking into account that nobody actually uses their PC purely to play games and that the positives of PC ownership outweigh the negatives by a considerable margin.
The excuse given by Lucasarts is fantasy. In the console forum I gave my own possible reasoning for the absence of a PC version as so;
| Quote: | | For me the reason is very simple; they are pouring money into several console versions. [So] to make a PC version (and release it at the same time) would basically trump all of them (assuming it wasn't a straight PS2 port) and with (unfounded but prevalent) fears of piracy and all the work that would have to go into making it bug free they probably thought it would be too much of a hassle with too much of a negative impact on the rest of their lineup on the consoles. It's an executive decision based on maximising sales, reducing costs, nothing more. |
I'm sure that could be expanded or tweaked, and I'm sure there are various other hypothesises you could make more realistic than the one given by Lucasarts. People have already made clear here and elsewhere that buying a PC capable of gaming is nowhere near as expensive as stated and that also developing for the PS2, Wii, PSP (et al) nullifies the whole argument anyway.
PC gaming is not dying and it will never die. There's nothing exciting happening on the console front to justify such fervent commentary from some of our users. What does the XBOX 360 have to look forward to that the PC doesn't? If you take take a good look around you'll see that they are all different platforms with all different shapes and sizes of games... nothing is dying. It's always evolving.
Anyway proof will be in the pudding as to whether the Force Unleashed will be missed or not. From a PC gamers perspective I suspect not.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 00:41 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | | Google will throw up strange crackpot theories supporting anything my mind can conjure. The other link is filed under 'rumour mill' and has no proof or evidence of any sort. You said you had videos, and I assumed maybe some respectable articles. So lets see what you consider proof. Otherwise pipe down. I'm not going to dig around for this stuff because it's not in my interests - it's in yours. I don't see these problems, whilst you (a 360 user who has proclaimed PC gaming dead) do see these problems. It's your job to provide evidence, I'm not going to jump through hoops for it. |
... I said I had videos...? Where? Show me. I've not edited any of my posts, so you go ahead and back your ridiculous claims by showing me the quote of where I said I've got videos. I SAID, and I'm typing this reallllllly slowly by the way, "I've SEEN it with my own eyes" -- You think I'm stupid enough to make claims without having experienced anything myself? No, I'm not.
You asked for links. I provided a multitude of them. Now you're asking me to show scientific research and videos made by "reputable" sources. Like whom? GAMESPOT?! Yeah, I'll bet you bought into the shit-fest that was "Kane and Lynch" didn't you? Don't ask me to prove something and then turn a blind eye when I hand it to you on goddamn silver platter. That's just rude. As was said above; Perhaps certain PS3s are glitchy? Because I've seen you claim that GTA4 runs fine --- and REPUTED reviewers claim otherwise. Who is wrong? Who is right? Or should I just kneel in front of you and proclaim you my new, omnipotent, God?
Yes, I have proclaimed PC gaming dead -- or at the very least, dying. I've been a PC gamer for over 17 years and I've seen rises and falls, but never on a scale like this. Every game that gets announced for the PC has been delayed and pushed back and/or released on the current NextGen consoles first. It's insulting. Add to that the rising system requirements, again for games that are 100% playable on current consoles, and it's as plain as day to see. Developers jumping ship. Constant hardware upgrades and still the inability to play the current games with highest settings (and don't give me the cock and bull about "future scaling" - because that shit doesn't fly with me) and useless console ports; PC gaming is dying.
The PC isn't dead, but gaming on it is no longer a primary concern of developers - and rather than admit their failings, they just blame it on piracy instead. Why not blame the REAL culprits?
# Lousy Q&A
# Appalling optimisation
# Increasing sales prices due to greedy publishers
# Rushed, buggy and often incomplete content -- again, due to greedy publishers
# Hardware that is outdated and, as is the case lately, OBSOLETE in less than a year of release
I'm sick of this shit. You love your PS3, fair enough. I'll certainly not knock you for that, nor belittle you, but if you think I'm going to stop thinking the PS3 is a fucking joke just because YOU say so, you're grossly mistaken.
</Rant over>
-=Edit=-
Oh and one more thing; Don't spin my words to make me out to be a PC hating X360 user. That's bang out of order and only cheapens your argument. Face me on level ground or don't face me at all.
I'm a PC gamer at heart, have been for nearly two decades, who just happens to have given up and dropped out of the "Upgrade Rat Race©" after being conned out of £200 by nVidia --- and after being constantly disappointed by the lack of AAA titles for the platform, while console gamers get all the decent stuff.
| dvsone wrote: | | Maybe with reforming the gfx card racket they could inject some life into the market instead of developers focusing on deleving games that grind our machines to a halt they should focus on delivering a good game, just look at IW with COD4 great optimized engine and a great fricken game, the engine doesnt have all the bells and whistles of crysis but you have to admit it looks damn good it runs smooth as butter and the online is pure class. |
I'm hoping the new AMD initiative (AMD Game!) works some much-needed magic .. and not only halts the growing trend of "Buy our latest GPU!! It's 3.5x more powerful than the top-end card we sold you last week!!" but also breathes life back into PC gaming.
We need titles NOW, not in 6-12 months after their console counterparts are released. I don't care what additional content is bundled with the game (I'm glaring RIGHT at you, Mass Effect) just as long as we get it AT THE SAME TIME!
GTA4 will come out for the PC before the end of the year -- and it will sell. Not fantastically, but it will sell. What do you think will happen then? The publishers will blame piracy!!! Completely ignoring the fact that the bloody game has had it's lifespan on a console half a year ago!
Oh and yes, I agree 100% --- Call of Duty 4 is a work of magic coding. It looks stunning, plays perfectly, and best of all; runs on ANY GODDAMN HARDWARE! A 7600GT plays it great, for crying out loud! The SP is epic and enjoyable, while the online component is sheer class in every way. We need more devs like Infinity Ward.
-=Edit 2=-
Gah, last edit to this monstrosity of a post; Just so that people are clear - I am NOT being intentionally confrontational. I just have strong opinions and I'm passionate about what I believe in. I'll man my guns any time and any how --- nothing I have said here is a direct, or even indirect, attack on you or anyone (unless I specifically call someone a cocksucker, in which case.. ooops)
Last edited by sabin1981 on Wed, 21st May 2008 01:01; edited 1 time in total
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 01:00 Post subject: |
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Calm down. You mentioned youtube videos in one of your previous posts, and if you read carefully I said I assumed that you may have had some articles to back up your claim. I own a PS3 and I've not experienced the problems you rather extravagantly and derogatorily put across earlier (proclaiming anyone, including those PS3 owners amongst us, who SEE differently as ignorant). If you had merely expressed your opinion in a non inflammatory manner I wouldn't have cared. I'm not going to bother commenting on the rest of your post regarding the PS3, we'll agree to disagree.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 01:01 Post subject: |
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And, again, off-topic; StarTopia ROCKS.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 01:02 Post subject: |
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who cares ,consoles get most of the tiles but most are crap ,i can wait to have games like assasins creed.
Im goning to buy a 360 because of the damn GTA ,but i knowm in one or two months i m gonna get bored.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 03:49 Post subject: |
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Speaking of "Xbox controller pic in the control settings" I still haven't found out how to JUMP in the skiing mode of the Snowmobile VS -- on the PC version of "Lost Planet" The control page is setup for use with an X360 controller and I don't have a wired one for use on the PC.
How's THAT for piss-poor porting? How the hell DO you jump with that bloody VS? I've tried every goddamn key on the keyboard! >_<
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 10:59 Post subject: |
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Is this still the Force Unleashed not comming for PC topic ? ><
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vurt
Posts: 13835
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 14:27 Post subject: |
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| ike_pl wrote: | | Is this still the Force Unleashed not comming for PC topic ? >< |
Yes, but the logic behind our many, and varied, discussions was due to the pathetic excuse given by LucasArts over why TFU (or as I like to call it; "They Fucked Up") isn't coming to the PC
| vurt wrote: | | I don't mind that e.g Epic rather do games for console, i don't even like their games anymore. GoW was crap, latest UT was really bad as well, so no loss there.. |
I actually agree with you. GoW was massively overrated and UT3 massively a pile of shite, lol. Nothing Epic ever do will match the splendour of UT2004.
Last edited by sabin1981 on Wed, 21st May 2008 14:28; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 15:07 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | PC gaming is dead and thats a fact , show me a good AAA title thats not a port and its PC exclusive ... yeah wait ....some will say PC isn't dead ok then tell that to the producers/developers who jumped in 2008 on the blame shit train "piracy" , "graphic drivers" and "system requirement's" and for this they will not produce anymore PC exclusives but only half fucked ports , like PCs get the PS2 port |
PC gaming isn't dead... Gaming is dead.
All the hyped up "AAA" titles PC gamers miss have turned out to be utter tripe. Sure, the graphics are much prettier than 20 years ago when I saw my first computer game... but the game concepts itself are the same.
Lets take CoD4 for example - shiny, hyped up - and zero depth. It's production values are nice, but for fucks sake, I didn't have to think at all while playing it through. Enjoyable ride, but very shallow.
All the new games today tend to be made for average Joe (who is mentally on the level of a five year old). You are spoon-fed solutions, plots are paper thin and the game environments consist of tunnels with idiotical enemies.
It seems that the only thing that has changed throughout the years, is the ammount of money thrown into making those games. You need to have better graphics, professional voice actors and real-life physic simulation... That's where you pour the money at.
So what is left out? Story, character development, innovation and challenge. Average AAA title is a typical hollywood action flick - smooth 6 hours of gameplay where you see lots of fireworks but afterwards you're left feeling empty.
Quite funnily there key areas where I find games of today lacking are the ones that are very cheap to develop. They require no high-tech, no 200 people development teams... None of it.
And that's the way that PC gaming can come and kick some console arse.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 15:35 Post subject: |
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Can someone imagine lucasarts indiana jones adventures being released today ?
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 16:50 Post subject: |
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um, yes
but not by lucasarts
telltale (and few others) are doing great adventure games today still
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 17:36 Post subject: |
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The internet is filled with as much Xbox hate as PS3 hate. If you'd believe the net you'd think both consoles were huge flops. Internet is a platform for venting frustrations and complaints. I know several people who have the PS3, it's really popular here, I haven't seen many problems with it. I certainly didn't see major lag in games. I think it's overpriced, but that's because I wouldn't use Bluray.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 17:39 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | The internet is filled with as much Xbox hate as PS3 hate. If you'd believe the net you'd think both consoles were huge flops. Internet is a platform for venting frustrations and complaints. I know several people who have the PS3, it's really popular here, I haven't seen many problems with it. I certainly didn't see major lag in games. I think it's overpriced, but that's because I wouldn't use Bluray. |
Of course it is! Look, I'm not saying the 360 is perfect -- not by a long shot (remember, I suffered through Mass Effect's legendary frameloss) but that's the ONLY game I have that has framerate issues, whereas I've seen numerous on the PS3, which is SUPPOSED to be more powerful!
Right now I'm not touching that machine. Not until the price drops and they bring out some decent games and not another GT-rehash.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 17:43 Post subject: |
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Some people are just stuck in 'I have never had a problem so there are none' mentality.
A lot of 360 users went through that when the hardware problems first started surfacing. Now we see that on the other side.
Perfectly normal for the internet indeed
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 18:38 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | whereas I've seen numerous on the PS3, which is SUPPOSED to be more powerful! |
It has been stated several times in several threads here on Nforce and it's a known fact, the PS3 CPU is superior to the XBox CPU. The XBox GPU on the other hand is superior to the PS3 GPU. On the whole there are no major differences in power.
Like you I'm just stating what I've seen, I've seen no major lag or any other huge problems with the PS3. After reading your posts it seems to me like you're blinded by some rare bad experiences, I'm just stating different experiences. Before I bought my XBox a couple of weeks ago I played some games on the PS3, and I say again, I didn't see any major problems. The only big thing was the noticeable lag in PES2008 MP, but I hear that's the case with teh Xbox version also.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 19:37 Post subject: |
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So in that case, because YOU haven't seen them ... that means they don't exist, right?
Awesome. I'll remember that bit of logic for use in the future.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 20:10 Post subject: |
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In xbox you can make backups ,end of story
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 21:03 Post subject: |
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I'm just going to take your logic for this.
My flatmate has an X360. Never had an RROD.
My younger brother has an X360. Never had an RROD.
My best friend has an X360. Never had an RROD.
I have an X360. Never had an RROD.
Ergo, the RROD doesn't exist and you're just blind because of poor experiences. End of discussion, it's like beating your head against a brick wall.
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| Posted: Wed, 21st May 2008 21:59 Post subject: |
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Would you like me to give you some links to youtube vids and forums? After watching/reading those you'll think the Xbox is a piece of shit. You're accusing me of using faulty logic yet you have used the same logic in all of your posts. Like Ispep said, the internet is a great place wherein you can backup any claim.
I'm not saying the PS3 is error free, no piece of hardware is. I'm not saying the PS3 shits all over the Xbox, I have an Xbox myself and I already stated both console are overall the same in the power department. I'm just saying your claims that the PS3 is a overpriced piece of shit are ridiculous. But I guess there's no use in arguing, your opinion seems to be fixed and won't budge an inch.
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Or to Stardock or Paradox who's also doing great. PC is kind of dead for casual shit like FPS-games and third person platformers/action/survival games (but it has never been big on PC). I don't mind that e.g Epic rather do games for console, i don't even like their games anymore. GoW was crap, latest UT was really bad as well, so no loss there..
so it makes sense to me that the fps genre is switching sides.
. And no, it's not just me who hasn't seen problems. The PS3's I played on weren't mine, I just borrowed from friends and they dont see any issues either.
