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 Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 09:56 Post subject: |
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| SpykeZ wrote: | | doubt they'd be smart enough to license an engine. They've been using the same engine on their games for how long now? |
What? Who's been "using the same engine"? Eidos? Eidos isn't a developer; they're a publisher. Well, actually, they did just recently open a single actual development studio, and that's Eidos Studios Hungary, who's only game so far is Battlestations Midway.
But again, please, tell me, what engine is this that who exactly has been using for so long that you speak of?
Look, I know that you're, like, really popular and respected on these forums or whatever, but in my approximation, you're colossally ignorant, and I, for one, am not going to let you get away with saying completely wrong things, about subjects which you appear to know nothing about.
Let's take a look at Eidos' publishing history from the last 6 years. This following is a list of almost every single game Eidos has published since January 1, 2001. The only things I've left out are a few Japanese PS2 games that Eidos localized for the American market, an XBLA game, a couple of DS and/or PSP-exclusive games, mobile phone games, a bunch of sports management sims, and that's pretty much it. Alongside each game's name, I've listed it's engine. Without futher ado, here we go:
2007:
Tomb Raider: Anniversary (same engine as Tomb Raider Legend)
Chili Con Carnage (developer Deadline's Kapow engine)
Battlestations Midway (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Kane & Lynch: Dead Men (developer IO's Glacier engine, third gen)
Infernal (modified version of developer Metropolis' in-house engine, previously used in Soldier Elite/Gorky Zero: Aurora Watching)
RACE: Caterham (based on the ancient ISI engine)
2006:
Just Cause (developer Avalanche's "Avalanche Engine")
25 to Life (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Tomb Raider Legend (developer's proprietary/in-house, believed to be a highly evolved form of the engine for Legacy of Kain: Defiance)
Hitman: Blood Money (developer IO's Glacier engine, third gen)
Rogue Trooper (developer Rebellion's Azure engine)
Commandos Strike Force (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Urban Chaos: Riot Response (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Reservoir Dogs (developer's proprietary/in-house, possibly called Babel)
Bionicle Heroes (developer Traveler's Tales proprietary engine, same as Lego Star Wars)
RACE: The WTCC Game (based on the ancient ISI engine)
Ford Bold Moves Street Racing (developer's proprietary/in-house, used on all their shitty Ford racing games)
2005:
Imperial Glory (developer's proprietary/in-house, possibly similar to Praetorians engine)
Project: Snowblind (developer Crystal Dynamic's GexOmen engine)
LEGO Star Wars: The Video Game (developer's proprietary/in-house)
2004:
Thief: Deadly Shadows (Unreal Engine 2)
ShellShock: Nam '67 (developer Guerilla's Killzone engine)
Crash 'n' Burn (developer Climax Brighton's "Motorsports" engine)
Hitman: Contracts (developer IO's Glacier engine, second gen)
Backyard Wrestling 2 (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Get On Da Mic (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Athens 2004 (developer's proprietary/in-house)
2003:
Legacy of Kain: Defiance (developer's proprietary/in-house)
The Italian Job (developer Climax's Blimey engine)
Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness (developer Core's proprietary in-house engine)
Backyard Wrestling (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Whiplash (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Republic: The Revolution (developer Elixir's Totality Engine)
Deus Ex: Invisible War (Unreal Engine 2, modified and called "Flesh Engine" by Ion Storm)
Praetorians (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Commandos 3: Destination Berlin (developer's proprietary/in-house, probably modified Commandos 2)
2002:
TimeSplitters 2 (developer Free Radical's in-house engine)
Blood Omen 2: Legacy of Kain (developer's proprietary/in-house, probably same as Soul Reaver 2)
Salt Lake 2002 (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Hitman 2: Silent Assassin (developer IO's Glacier engine, second gen)
Deus Ex: The Conspiracy (Unreal Engine 1)
Herdy Gerdy (developer's proprietary/in-house)
World War II Panzer Claws (developer Reality Pump's Earth-3 engine)
2001:
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2 (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Mad Dash Racing (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Fear Effect 2: Retro Helix (developer's proprietary/in-house, same as Fear Effect 1)
Fate of the Dragon (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Startopia (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Anachronox (very heavily modified Quake II engine)
Gangsters 2 (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Commandos 2: Men of Courage (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Trade Empires (developer's proprietary/in-house)
Wave Rally (developer's proprietary/in-house)
So, wow. Pretty much every single game they've published since this decade uses a proprietary engine, created in-house by the developer. Pretty much the only notable exception is Ion Storm's clear preference for Unreal Engine.
So, now that I've destroyed your ignorant statement, do you care to make a response?
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 11:02 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Look, I know that you're, like, really popular and respected on these forums or whatever |
SpykeZ respected? HAHAHA.
C2D E6750 @ 3.2Ghz, 4GB 800MHz DDR2 4-4-4-12, GeForce GTX 260 c216 OC 896MB, 3.2TB, Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Xbox 360 Elite, PS2 Slim, Xbox
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 11:31 Post subject: |
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Don't make me post my "Drama Queen" picture ...
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 11:38 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | There is just as much, if not more innovation in console games, as there is in PC games. Many PC gamers are just too vain, conceited, ignorant, and stupid to realize it. |
Righttttttttttt what inovation are being made by consoles? You mean autoaim? By posting crap like that you only show how blind you are. Youre precious console games have more FPS games then PC and even more are in the making. Go check console section of the forum,there is topic about new games coming in 2008. Wow that topic is full of inovation. You have people with guns shooting in FP or people running with guns in TP. WOW. Plz can i have that inovation. Pretty plz.........Lets talk about triple AAA games on consoles shall we? GOW for example. Crap TS with linear path,small lvls,lets walk preset path and shoot same enemys all the time.OMG teh bomb of game. Must........get...........x360....
Halo 3 - running around small lvls with preset path shooting same aliens but omg you can use 2 guns. Omfg what inovation im drooling. AC - running around town pickpocketing, sitting on benches, pushing guards around, jumping around roofs, and then attacking 20 guards while they lineup and wait for their turn for you to kill them. Oh i forgot you can run away and jump in cart and then by some magic everything is ok. Wow. Im so immpressed by this its unreal. Oh there is Bioshock to. With straight preset path and with possibility to do everything on the first run, upgrade all weapons see all the rooms,only thing you cant see is diffrenet ending. Omg wow. What replay value. Lets not forget Oblivion with everything dumbed down and destroyed because we dont wanna people on consoles pressing 2 buttons more to get to inventory and skillz, or having monsters with lvls above main char. Oh no we dont wanna that because people that play consoles will be annoyed by the fact that they might die because they are to low lvl for monsters.Omg they might need to do some side quests to gain lvls. Omg noooooooooooo.Falllout 3 in the making. Game that took the name of one of the best games ever made,game with open world where everything you do,say, has influence on whole world,and destroyed it by making it FPS. Omg great inovation.Do you see patern here. You have LINEAR and SHOOTING. If you think that WII is inovating then you should really go and check ARCADES because everything that WII has was allready made by other people. The fact is games STOPED being inovating when CONSOLES gained popularity.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 11:57 Post subject: |
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| Nakitu wrote: | | Cedge wrote: | | There is just as much, if not more innovation in console games, as there is in PC games. Many PC gamers are just too vain, conceited, ignorant, and stupid to realize it. |
Righttttttttttt what inovation are being made by consoles? You mean autoaim? By posting crap like that you only show how blind you are. Youre precious console games have more FPS games then PC and even more are in the making. Go check console section of the forum,there is topic about new games coming in 2008. Wow that topic is full of inovation. You have people with guns shooting in FP or people running with guns in TP. WOW. Plz can i have that inovation. Pretty plz.........Lets talk about triple AAA games on consoles shall we? GOW for example. Crap TS with linear path,small lvls,lets walk preset path and shoot same enemys all the time.OMG teh bomb of game. Must........get...........x360....
Halo 3 - running around small lvls with preset path shooting same aliens but omg you can use 2 guns. Omfg what inovation im drooling. AC - running around town pickpocketing, sitting on benches, pushing guards around, jumping around roofs, and then attacking 20 guards while they lineup and wait for their turn for you to kill them. Oh i forgot you can run away and jump in cart and then by some magic everything is ok. Wow. Im so immpressed by this its unreal. Oh there is Bioshock to. With straight preset path and with possibility to do everything on the first run, upgrade all weapons see all the rooms,only thing you cant see is diffrenet ending. Omg wow. What replay value. Lets not forget Oblivion with everything dumbed down and destroyed because we dont wanna people on consoles pressing 2 buttons more to get to inventory and skillz, or having monsters with lvls above main char. Oh no we dont wanna that because people that play consoles will be annoyed by the fact that they might die because they are to low lvl for monsters.Omg they might need to do some side quests to gain lvls. Omg noooooooooooo.Falllout 3 in the making. Game that took the name of one of the best games ever made,game with open world where everything you do,say, has influence on whole world,and destroyed it by making it FPS. Omg great inovation.Do you see patern here. You have LINEAR and SHOOTING. If you think that WII is inovating then you should really go and check ARCADES because everything that WII has was allready made by other people. The fact is games STOPED being inovating when CONSOLES gained popularity. |
Ah, perfect. Thanks for volunteering as a perfect textbook example of the sort of vain, conceited, ignorant, and stupid PC snob that I was describing.
Judging from your (barely comprehensible) post, it appears as though you define "innovative" as, quite simply, complex non-linear games in large environments. You're blind, and you refuse to give console games the immense respect they deserve, as much as PC games, for sure.
Please, name a few of what you would consider "innovative" PC games of late.
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 12:19 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | Ah, perfect. Thanks for volunteering as a perfect textbook example of the sort of vain, conceited, ignorant, and stupid PC snob that I was describing.
Judging from your (barely comprehensible) post, it appears as though you define "innovative" as, quite simply, complex non-linear games in large environments. You're blind, and you refuse to give console games the immense respect they deserve, as much as PC games, for sure.
Please, name a few of what you would consider "innovative" PC games of late. |
If you knew how to read then you would notice this. | Quote: | | The fact is games STOPED being inovating when CONSOLES gained popularity. |
If you are to stupid to understand this i am sorry, but since its coming from pearson that finds games for consoles inovating its no suprise. Where is youre inovation in consoles? Did you name them? I dont see it.You should use some facts when debating, or making retarded statements, because saying something with no explanation doesnt make it true. Oh and calling someone stupid and ignorant only shows that you have no facts to add, so you make personal insults,and that only show youre low IQ. Oh and i can see you are english , and craping on my post because its not properly spelled shows again how stupid you are and VAIN. Its not my naitive language but i know it preety well and three other languages. How many languages you know to read and talk? Spore is one game that i can call innovative.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 12:25 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: |
There is just as much, if not more innovation in console games, as there is in PC games. Many PC gamers are just too vain, conceited, ignorant, and stupid to realize it. |
LULZ
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 12:52 Post subject: |
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| Nakitu wrote: | If you knew how to read then you would notice this. | Quote: | | The fact is games STOPED being inovating when CONSOLES gained popularity. |
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No, it's just so insanely ignorant, that I didn't even want to achknowledge it.
So, game innovation ended when consoles became popular, eh? The Atari 2600 had sold about 25 million units by 1985. So, I guess games stopped being innovative 22 years ago, huh?
| Nakitu wrote: | | If you are to stupid to understand this i am sorry, but since its coming from pearson that finds games for consoles inovating its no suprise. |
No. I'm acknowledging that the console world is home to incredible and innovative games. This is simply a lack of stupid, stubborn bias.
| Nakitu wrote: | | Where is youre inovation in consoles? Did you name them? I dont see it.You should use some facts when debating, or making retarded statements, because saying something with no explanation doesnt make it true. |
All around. There are many creative and unique games on consoles, just like on PC.
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time started the time-manipulation trend seen in games like Timeshift. Burnout created the crash-focused racing game. Katamari Damacy is literally completely unlike any game before it. No other game, save for perhaps the obscure Mojib Ribbon, looks like Okami. Puzzle Quest (originally for DS and PSP) combined story and RPG elements with a puzzle game in a unique way. Rez combined music and shooting in a way no other game has tried since, letting you create sounds as you blasted enemies. It was released back in 2000, but Jet Grind Radio is, to this day, the last game to invent a truly and completely NEW visual style: cel-shading. Everything else has just been improvements to typical 3D graphics (HDR, motion blur, normal mapping, etc). Resident Evil 4 popularized the over-the-shoulder, off-center camera angle seen in many action games nowadays. I challenge you to find a game similar to the Wii's Elebits. Music games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero, though similar to games that Japan has had for a decade now, are taking social gaming to a new level. Xbox Live invented profile-attached, multi-game achievements/merits, now being implemented on Steam. Shadow of the Colossus put you up against enemies of totally unheard of size, and to beat them took a bit of thinking. You couldn't just slash at them. You had to figure out how to scale these massive beasts, and then take down their weak points.
There is innovation in both console and PC games. Only a biased, delusional, ignorant fool would deny this.
| Quote: | | Spore is one game that i can call innovative. |
Cool. So, you agree that Spore, a game which is confirmed by EA to be coming to DS, and promised to be coming to Wii by Will Wright, is innovative. See? Multiplatform does not kill innovation.
| -=Cartoon=- wrote: | | Cedge wrote: |
There is just as much, if not more innovation in console games, as there is in PC games. Many PC gamers are just too vain, conceited, ignorant, and stupid to realize it. |
LULZ |
Lulz, indeed. Lulz at your pathetic ignorance and conceit.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 13:12 Post subject: |
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Cedge you should understand this :
This is Nforce they talk shit
edit: you forgot about Requiem: Avenging Angel the first game that had bullet time before Max pain
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 13:14 Post subject: |
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I couldn't give two fucks about those japanese "innovative" games you talk about. I have never heard them.
What I care about is the freaking consolization the PC gamers have to go through. Or do you also deny that ?
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 13:32 Post subject: |
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Console games... Innovation...
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 14:15 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: |
So, game innovation ended when consoles became popular, eh? The Atari 2600 had sold about 25 million units by 1985. So, I guess games stopped being innovative 22 years ago, huh? |
You cant compare Atari 2600 with todays consoles because there where so many limits to what can you do with it that people experimented with new ideas all the time.
| Cedge wrote: |
1- Prince of Persia: Sands of Time started the time-manipulation trend seen in games like Timeshift.
2-Burnout created the crash-focused racing game.
3-Katamari Damacy is literally completely unlike any game before it. No other game, save for perhaps the obscure Mojib Ribbon, looks like Okami.
4-Puzzle Quest (originally for DS and PSP) combined story and RPG elements with a puzzle game in a unique way.
5-Rez combined music and shooting in a way no other game has tried since, letting you create sounds as you blasted enemies. It was released back in 2000, but
6-Jet Grind Radio is, to this day, the last game to invent a truly and completely NEW visual style: cel-shading. Everything else has just been improvements to typical 3D graphics (HDR, motion blur, normal mapping, etc).
7- Resident Evil 4 popularized the over-the-shoulder, off-center camera angle seen in many action games nowadays.
8-I challenge you to find a game similar to the Wii's Elebits.
9-Music games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero, though similar to games that Japan has had for a decade now, are taking social gaming to a new level.
10-Xbox Live invented profile-attached, multi-game achievements/merits, now being implemented on Steam.
11-Shadow of the Colossus put you up against enemies of totally unheard of size, and to beat them took a bit of thinking. You couldn't just slash at them. You had to figure out how to scale these massive beasts, and then take down their weak points. |
1-This was done much before they only implemented it in action game.
2-OK if you find this new but i have seen it allready in many games as a part of game. Burnout only made it as main aspect
3-Check Arcades
4- http://www.popcap.com/
5-Yep this game was something new
6-Yep cel-shading was seen first in this game.But its still crapy clone of Tony Hawk
7- Resident evil 4 is shit compared to original. Its action game with stupid story that didnt bring anything new it only destroyed the game.That kind of camera was done long before RE4. RE 1 that was inovation.
8- People do that in RL so you cant call that inovation because it was copied.
9- Like i said about those games, they are old and only copied to consoles. Nothing new here. All are arcade games.
10- No Sega did it before with Dreamcast.
11- Y that was cool game. Upgraded POP.
So like i said with massive gain in popularity of consoles innovation died. Check the years of these games. Most games you mentioned where japanese arcade games that were ported to consoles.
| Quote: | | Spore is one game that i can call innovative. |
| Cedge wrote: | | Cool. So, you agree that Spore, a game which is confirmed by EA to be coming to DS, and promised to be coming to Wii by Will Wright, is innovative. See? Multiplatform does not kill innovation. |
This is PC game that will be ported to WIi but we will see in what shape. Check CIV series and how will work on x360.
You need to face fact that 99% games made today for console are button mashing pos with no depth. Check SS2 or NWN or HL or CIV and you will see what depth and replay value means. Its not omg i can shoot with 2 guns,or how everything explodes around you.
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Cohen
Posts: 7155
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 14:25 Post subject: |
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to Cedge.
Hello. Im a PC only gamer, formally a console gamer back in the day (SEGA,PS1, PS2, etc). I bought a 360 on release for gears of war. It was then I realized PC gaming owned console gaming up the shit pipe, and sold the console to buy a new graphics card. You cant escape it, Better graphics, more intelligent games when it comes to exclusivity we always get the best. Look at GoW, it eventually made its way to the PC and was bigger and better (although buggy, needing a patch but that is the developers faults). Games like Crysis, STALKER, can only be pulled off on a PC.
I see no reason to ever buy a console again. PC gaming is much better, its the original, and the best.
You don't have to preach, just chill your beans.
troll detected by SiN
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 14:42 Post subject: |
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It's not the consoles that are at fault for the lack of originality and sophistication in games... It's the console gamers with the short attention spam that can't think for even a second while playing whose at fault!
Recent examples: SC series, started great, peaked at SCCT and what happened with DA? It was dumbed so much, it was practically an action game with Sam Fisher as the main character.
Same happened with Rainbow Six games. Games used to have a planning phase, control over several units, etc. Now? And action game with GoW style cover... Not to say it's not a good action game, but I want a thinking man's Rainbow Six, not an can't-at-all monkey console idiot's action game.
The lack of buttons on the pads doesn't help at all. What game nowadays doesn't have multiple actions bound to the same key? Why? Why do I need to use the "action" key (aka "A" button on the 360 pad) to take cover, replace guns, open doors, grab enemies, activate computers, grab turret guns and revive teammates? I'll tell you why, because the game's made for consoles first and idiot devs can't be bothered to split the actions for a keyboard.
And it's not just me, or how someone here put it, NFOrce shit talkers... Studies have shown that the PC gamer is much more mature (not in age only, but in mentality as well), while console gamers only look for "next gen" graphics and "cool" action. They can't be bothered to play slow, thinking games.
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 14:43 Post subject: |
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Okay, so, what arcade game is like Katamari Damacy?
| Quote: | | 6-Yep cel-shading was seen first in this game.But its still crapy clone of Tony Hawk |
Ah hah, more ignorance. Tony Hawk is focused on doing stunts and tricks. JGR is not. There are seriously about a half-dozen tricks in the game. It's entirely focused on moving around the levels and tagging.
| Quote: | | 7- Resident evil 4 is shit compared to original. Its action game with stupid story that didnt bring anything new it only destroyed the game.That kind of camera was done long before RE4. RE 1 that was inovation. |
What did RE1 do that Alone in the Dark didn't?
| Quote: | | 8- People do that in RL so you cant call that inovation because it was copied. |
So, nothing in videogames is innovative if you can do it in real life?
| Quote: | | 10- No Sega did it before with Dreamcast. |
Uh, no. They didn't.
11- Y that was cool game. Upgraded POP.
| Quote: | | So like i said with massive gain in popularity of consoles innovation died. |
No, it didn't.
| Quote: | | Most games you mentioned where japanese arcade games that were ported to consoles. |
Uh, no. Not a single one I mentioned is like that. Rock Band and Guitar Hero are clearly inspired by Guitar Freaks, but that's it.
Making such exaggerated statements doesn't make you sound any smarter.
| Quote: | | You need to face fact that 99% games made today for console are button mashing pos with no depth. Check SS2 or NWN or HL or CIV and you will see what depth and replay value means. Its not omg i can shoot with 2 guns,or how everything explodes around you. |
You need to face the fact that 99% of all games ever, for the past 30+ years, have been simple, "arcadey" games, not deep, complex games like you're pretending all PC games are, and no console game has ever been.
| Nakitu wrote: | | You cant compare Atari 2600 with todays consoles because there where so many limits to what can you do with it that people experimented with new ideas all the time. |
Okay, fine. What about the Sega Genesis and SNES? There were tens of millions of those sold by the mid-90s, and innovation wasn't killed. Are you going to change your story again?
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 15:04 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: |
Okay, so, what arcade game is like Katamari Damacy?
| Quote: | | 6-Yep cel-shading was seen first in this game.But its still crapy clone of Tony Hawk |
Ah hah, more ignorance. Tony Hawk is focused on doing stunts and tricks. JGR is not. There are seriously about a half-dozen tricks in the game. It's entirely focused on moving around the levels and tagging.
| Quote: | | 7- Resident evil 4 is shit compared to original. Its action game with stupid story that didnt bring anything new it only destroyed the game.That kind of camera was done long before RE4. RE 1 that was inovation. |
What did RE1 do that Alone in the Dark didn't?
| Quote: | | 8- People do that in RL so you cant call that inovation because it was copied. |
So, nothing in videogames is innovative if you can do it in real life?
| Quote: | | 10- No Sega did it before with Dreamcast. |
Uh, no. They didn't.
11- Y that was cool game. Upgraded POP.
| Quote: | | So like i said with massive gain in popularity of consoles innovation died. |
No, it didn't.
| Quote: | | Most games you mentioned where japanese arcade games that were ported to consoles. |
Uh, no. Not a single one I mentioned is like that. Rock Band and Guitar Hero are clearly inspired by Guitar Freaks, but that's it.
Making such exaggerated statements doesn't make you sound any smarter.
| Quote: | | You need to face fact that 99% games made today for console are button mashing pos with no depth. Check SS2 or NWN or HL or CIV and you will see what depth and replay value means. Its not omg i can shoot with 2 guns,or how everything explodes around you. |
You need to face the fact that 99% of all games ever, for the past 30+ years, have been simple, "arcadey" games, not deep, complex games like you're pretending all PC games are, and no console game has ever been. |
3- I dont know how to spell japanese.Check japanes sites which are about arcade games.
6- Y in Tany hawk you HAVE missions that involve TAGGING. Did you play it all ?
7- You are right there.
8- No i didnt say that. You cant call something INNOVATING (you do know the meaning of the word?) if its copied from RL.
10- I guess WIKI lies then. Sega had made an attempt to capitalize on the ever-growing online gaming scene when it launched the Dreamcast video game console in 1999, including online support as standard. However, due to lack of widespread broadband adoption at the time, the Dreamcast shipped with only a dial-up modem while a later-released broadband adapter was not widely supported or widely available. Downloadable content was available, though limited in size due to the narrowband connection and the size limitations of a memory card. The online features, while praised as innovative, were largely considered a failure, and the Dreamcast's immediate competitors, the Playstation 2 and Nintendo Gamecube did not ship with built-in network adapters.
Shadow of the Colossus-Jap game
Katamari Damacy-Jap game
Jet Grind Radio-Jap game
Resident Evil 4-Jap game
Elebits-Jap game
Guitar Hero-Jap game
You should get youre facts straight. So civ series isnt deep? Total war isnt deep? Neverwinter nights isnt deep? System shock isnt deep? Baldur's gate isnt deep? Icewind dale? Any city building sim before they were made for consoles? Any sim? Company of heroes? Warcraft? There are like tons of game that i can name for you.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 15:18 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 3- I dont know how to spell japanese.Check japanes sites which are about arcade games. |
No. There is no Japanese arcade game similar in concept to Katamari Damacy, that predates Katamari Damacy.
| Quote: | | 6- Y in Tany hawk you HAVE missions that involve TAGGING. Did you play it all ? |
Again, JGR plays nothing like a TH game. You don't do stunts. You don't do tricks. You run around the world, and tag. That's really it.
| Quote: | | 8- No i didnt say that. You cant call something INNOVATING (you do know the meaning of the word?) if its copied from RL. |
Yes, you can.
| Quote: | | 10- I guess WIKI lies then. Sega had made an attempt to capitalize on the ever-growing online gaming scene when it launched the Dreamcast video game console in 1999, including online support as standard. However, due to lack of widespread broadband adoption at the time, the Dreamcast shipped with only a dial-up modem while a later-released broadband adapter was not widely supported or widely available. Downloadable content was available, though limited in size due to the narrowband connection and the size limitations of a memory card. The online features, while praised as innovative, were largely considered a failure, and the Dreamcast's immediate competitors, the Playstation 2 and Nintendo Gamecube did not ship with built-in network adapters. |
I didn't say that Xbox Live invented online for consoles. I said that Xbox live invented profile-linked, cross-game achievements/merits.
| Quote: | Shadow of the Colossus-Jap game
Katamari Damacy-Jap game
Jet Grind Radio-Jap game
Resident Evil 4-Jap game
Elebits-Jap game
Guitar Hero-Jap game |
Way to bring up a point. Japanese developers are responsible for a large part of the most innovative and unique games of recent years.
Also, Guitar Hero is Japanese? Since when was Neversoft Japanese?
| Quote: | | You should get youre facts straight. So civ series isnt deep? Total war isnt deep? Neverwinter nights isnt deep? System shock isnt deep? Baldur's gate isnt deep? Icewind dale? Any city building sim before they were made for consoles? Any sim? Company of heroes? Warcraft? There are like tons of game that i can name for you. |
No. I'm saying that for every Civilization, there are a hundred simple arcade shooter games.
For the last time, consoles have not killed innovation. If console popularity killed innovation, then why didn't innovation die 15 years ago, during the glory days of the SNES and Genesis?
You're confusing "innovation" with over-complexity.
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Weedo
Posts: 1506
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 16:20 Post subject: |
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Cedge, I just want to say you're absolutely right! It's true that console games were much more innovative than PC games in the last years. Everyone who has a good knowledge about games knows that. You gave some good examples. I would not discuss this with PC-only gamers (or as I like to call them: PC-Nazis) because most of them are simply too stupid and stubborn. They love their PCs and absolutely hate consoles, consoles = crap in their opinion and console games = bad and dumbed down. Having a discussion with such people is only a waste of time. Only gamers who play on consoles and PC are able to discuss this topic rationally.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 16:23 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 16:50 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Also, Guitar Hero is Japanese? Since when was Neversoft Japanese |
Isn't Guitar Hero developed by Harmonix ?
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 18:12 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Quote: | | 3- I dont know how to spell japanese.Check japanes sites which are about arcade games. |
No. There is no Japanese arcade game similar in concept to Katamari Damacy, that predates Katamari Damacy.
| Quote: | | 6- Y in Tany hawk you HAVE missions that involve TAGGING. Did you play it all ? |
Again, JGR plays nothing like a TH game. You don't do stunts. You don't do tricks. You run around the world, and tag. That's really it.
| Quote: | | 8- No i didnt say that. You cant call something INNOVATING (you do know the meaning of the word?) if its copied from RL. |
Yes, you can.
| Quote: | | 10- I guess WIKI lies then. Sega had made an attempt to capitalize on the ever-growing online gaming scene when it launched the Dreamcast video game console in 1999, including online support as standard. However, due to lack of widespread broadband adoption at the time, the Dreamcast shipped with only a dial-up modem while a later-released broadband adapter was not widely supported or widely available. Downloadable content was available, though limited in size due to the narrowband connection and the size limitations of a memory card. The online features, while praised as innovative, were largely considered a failure, and the Dreamcast's immediate competitors, the Playstation 2 and Nintendo Gamecube did not ship with built-in network adapters. |
I didn't say that Xbox Live invented online for consoles. I said that Xbox live invented profile-linked, cross-game achievements/merits.
| Quote: | Shadow of the Colossus-Jap game
Katamari Damacy-Jap game
Jet Grind Radio-Jap game
Resident Evil 4-Jap game
Elebits-Jap game
Guitar Hero-Jap game |
Way to bring up a point. Japanese developers are responsible for a large part of the most innovative and unique games of recent years.
Also, Guitar Hero is Japanese? Since when was Neversoft Japanese?
| Quote: | | You should get youre facts straight. So civ series isnt deep? Total war isnt deep? Neverwinter nights isnt deep? System shock isnt deep? Baldur's gate isnt deep? Icewind dale? Any city building sim before they were made for consoles? Any sim? Company of heroes? Warcraft? There are like tons of game that i can name for you. |
No. I'm saying that for every Civilization, there are a hundred simple arcade shooter games.
For the last time, consoles have not killed innovation. If console popularity killed innovation, then why didn't innovation die 15 years ago, during the glory days of the SNES and Genesis?
You're confusing "innovation" with over-complexity. |
So for you there is no game like Katamari Damacy. Game where you roll ball around map that collects crap around it? You should check harder then. One of the aspects of the Tony Hawk was making tags. To make tag you didnt have to do tricks. So taking one part of game into another doesnt make it new or inovative. So for you when first soccer game was made it was innovative? How was that innovative when people are playing that for hundreds of years?Ok i was wrong about Guitar Hero. They only cloned arcade game and made it for console. It still doesnt change the fact that it was clone from arcades and it was new when it hit arcades. I dont know all those hundreds of arcade shooters for PC that are made after every civ game. Plz point me to first 50 so i know them to. So youre point is based on couple of console games that were clones from arcades and couple of uniques. Thats it? One diablo blows all these games dude. One diablo changed whole concept of gaming. Like did Wow with MMORPG, as did Warcraft with RTS, as did Fallout with vast world and things you can do, Doom did it for FPS . There are hundreds more that changed the concept and how some games should be played. These games were true innovators that introduced something new that all other games tryed to copy. Youre games no one tryed to copy because they didnt bring anything new or groundbreaking. Mario did that but i guess you forgot to mention him. Oh FYI i owned all consoles til x360 so i can make my own opinion based on my xp. Civ series has more depth,more inovation,more replay value then any game i have ever played on any console. You need to accept the fact that console games are for casual people that dont wanna spend time on figuring out how things work in game world because it simply takes to much of their time. Thing is that games for consoles are to shallow so when ported to PC people bash them. And they have the right to do so because they have the right to their opinion. So do you but it still doesnt change the fact that one Morrowind was 100% more complex when was made for PC then Oblivion that was made for consoles. Or that CIV on x360 will be dumbed down crap, same as was Bioshock with no inventory and preset path.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 18:19 Post subject: |
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| Weedo wrote: | | Cedge, I just want to say you're absolutely right! It's true that console games were much more innovative than PC games in the last years. Everyone who has a good knowledge about games knows that. You gave some good examples. I would not discuss this with PC-only gamers (or as I like to call them: PC-Nazis) because most of them are simply too stupid and stubborn. They love their PCs and absolutely hate consoles, consoles = crap in their opinion and console games = bad and dumbed down. Having a discussion with such people is only a waste of time. Only gamers who play on consoles and PC are able to discuss this topic rationally. |
Word.
| Zotten wrote: | | Isn't Guitar Hero developed by Harmonix ? |
Not anymore. Harmonix is owned by MTV now, and just finished Rock Band.
| Quote: | | So for you there is no game like Katamari Damacy. Game where you roll ball around map that collects crap around it? You should check harder then. One of the aspects of the Tony Hawk was making tags. To make tag you didnt have to do tricks. So taking one part of game into another doesnt make it new or inovative. So for you when first soccer game was made it was innovative? How was that innovative when people are playing that for hundreds of years?Ok i was wrong about Guitar Hero. They only cloned arcade game and made it for console. It still doesnt change the fact that it was clone from arcades and it was new when it hit arcades. I dont know all those hundreds of arcade shooters for PC that are made after every civ game. Plz point me to first 50 so i know them to. So youre point is based on couple of console games that were clones from arcades and couple of uniques. Thats it? One diablo blows all these games dude. One diablo changed whole concept of gaming. Like did Wow with MMORPG, as did Warcraft with RTS, as did Fallout with vast world and things you can do, Doom did it for FPS . There are hundreds more that changed the concept and how some games should be played. These games were true innovators that introduced something new that all other games tryed to copy. Youre games no one tryed to copy because they didnt bring anything new or groundbreaking. Mario did that but i guess you forgot to mention him. Oh FYI i owned all consoles til x360 so i can make my own opinion based on my xp. Civ series has more depth,more inovation,more replay value then any game i have ever played on any console. You need to accept the fact that console games are for casual people that dont wanna spend time on figuring out how things work in game world because it simply takes to much of their time. Thing is that games for consoles are to shallow so when ported to PC people bash them. And they have the right to do so because they have the right to their opinion. So do you but it still doesnt change the fact that one Morrowind was 100% more complex when was made for PC then Oblivion that was made for consoles. Or that CIV on x360 will be dumbed down crap, same as was Bioshock with no inventory and preset path. |
Katamari Damacy plays like Tony Hawk...you are quite possibly the first person to make that analogy, and it's quite possibly the worst I've ever heard.
What has any Warcraft game done that's original? What did Diablo do that's original?
Morrowind was co-developed for both PC and Xbox. Which shoots down the idea that a series being on consoles automatically "dumbs it down."
Again, you're ridiculously biased, and you need to shut up. I, however, have no bias or hatred toward either consoles or PC games, and thus, I'm able to understand and enjoy the full breadth of gaming.
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 18:40 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Weedo wrote: | | Cedge, I just want to say you're absolutely right! It's true that console games were much more innovative than PC games in the last years. Everyone who has a good knowledge about games knows that. You gave some good examples. I would not discuss this with PC-only gamers (or as I like to call them: PC-Nazis) because most of them are simply too stupid and stubborn. They love their PCs and absolutely hate consoles, consoles = crap in their opinion and console games = bad and dumbed down. Having a discussion with such people is only a waste of time. Only gamers who play on consoles and PC are able to discuss this topic rationally. |
Word.
| Zotten wrote: | | Isn't Guitar Hero developed by Harmonix ? |
Not anymore. Harmonix is owned by MTV now, and just finished Rock Band.
| Quote: | | So for you there is no game like Katamari Damacy. Game where you roll ball around map that collects crap around it? You should check harder then. One of the aspects of the Tony Hawk was making tags. To make tag you didnt have to do tricks. So taking one part of game into another doesnt make it new or inovative. So for you when first soccer game was made it was innovative? How was that innovative when people are playing that for hundreds of years?Ok i was wrong about Guitar Hero. They only cloned arcade game and made it for console. It still doesnt change the fact that it was clone from arcades and it was new when it hit arcades. I dont know all those hundreds of arcade shooters for PC that are made after every civ game. Plz point me to first 50 so i know them to. So youre point is based on couple of console games that were clones from arcades and couple of uniques. Thats it? One diablo blows all these games dude. One diablo changed whole concept of gaming. Like did Wow with MMORPG, as did Warcraft with RTS, as did Fallout with vast world and things you can do, Doom did it for FPS . There are hundreds more that changed the concept and how some games should be played. These games were true innovators that introduced something new that all other games tryed to copy. Youre games no one tryed to copy because they didnt bring anything new or groundbreaking. Mario did that but i guess you forgot to mention him. Oh FYI i owned all consoles til x360 so i can make my own opinion based on my xp. Civ series has more depth,more inovation,more replay value then any game i have ever played on any console. You need to accept the fact that console games are for casual people that dont wanna spend time on figuring out how things work in game world because it simply takes to much of their time. Thing is that games for consoles are to shallow so when ported to PC people bash them. And they have the right to do so because they have the right to their opinion. So do you but it still doesnt change the fact that one Morrowind was 100% more complex when was made for PC then Oblivion that was made for consoles. Or that CIV on x360 will be dumbed down crap, same as was Bioshock with no inventory and preset path. |
Katamari Damacy plays like Tony Hawk...you are quite possibly the first person to make that analogy, and it's quite possibly the worst I've ever heard.
What has any Warcraft game done that's original? What did Diablo do that's original?
Morrowind was co-developed for both PC and Xbox. Which shoots down the idea that a series being on consoles automatically "dumbs it down."
Again, you're ridiculously biased, and you need to shut up. I, however, have no bias or hatred toward either consoles or PC games, and thus, I'm able to understand and enjoy the full breadth of gaming. |
You knew very well what did Tony Hawk part relate to. Here is a hint - Jet Grind Radio.
What did Diablo do? Idk maybe create first ever point and click hack and slash RPG? WoW created online world that every other MMORPG tryes to copy.Morrowind wasnt co-developed, it was made for PC then it was ported to xbox. Im not biased,im using facts. Calling someone ,that owned every console from nes to ps2 and started using PCs when C64 was introduced, biased is retarded at best.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 18:57 Post subject: |
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| Nakitu wrote: | | You knew very well what did Tony Hawk part relate to. Here is a hint - Jet Grind Radio. |
Again, if you think Jet Grind Radio plays even vaguely like Tony Hawk, then you've never played it.
| Quote: | | What did Diablo do? Idk maybe create first ever point and click hack and slash RPG? |
There were other hack and slash-type RPGs years before Diablo, though indeed, I can't think of any that used the mouse. But regardless, it was an existing genre, and they just added a new control method.
| Quote: | | WoW created online world that every other MMORPG tryes to copy. |
| Quote: | | Morrowind wasnt co-developed, it was made for PC then it was ported to xbox. |
No. It was developed for both at the same time, and both the PC and Xbox versions were released in the same week (May 1st, 2002 for PC, and May 6, 2002 for Xbox).
| Quote: | | Im not biased,im using facts. |
No, you're using your opinions.
| Quote: | | Calling someone ,that owned every console from nes to ps2 and started using PCs when C64 was introduced, biased is retarded at best. |
It doesn't matter what you've owned; you can still be biased. And you clearly are.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 19:00 Post subject: |
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Any mod to move this to the void? No news on the game, just retards debating a lost cause.
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Nakitu
Posts: 1144
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 19:10 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Nakitu wrote: | | You knew very well what did Tony Hawk part relate to. Here is a hint - Jet Grind Radio. |
Again, if you think Jet Grind Radio plays even vaguely like Tony Hawk, then you've never played it.
| Quote: | | What did Diablo do? Idk maybe create first ever point and click hack and slash RPG? |
There were other hack and slash-type RPGs years before Diablo, though indeed, I can't think of any that used the mouse. But regardless, it was an existing genre, and they just added a new control method.
| Quote: | | WoW created online world that every other MMORPG tryes to copy. |
| Quote: | | Morrowind wasnt co-developed, it was made for PC then it was ported to xbox. |
No. It was developed for both at the same time, and both the PC and Xbox versions were released in the same week (May 1st, 2002 for PC, and May 6, 2002 for Xbox).
| Quote: | | Im not biased,im using facts. |
No, you're using your opinions.
| Quote: | | Calling someone ,that owned every console from nes to ps2 and started using PCs when C64 was introduced, biased is retarded at best. |
It doesn't matter what you've owned; you can still be biased. And you clearly are. |
No i didnt say it playes the same i said it they used the part of the Tony Hawk and made game about it. Learn to read.
What game before Diablo was hack and slash RPG? Plz name them i wanna know. I hope you are not thinking about AD&D?
Hmmm y wow made online world that all other MMORPGs try to copy.
Wow and i am biased? When did Oblivion came on PC? Ohhhhhh the same day as did on x360. But how can that be since it was made for x360 and then ported to PC? Idk it must be some kind of magic.
No these are facts and you need to dispute them which you clearly didnt do.
I have more xp in gaming then you do and thats obvious to me since only games you mentioned are from y2k. My guess is you never played one Flashback or Wolf 3d or any of the wizardry series. If you did then you wouldnt consider ball rolling around the floor collecting crap innovation in gaming.
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| Posted: Wed, 28th Nov 2007 19:33 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | Any mod to move this to the void? No news on the game, just retards debating a lost cause. |
You tried debating about it, you embarrassed yourself, so did Cartoon & SpykeZ.
None of you apparently know enough about console gaming to have any effect on this argument.
This is my honest opinion after reading the last 3 pages, if you take any offense from it, well, suck my chocolate salty balls.
Blame! don't act!
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