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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14905
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 Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 09:07 Post subject: |
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I really don't get your obsession with the EU.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11820
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 09:16 Post subject: |
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{spoiler for size}
 Spoiler: | What is not gonna happen?? It's allready happening. The world is moving towards totalitarianism fast the last 2 decades. The trend is very bad. And totalitarianism comes in many forms: former communist states, Islam, Trumpism/the rich, the EU, etc.
People will simply not be able to revolt. The AI revolution will give many new tools for total goverment control.
I think you don't know history. Supression is the norm, the free world we live in now is the exception. Goverments allready have potent tools to supress the people, these will get better fast. And even with old tech it's not even that hard to supress people. A retarded nation like North Korea can pull it off.
So revolts can be easilty supressed. More so, goverments will try to influence the media so people will not organize themselves. This is allready in almost every major nation. Also in 'free' countries'. (just check the EU digital rights act). The intend doesn't even have to be evil, the goal is the same, total control.
Then the second question: does the leadership want to supress the people?
Yes, for various reasons. First is the psyche of the ruler. Power is their game, it's fun, the backlash doesn't matter. Second people don't like to lose stuff. How richer someone becomes, how more feared and paranoid they are to lose it all. When the rich see they have it all and the masses have nothing and can't escape, they will know what's comming. So they are gonna do something about it using their power. Also happening: I think most people consider Trump a retard, but he's good for buissiness. Wallstreet is his friend as a result.
And it doesn't even have to be the rich. It can aslo be the bureacratic elite that supresses the people (China, personally I would add the EU, but not everyone is gonna agree on this  )
If there aren't enough jobs for people to be usefull, the haves will use their power to keep it that way. And live will probably be misserable for the have nots. |
So if they have this power, and always had it, and always could just suppress us. What are the chances it actually happens while we are here to see it? OR, is it that this is the only time we CAN see by being here in this window of time, so we assume its us...I say the latter.
It's the Shepard's Tone of societal shift. that never actually rises or falls. But we all hear it doing it when we have our chance to listen by being alive, now. Others have had it in the past, or will in the future..
People often perceive directional decline during structural change. So people has said what you said for centuries.
Examples of how people have always said the same thing. I cut off at a time limit of only up to 300 ish years back to list. Even Ancient Greece: Hesiod’s Works and Days. It is literally saying, the same sentiment you are saying, 2,700 years ago.
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1740s London crime panic: newspapers amplified fears that urban crime meant pollical overtake to control it, and social collapse.
Gin Craze, 1700s Britain: alcohol panic framed moral decay, women, cities, and weak government, fear govt would overtake and collapse us.
French Revolution era: conservatives saw liberty/equality as mob rule; radicals saw monarchy as tyranny.
Industrial Revolution: factories, cities, machines, and class unrest were treated as destroying the old social order. Fears Govt would regulate it and take possession of it all for power.
Fin de siecle, 1880s–1890s:widespread talk of decadence, degeneration, and Western decline.
First Red Scare, 1919–1920: fear of radicals/immigrants led to fear of OneWorld Soviet Union tyrannical govt.
[Second Red Scare too]
(and so on and so forth)
My country (US) was populated by ordinary people willing to risk a sea trip for, and partially founded on, fear of arbitrary power and tyranny of British powers to take over the world and suppress the citizens to iron rule (never happened), Because they heard the tone going down back when they exists to say they hear it too.
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And again, you are also doing: All or nothing, as the only possible outcomes.
So easy to pick 'all', since it can be pointed out with only those two outcomes as options:
"I have to be right, because I know it's not the 'nothing is going to happen' option. So 'All' is all that is left for it to be. "
Where is couleur Hyperbole Post signature joke when you need it.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 09:51 Post subject: |
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^ all or nothing gets tiresome, life is more like shades of gray.
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 10:05 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | {spoiler for size}
| Spoiler: | What is not gonna happen?? It's allready happening. The world is moving towards totalitarianism fast the last 2 decades. The trend is very bad. And totalitarianism comes in many forms: former communist states, Islam, Trumpism/the rich, the EU, etc.
People will simply not be able to revolt. The AI revolution will give many new tools for total goverment control.
I think you don't know history. Supression is the norm, the free world we live in now is the exception. Goverments allready have potent tools to supress the people, these will get better fast. And even with old tech it's not even that hard to supress people. A retarded nation like North Korea can pull it off.
So revolts can be easilty supressed. More so, goverments will try to influence the media so people will not organize themselves. This is allready in almost every major nation. Also in 'free' countries'. (just check the EU digital rights act). The intend doesn't even have to be evil, the goal is the same, total control.
Then the second question: does the leadership want to supress the people?
Yes, for various reasons. First is the psyche of the ruler. Power is their game, it's fun, the backlash doesn't matter. Second people don't like to lose stuff. How richer someone becomes, how more feared and paranoid they are to lose it all. When the rich see they have it all and the masses have nothing and can't escape, they will know what's comming. So they are gonna do something about it using their power. Also happening: I think most people consider Trump a retard, but he's good for buissiness. Wallstreet is his friend as a result.
And it doesn't even have to be the rich. It can aslo be the bureacratic elite that supresses the people (China, personally I would add the EU, but not everyone is gonna agree on this )
If there aren't enough jobs for people to be usefull, the haves will use their power to keep it that way. And live will probably be misserable for the have nots. |
So if they have this power, and always had it, and always could just suppress us. What are the chances it actually happens while we are here to see it? OR, is it that this is the only time we CAN see by being here in this window of time, so we assume its us...I say the latter.
It's the Shepard's Tone of societal shift. that never actually rises or falls. But we all hear it doing it when we have our chance to listen by being alive, now. Others have had it in the past, or will in the future..
People often perceive directional decline during structural change. So people has said what you said for centuries.
Examples of how people have always said the same thing. I cut off at a time limit of only up to 300 ish years back to list. Even Ancient Greece: Hesiod’s Works and Days. It is literally saying, the same sentiment you are saying, 2,700 years ago.
---
1740s London crime panic: newspapers amplified fears that urban crime meant pollical overtake to control it, and social collapse.
Gin Craze, 1700s Britain: alcohol panic framed moral decay, women, cities, and weak government, fear govt would overtake and collapse us.
French Revolution era: conservatives saw liberty/equality as mob rule; radicals saw monarchy as tyranny.
Industrial Revolution: factories, cities, machines, and class unrest were treated as destroying the old social order. Fears Govt would regulate it and take possession of it all for power.
Fin de siecle, 1880s–1890s:widespread talk of decadence, degeneration, and Western decline.
First Red Scare, 1919–1920: fear of radicals/immigrants led to fear of OneWorld Soviet Union tyrannical govt.
[Second Red Scare too]
(and so on and so forth)
My country (US) was populated by ordinary people willing to risk a sea trip for, and partially founded on, fear of arbitrary power and tyranny of British powers to take over the world and suppress the citizens to iron rule (never happened), Because they heard the tone going down back when they exists to say they hear it too.
---
And again, you are also doing: All or nothing, as the only possible outcomes.
So easy to pick 'all', since it can be pointed out with only those two outcomes as options:
"I have to be right, because I know it's not the 'nothing is going to happen' option. So 'All' is all that is left for it to be. "
Where is couleur Hyperbole Post signature joke when you need it. |
It's not about panic or fears. Btw I wasn't this pessimistic 10 years ago (far from it). But it's clear totalitarianism is on the rise. Be it Putin, China, Islam, Trump (EU  ). The trend made a u turn about 15 years ago. Remember that Belarus was "the last dicatorship in Europe". What a world we had then.
I personally think this is a result of digitalisaton: it gives goverments more options for control. But you don't have to agree with that.
Second: when the middle class declines cause of AI, the people lose power and capital becomes king. Just like in the 19th century were most people just had to work in a factory.
It's a reverse trend. You'll need a middle class for freedom.
And third I don't believe we have become better humans since early history. It's been shit most of the time, circumstances can make things shit again.
| couleur wrote: | | I really don't get your obsession with the EU. |
It's the supreme goverment body that is trying very hard to escape democratic control. They are open about this. Plenty of EU reports talking about strategies to control the local narative. And, at least in the Netherlands, this is starting to influence our lives in a bad way.
Uncontroled migration, the destrcution of the real economy in favour of more goverment control, censorship, etc. We have 400k homes short, migrants comming in even bigger numbers and then you'll hear MSM and pro EU politicians and they just outright deny there is a problem at all.
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vurt
Posts: 14294
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 14:37 Post subject: |
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If I upload an image and bug it about it then it tells me I have to wait until another upload+description, but it's not a long wait maybe 4 hours.
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vurt
Posts: 14294
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 15:00 Post subject: |
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yes for image creation etc i do think i have seen that.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 74910
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 15:13 Post subject: |
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vurt
Posts: 14294
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 15:31 Post subject: |
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Like I wanna talk to Ai all day 
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vurt
Posts: 14294
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 15:35 Post subject: |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11820
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 20:44 Post subject: |
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| friketje wrote: | | But it's clear totalitarianism is on the rise. |
I did read the whole post, just this is the part that is the crux of our disagreement. the rest is extension of this we are opposing on.
Sure, but people have thought that in basically every era. There has never been a time in history where the common class vs the elite class has not had that tensional fear among those in that time.
Romans living under bad emperors probably thought the same. Europeans fleeing monarchies or religious persecution thought the same. People living through revolutions, fascism, communism, the Cold War, McCarthyism, civil wars, crime panics, industrialization, mass migration, and every “society is collapsing” moment thought the same too.
And a world collapsing "Elite ruling OneOrder" never happened.
That doesn’t mean they were always wrong. It means every generation hears the same Shepard tone and thinks, “This is it. This is when it finally drops.”
Hindsight makes the past feel more manageable because we already know what happened. Living through it now feels different because you’re not reading about scared people in a history book. You’re the scared person in the middle of it without the benefit of a history book to tell you how it's going to end.
So I’m not saying totalitarianism isn’t a threat. It is. It always was. I’m saying the feeling that it is uniquely, obviously, finally happening now is partly because now is the only part of history we personally have to live through.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 21:11 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | | friketje wrote: | | But it's clear totalitarianism is on the rise. |
I did read the whole post, just this is the part that is the crux of our disagreement. the rest is extension of this we are opposing on.
And a world collapsing "Elite ruling OneOrder" never happened.
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The elite ruling and surpressing the people is the norm.
Nazi Germany, the USSR. Current China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan.
More ancient the Romans (plebs is a Roman world), the feudal system.
Etc, etc, etc.
Western society is an anamoly in history.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 74910
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Fri, 22nd May 2026 23:42 Post subject: |
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| friketje wrote: | | Western society is an anal mole in history. |
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11820
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 23rd May 2026 01:43 Post subject: |
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| friketje wrote: | | Western society is an anamoly in history. |
Not sure what you mean, explain?
I feel your connotation of calling it that implies inferior. A rare/exceptional outlier could be better/worse/equal but different. But you do not explain which it is, just that it's an outlier.
Which to me anomaly is the wrong word, as what it is, is just a natural progression of a direction some went. saying anomaly seems to feel it means 'something went wrong' in context of its usage here. Or 'not naturally occured'.
Divergence I feel is a more appropriate word? Unless you meant anomaly for a reason.
And even if it is an anomaly.
Humans will still human. Those that want power, and those that can lose it dont change. It being western society doesn't change much about how humans behave when self interest is involved.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Sat, 23rd May 2026 11:30 Post subject: |
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In the future either we all get passive capital income via AI wealth fund dividends, or they have to outright eliminate 80-90% of humans.
This middle way of slowly subjugating everyone with AI surveillance and create a massive slave underclass is not going to work. You can't keep over 7 billion people in a cage and expect this to be stable longterm.
I'm very pro-AI but now it's time to add fuel to the anti-AI fire to force a reaction.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7964
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sat, 23rd May 2026 12:14 Post subject: |
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Or... nothing like that will ever come to pass and AI technology will find its place in society like the internet did after the dotcom bubble early 2000.
The numbers don't decide, the system is a lie. The river running dry, the wings of butterflies.
And you may pour us away like soup. Like we're pretty broken flowers.
We'll take back what is ours. One day at a time.
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fucking copilot got very expensive 
