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Parallax_
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Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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 Posted: Mon, 23rd Apr 2007 15:47 Post subject: |
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That's all fine and dandy, but it has nothing to do with the world feeling alive, as opposed to dead.
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Apr 2007 16:14 Post subject: |
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mYslead
Posts: 738
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Apr 2007 23:34 Post subject: |
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everything you guys are talking about Oblivion & Stalker can be arranged via modding.
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Apr 2007 23:53 Post subject: |
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I saw a mudcrab the other day...
Meh, if you want to see better example of living world, try space rangers 2.
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd Apr 2007 23:55 Post subject: |
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| mYslead wrote: | | everything you guys are talking about Oblivion & Stalker can be arranged via modding. |
That's nice, some of us what to buy a good game in the first place. Not one half-done with a buggy engine
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 00:19 Post subject: |
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Played them all, and Gothic 2 had by far the most alive world to me. Not as dynamic as oblivions maybe, but the scripting was excellent and the visuals gave the game a very ntural living atmosphere. oblivion was completely sterile compared to it.
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 01:28 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | | mYslead wrote: | | everything you guys are talking about Oblivion & Stalker can be arranged via modding. |
That's nice, some of us what to buy a good game in the first place. Not one half-done with a buggy engine |
Both Oblivion and Stalker are bug-free experiences if you have a half-decent computer. Furthermore that kind of complexity that people crave is even more taxing on a processing and developmental level (imagine the bug testing  ). Both games are highly polished considering their scope. |
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 02:16 Post subject: |
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| alas.away wrote: | Alive? Level scaled monsters that react only to you? Main stories that just sit around and wait for you to solve them, nevermind the anarchy that's happening? Or i could sum it up with this:
Remember going to Kvatch after a year of playing? Still burning? Still in ruins? People still crying over their lost city like they lost it just a minute ago?
Dead. |
In order to sustain a narrative, one must use triggers and scripts. Otherwise, you may take too long and find out that everything has already happened. The good thing about Oblivion is that you can literally customize it to suit your specific tastes. An Oblivion game with mods is a far different gaming experience than vanilla Oblivion.
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 05:33 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Both Oblivion and Stalker are bug-free experiences if you have a half-decent computer. |
This is a false statement. Bugs have nothing to do with whether your computer would for example be mid range, low end or high end. If they do, then they're the weirdest bugs I've ever heard of. You're likely referring to performance, which is not what I was referencing.
intel ultra 7 265k, 64gb ram, 3070
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 05:50 Post subject: |
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| saddamhussein wrote: | | Played them all, and Gothic 2 had by far the most alive world to me. Not as dynamic as oblivions maybe, but the scripting was excellent and the visuals gave the game a very ntural living atmosphere. oblivion was completely sterile compared to it. |
Have you played Gothic 1? That world was superior to Gothic 2's in terms of how alive it was. I remember there were a few quests where depending on how long you took someone may have already completed it before you, you might end up meeting them on the way there and they're on the way back having already got the item or whatever!
Stalkers world has a level of unpredictability in that that does make the world seem alive, but the NPC's are quite limited in their actions. Still, it's much better then oblivion in that regard.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 10:09 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | | This is a false statement. Bugs have nothing to do with whether your computer would for example be mid range, low end or high end. If they do, then they're the weirdest bugs I've ever heard of. You're likely referring to performance, which is not what I was referencing. |
No it aint. Some bugs are related to specific hardware and configurations. |
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 12:30 Post subject: |
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I agree that modding is a great way to enhance your game.
Gothic has a great world, always had. Oblivion was ,true to the work the man used, sterile, but maybe thats just how they brushed off me. The dungeons have a better living atmosphere then the world. Beth lacks the imagination to pull something great off. Just remember the way Black Isle made great quests that werer always in some way fantastic or storyworthy. Oblivion had no such quests - maybe the ghost in the gouse thing. It just had generic dungeons and caves and more or less same storys in the quests, but thats just how I see t seeing as which i see that some of you dont agree and of course i wont start a flame war here.
but to stay ontopic - it's easy to design a world, but it's what happens in it that makes the full of life, i just hope that fallout 3 will have such a world, where you dont have to be in a city to see some movement...
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73220
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 13:01 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | crossmr wrote: | | This is a false statement. Bugs have nothing to do with whether your computer would for example be mid range, low end or high end. If they do, then they're the weirdest bugs I've ever heard of. You're likely referring to performance, which is not what I was referencing. |
No it aint. Some bugs are related to specific hardware and configurations. |
Yeah, and sometimes having a 5 year old PC is better than having 5 months old PC, because some games (still) don't support 800GTX. |
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crossmr
Posts: 2966
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 23:29 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | crossmr wrote: | | This is a false statement. Bugs have nothing to do with whether your computer would for example be mid range, low end or high end. If they do, then they're the weirdest bugs I've ever heard of. You're likely referring to performance, which is not what I was referencing. |
No it aint. Some bugs are related to specific hardware and configurations. |
Then quality would have nothing to do with it. Those types of bugs are often random or the result of drivers since everything is handled by windows systems. They're not usually the fault the engine.
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 23:53 Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: | | Parallax_ wrote: | | crossmr wrote: | | This is a false statement. Bugs have nothing to do with whether your computer would for example be mid range, low end or high end. If they do, then they're the weirdest bugs I've ever heard of. You're likely referring to performance, which is not what I was referencing. |
No it aint. Some bugs are related to specific hardware and configurations. |
Then quality would have nothing to do with it. Those types of bugs are often random or the result of drivers since everything is handled by windows systems. They're not usually the fault the engine. |
It's not even a matter of semantics afaik - the term 'bug' in relation to software/hardware can refer to any number of things, and performance related bugs (dependent on hardware) do exist. Anyway my point was merely that assuming you can run the game(s); you'll have a relatively bug free experience.
But hey, the Fallout series is not bug free incidentally. If there are no bugs then the scripting just ain't detailed enough  |
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mYslead
Posts: 738
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue, 24th Apr 2007 23:58 Post subject: |
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| alas.away wrote: | | I agree that modding is a great way to enhance your game |
not too sure about Oblivion since, when it came out my computer sucked [alot] so i never really got around to play it. but the modding community of Stalker is awesome. they've unlocked the cars and 100% unscripted ai (but that screw the main storyline lol) and soooo many other stuff. and the SDK are not even out yet. just playing around in the scripts.
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 11:45 Post subject: |
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The modding community of STALKER sucks compared to Oblivion, but then again they don't have an SDK yet. Who knows if they ever will, though.
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Mutantius
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Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 12:02 Post subject: |
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So let me get this straight, this will be an oblivion type of fallout game where they are trying to re-create the scenery and atmosphere of Fallout in a real 3D enviroment? What not to like??
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 12:07 Post subject: |
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Ewww, 3D?
No way. I want my Fallout like it was Isometric 2D.
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Parallax_
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Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 12:10 Post subject: |
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Ok, 2D was good for it's time, nobody can deny that. But today it's shite. Bring on the 3D!
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 13:56 Post subject: |
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2D is best, particularly in the Baldurs Gate style. Varied, rich, detailed and sharp environments - and because of the nature of the engine itself the game is automatically geared towards dialogue which is the hallmark of any decent RPG (Deus Ex is the only 3D outing to my mind which got this right).
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Ankh
Posts: 23348
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 14:56 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | Ok, 2D was good for it's time, nobody can deny that. But today it's shite. Bring on the 3D! |
+1
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 17:33 Post subject: |
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| Parallax_ wrote: | | Ok, 2D was good for it's time, nobody can deny that. But today it's shite. Bring on the 3D! |
-1
I don't think its shit, but i dont mind if this new fallout is in 3D neither.
Fallout is not about graphics, Its story-line, gameplay and TURN-BASED combat!!! FFS !!Why all people is crying about turn based. If you dont like it dont play it! you have many RTS games to play!!
I dont know why i get angry, actualy Im sure it wont be turn based  |
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Parallax_
VIP Member
Posts: 6422
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 17:45 Post subject: |
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Then I think ya'all are in for a big disappointment 
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 18:40 Post subject: |
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| liansk wrote: | | k-limero wrote: | | Parallax_ wrote: | | Ok, 2D was good for it's time, nobody can deny that. But today it's shite. Bring on the 3D! |
-1
I don't think its shit, but i dont mind if this new fallout is in 3D neither.
Fallout is not about graphics, Its story-line, gameplay and TURN-BASED combat!!! FFS !!Why all people is crying about turn based. If you dont like it dont play it! you have many RTS games to play!!
I dont know why i get angry, actualy Im sure it wont be turn based |
| Quote: | | If you dont like it dont play it! |
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Ok, what other TBS game should i play. Tell me only one. |
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 19:08 Post subject: |
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| Ispep wrote: | | gamedude07 wrote: | | If they sack the turn based system and everything else that made fallout what it is this old fallout fan wont be buying it.Im pretty sick of this "new-school" trash.Seems every decade that goes by the newer generation gets worse.(insert shakes head here) |
I'm re-playing Fallout 2 this very minute (nostalgia got the better of me) and if I had one wish it would be for the turn based system to die a horrible death and never ever return. Honestly, go back and re-play the games. The magic, the gameplay. It's all still there - it's as addictive as ever - but you'll be tearing your hair out and having heart attacks every time you hear the combat indicator switch on. It's fucking torture (and that's no exaggeration)! |
I agree with you only because since playing Fallout I've played games like Silent Storm and Temple of Elemental Evil with much more advanced turn-based engines. Even FO Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel had a much better combat engine than either of the FO games.
Having said that, I'd take an engine as primitive as FO1 over realtime, first-person, post-apoc Oblivion garbage. They could easily have made a fully 3D game with flashy graphics, physics, destructible environments and all the other bells and whistles that the ADD generation seems to need to enjoy a game without throwing away what made Fallout great.
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Ispep
VIP Member
Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Wed, 25th Apr 2007 21:26 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I agree with you only because since playing Fallout I've played games like Silent Storm and Temple of Elemental Evil with much more advanced turn-based engines. Even FO Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel had a much better combat engine than either of the FO games. |
Good point. I remember enjoying Silent Storm (it's combat particularly) but I can't really recall the specifics of how the combat system worked. Still, within an enviroment like Fallout's it would still possibly have it's drawbacks. Silent Storm was mission based if I remember right?
| Quote: | | Having said that, I'd take an engine as primitive as FO1 over realtime, first-person, post-apoc Oblivion garbage. |
Amen to that! No offense to the first-person perspective, or the Oblivion engine but the fact is that you make better role playing games in the 2D perspective because that's your primary focus. 3D is the future, sure, but like the emergence of CGI in movies there are some people who don't understand moderation. |
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