Kingdom Come: Deliverance / Deliverance II
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konkol84




Posts: 3666
Location: Po(o)land
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 09:14    Post subject:
Will be hilarious if this one flops because of nonsense like that Laughing from a purely business point of view it would be much safer to remove it so that it does not go down the failguard path, they had all the time in the world to do it


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Nodrim




Posts: 9483
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 09:23    Post subject:
Probably Veilguard's failure has more to do with a fact that it looks dated as hell and plays like a mobile game despite having the price of an AAA.
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vurt




Posts: 13641
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 09:36    Post subject:
I might take it back... depends on how it's done. I've always said that we should be able to have these themes, if its well written / makes sense. Let's say it's some super rare option and you end up with a gay romance and it's found out (someone saw them), they're both executed. You basically just start a death scene with a gay romance.

BUT if it's like an option for a lot of dudes you meet, then no, this is a typical modern audience thing.

We ARE very quick to jump to conclusions for a good reason, we are getting sick of it Razz
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Kezmark




Posts: 494

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 09:42    Post subject:
Honestly I am baffled by how inept these inclusive activist are at pushing their own shit agenda. You'd almost say they are intentionally self-sabotaging.

You could have just had some gay characters, maybe even part of the story in a way that makes sense, and I'd argue, outside of a few extreme right wing mentalists, most people would be fine with it. But actually turning Henry, who at no point showed any bi tendencies in the first game, in to being bisexual .... like why? That just completely shows why you're doing it. You don't care you're fucking ruining your story by introducing inconsistencies like this, and that just makes me wonder how many more issues there are with the writing.

Why not just have you make a new character and be whatever the fuck you want? Sure as hell would help with the whole reset in skill level as well, so two problems fixed with one solution. Instead, you ham-fist this bs in. And it is only made worse by the guy's past stances against woke bs.
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JHawkins




Posts: 976

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 09:59    Post subject:
Wasnt one of the main Antagonists in the first game gay too? dont remember people making a huge deal out of it back then.


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vurt




Posts: 13641
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 10:05    Post subject:
Why would that matter? Is it really the same as suddenly giving your character an option to be in gay relations? No it isn't.

The main villain being gay is something most would say is pretty #based Cool , a woke game dev would make him Trump.
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JHawkins




Posts: 976

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 10:08    Post subject:
So far ive only seen a single source for that claim with no proof to back it up and a lot of people being outraged about it. Granted ive been out of it for the last 24 hours and havent checked up on news yet.


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sunseeker




Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 10:09    Post subject:
JHawkins wrote:
Wasnt one of the main Antagonists in the first game gay too? dont remember people making a huge deal out of it back then.


Because back then it was based because it didn't have people above a certain level of melanin. And the woke-left was mad so the woke-right was happy.


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vurt




Posts: 13641
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 10:15    Post subject:
JHawkins wrote:
So far ive only seen a single source for that claim with no proof to back it up and a lot of people being outraged about it. Granted ive been out of it for the last 24 hours and havent checked up on news yet.


which claim? gay option(s)? I've already linked to Vavra's own post about it on X.

"KCD is an RPG, you are responsible for your decisions. If you want Henry to try a same-sex adventure, feel free. If you don’t want to, you don’t have to."


He also talks about the black dude. So it's not stuff without proof.

Do notice he says "a adventure" not adventureS. If this adventure of his ends in death, i'm fine with it.

Edit: yeah, in "a woman's lot" DLC, if you chose to oppose the patriarchy, she dies on the stake. This could be such a thing.
Woke people will be like "yay! we can be gay!" then they fuck around and find out. Would be kind of funny actually.
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qqq




Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 11:19    Post subject:
vurt wrote:


there are tons of people who won't touch it now though (or at least they're not gonna pay for it), people are fed up and they feel they've been lied to.

I don't think it'll appeal to MORE people because you can have gay relationships, it's not like he wanted to advertise it either to get that audience (if it exists), he seems really pissed he had to go out with it and he tries to not make people read it, he claims its a "story spoiler" (no it isn't)



I don't think it'll affect much tbh. This anti-woke movement just seems bigger than it is because we're exposed to it online. But in the broader sense of the world, nobody gives much of a fuck about this stupidity. Near all productions that fail, do so because of poor quality as media, be it games, or shows, whatever. Not because of a coloured man or some woman being in there. If the quality is good, nobody cares about stuff that amounts to 0.0000001% from the total experience. What we see online is a few hundred or thousand at best comentators among millions and tens of millions of clients.


All this anti woke stuff was on the funny side when it was years ago, at the start, and it had the feeling of joking between ourselves, privately somehow, how they're tripping over themselves to shove this in our faces because it was the new hot trend. But these days, a large segment of these mofos have become so obsessed and so stupid, that your're emabrassed to even read them. They honestly make you empathise more with the woke fuckheads, because at the end of the day, their shtick is to just have more of everything. They want their purple coloured gay and tran folks to also be in the game, not for straight and normal people being removed. The anti woke fuckheads just see woke now in absolutely everything.


Remember how Eddie Murphy was one of the biggest stars in the 80s. Xena in mid 90s. You could chose man or woman in fucking Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. In Alien/s you had a woman kicking alien ass while everyone else, every men died. If you'd have these today how would they behave about them ? These morons see woke everywhere they look today. They went into an unhinged extreme where they're just insane delusional retards. Veilguard failed because its not a very good game, not because it has purple colours. Space Marine 2 had a black main character and a transexual writer. The anti woke dumbasses just pretend these dont exist when a game succeds despite their nonsense. If you stay a couple of minutes and just think about it, the colour of the npc's or social themes they might push don't really have much to do with a game being good or bad. It always was and always will be the gameplay and design that dictates how it'll be.


@spaced things out Crying or Very sad


Last edited by qqq on Mon, 20th Jan 2025 12:21; edited 2 times in total
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Stormwolf




Posts: 23492
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 11:27    Post subject:
When glancing over that wall i see "anti woke dumbasses" and other stuff so i'll be happy to inform you that i am not reading that wall of text. You're involved on the other side of the fence or you'd not be so happy as to talk shit about anti woke people.
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qqq




Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 11:47    Post subject:
That's ok, i still like you
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sunseeker




Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 11:59    Post subject:
Stormwolf wrote:
When glancing over that wall i see "anti woke dumbasses" and other stuff so i'll be happy to inform you that i am not reading that wall of text. You're involved on the other side of the fence or you'd not be so happy as to talk shit about anti woke people.


That just proves his point. Anti-woke is a mirror image of woke but just from the other side. Sometimes called the woke-right as opposed to woke-left.

Where original wokesters saw systemic injustice, racism, sexism, now the anti-woke see wokism in everything. Woman protagonist ? Woke! Black person in cast? DEI.

It has become the same level of sensitivity, where even homeopatic levels of what is perceived as progressive make it woke and ruined.

I find it all just all a byproduct of the rage bait youtube grift rotting peoples brains away.
\


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Nodrim




Posts: 9483
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 12:16    Post subject:
qqq wrote:
vurt wrote:


there are tons of people who won't touch it now though (or at least they're not gonna pay for it), people are fed up and they feel they've been lied to.

I don't think it'll appeal to MORE people because you can have gay relationships, it's not like he wanted to advertise it either to get that audience (if it exists), he seems really pissed he had to go out with it and he tries to not make people read it, he claims its a "story spoiler" (no it isn't)



I don't think it'll affect much tbh. This anti-woke movement just seems bigger than it is because we're exposed to it online. But in the broader sense of the world, nobody gives much of a fuck about this stupidity. Near all productions that fail, do so because of poor quality as media, be it games, or shows, whatever. Not because of a coloured man or some woman being in there. If the quality is good, nobody cares about stuff that amounts to 0.0000001% from the total experience. What we see online is a few hundred or thousand at best comentators among millions and tens of millions of clients. All this anti woke stuff was on the funny side when it was years ago, at the start, and it had the feeling of joking between ourselves, privately somehow, how they're tripping over themselves to shove this in our faces because it was the new hot trend. But these days, a large segment of these mofos have become so obsessed and so stupid, that your're emabrassed to even read them. They honestly make you empathise more with the woke fuckheads, because at the end of the day, their shtick is to just have more of everything. They want their purple coloured gay and tran folks to also be in the game, not for straight and normal people being removed. The anti woke fuckheads just see woke now in absolutely everything. Remember how Eddie Murphy was one of the biggest stars in the 80s. Xena in mid 90s. You could chose man or woman in fucking Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. In Alien/s you had a woman kicking alien ass while everyone else, every men died. If you'd have these today how would they behave about them ? These morons see woke everywhere they look today. They went into an unhinged extreme where they're just insane delusional retards. Veilguard failed because its not a very good game, not because it has purple colours. Space Marine 2 had a black main character and a transexual writer. The anti woke dumbasses just pretend these dont exist when a game succeds despite their nonsense. If you stay a couple of minutes and just think about it, the colour of the npc's or social themes they might push don't really have much to do with a game being good or bad. It always was and always will be the gameplay and design that dictates how it'll be.


It's difficult to get this message across to some people and it's not because of the terrible formatting. Laughing
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Kezmark




Posts: 494

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 12:33    Post subject:
qqq wrote:



I don't think it'll affect much tbh. This anti-woke movement just seems bigger than it is because we're exposed to it online. But in the broader sense of the world, nobody gives much of a fuck about this stupidity. Near all productions that fail, do so because of poor quality as media, be it games, or shows, whatever. Not because of a coloured man or some woman being in there. If the quality is good, nobody cares about stuff that amounts to 0.0000001% from the total experience. What we see online is a few hundred or thousand at best comentators among millions and tens of millions of clients. All this anti woke stuff was on the funny side when it was years ago, at the start, and it had the feeling of joking between ourselves, privately somehow, how they're tripping over themselves to shove this in our faces because it was the new hot trend. But these days, a large segment of these mofos have become so obsessed and so stupid, that your're emabrassed to even read them. They honestly make you empathise more with the woke fuckheads, because at the end of the day, their shtick is to just have more of everything. They want their purple coloured gay and tran folks to also be in the game, not for straight and normal people being removed. The anti woke fuckheads just see woke now in absolutely everything. Remember how Eddie Murphy was one of the biggest stars in the 80s. Xena in mid 90s. You could chose man or woman in fucking Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament. In Alien/s you had a woman kicking alien ass while everyone else, every men died. If you'd have these today how would they behave about them ? These morons see woke everywhere they look today. They went into an unhinged extreme where they're just insane delusional retards. Veilguard failed because its not a very good game, not because it has purple colours. Space Marine 2 had a black main character and a transexual writer. The anti woke dumbasses just pretend these dont exist when a game succeds despite their nonsense. If you stay a couple of minutes and just think about it, the colour of the npc's or social themes they might push don't really have much to do with a game being good or bad. It always was and always will be the gameplay and design that dictates how it'll be.


I don't know man. You're just looking at it backwards. Yes, games don't really fail because of shit like this, but the woke bullshit is a symptom of a bad game/movie/whatever.

When your advertising campaing is all about how gay a character is, or how trans, or how many poc you have and diversity... It just tells me you don't care about what's actually important in a story or game. And you know what? Most of the time I'm right that that game will be shit.

Funny how nobody cared about black characters before. Funny how in this more "progressive" world, everyone is now so bigoted.

People didn't cry about Lee being black, or playing as clementine a black girl in taletale's the walking dead.

People didn't cry about the gay romance options in old Bioware games.

People didn't even cry about race swapping characters like Fury, because the actor was great and it was clear it wasn't just done for some desire to "diversify". It was done because of competence, whilst also adding the so called diversity.

If your main objective when making a story, or making a game is to include as much diversity in as possible, then you're going to have a shit story/game. Because you don't have the right priorities.

And then the worst part is, that all this diversity is used as a shield to protect the shit product, by calling people that complain about it bigots. And yes, when you continue to use such tactics people will start having negative reactions to certain things being included, since you create a negative association with it.

Now in this game, making an established straight character bi, is just stupid and can't really be excused by "player choice". You need to consider the already established lore if you'll use the character. People don't just suddenly start being gay ok? It would be insulting and considered offensive if you would make a gay character straight. And that is the final nail in this woke-off coffin. It never works the other way around. These parasites on the industry, that push this mental illness of diversity and inclusion, would have a melt-down and do anything to cancel someone if they turned a black character in media white, or a woman to a man, or a gay/trans/whatever to a straight person.
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Nodrim




Posts: 9483
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 12:55    Post subject:
Let me ask you something. Where do you draw the line in the sand where something "normal" stops and something "woke" begins? Who defines these parameters?

And what are you on about? People cried back then a lot. For example, TToEE generated a huge outcry about some gay character on a pond in a fishing village and that was a Troika game.

The society is polarized by social media, media in general and various political entities and even a functional illiterate has access to a smart phone and internet to voice their ideas. Thus people are more vocal now because more idiots have access to the internet and spend more time writing about things than they spend thinking about what they mean. Putting all the blame on woke is running from the responsibility of our actions.


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Kezmark




Posts: 494

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 13:13    Post subject:
I think I made it fairly obvious. If your marketing is all about diversity and inclusion and all that bs, then you're out of me.

If you change established characters, at this point you're out. You're not getting passes like Nick Fury anymore, cause I don't trust modern writers.

If a majority of your characters are some shade of LGBTQ++++ whatever, then you're out, unless your game is specifically about LGBTQ++ whatever as a main focal point. If you're a medieval game and you're full of that then fuck off. If you're a medieval european game and you're full of "diverse" people, then you're out, same as you would be if it was an african based game full of diverse people, or some chinese game full of diverse people or whatever. If you're a game based in LA for example, be as diverse as you want. I'm not likely to play it, but I won't complain.

You want to have a gay main character in a medieval game? Sure, you can make something interesting with that, but don't change an established character, for some shit optional quest. This just proves to me you don't give a shit and are just pandering.

Same with movies and shows. If you cover it respectfully and it fits without changing the established lore then I wouldn't normally be likely to mind. And just write a fucking character... like, these are mentally ill twitter people, who think you're defined by, and need to announce your sexuality. If the only relevant thing about your character is his sexuality or skin color then it ain't a fucking character but a token. Also, if your diverse character can't be wrong or evil, because you're afraid about negative representation, then you are now once again hamstringing your story for activist reasons.
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Nodrim




Posts: 9483
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 13:18    Post subject:
Kezmark wrote:
I think I made it fairly obvious. If your marketing is all about diversity and inclusion and all that bs, then you're out of me.


Is this the only definition for something being woke? Then why is KCD2 judged as being woke now, they didn't even say anything about this. Why are other games judged as being woke despite not having this kind of marketing?

You could argue that Henry is not an established character, he's what you made it to be as a player. Is this not true? (I do get your point. Just playing a bit of devil's advocate for this matter. The choice does seem a bit shoehorned, but we lack the full picture.)
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Kezmark




Posts: 494

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 13:30    Post subject:
No, its the whole wall of text, but the first phrase is the main alarm usually.

And I don't know how woke KCD2 is. But the Henry thing is major red flag. And honestly, it kind of doesn't matter to me if it ain't woke. If it turns out, that he's bi, but is played out as a bad thing and is preachy the other way, it is just as bad. At no point in the first game did he show any sort of interest in men, but showed interest in women, and this is outside of whatever player choice. You can chose to sleep with women, but not men. I don't think anyone would have considered him anything but straight and I don't see why change it.

Like I said. You could have just as well have a new protagonist, that is either customizable or not, but could be bi or gay, and I wouldn't care much. There probably would be people that would make a fuss about it, but not me.

This type of shit just breaks immersion and I just can't play your game anymore. The moment you ruin my immersion I don't care about the world, and especially in a RPG this is a death knell.
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vurt




Posts: 13641
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 13:37    Post subject:
sunseeker wrote:

Where original wokesters saw systemic injustice, racism, sexism, now the anti-woke see wokism in everything. Woman protagonist ? Woke! Black person in cast? DEI.


It's not like Disney or UBI-soft other big AAA companies would claim they're not woke or aren't embracing DEI and leftist or marxist ideas. So no, it's not the same, for the most part.

There obviously are times when its a bit... overplayed and people are dramatic about nothing, and maybe this might be such a case, which i would say is more rare. The norm is actually acting out against games which indeed are woke and uses DEI and has terrible writing. Games (AAA, and AA almost exclusively though) are in a bad state and it's good people are acting out, even overacting might be good, to normalize things over time.

Sure not everyone is "online", but yeah, it's a BIG fucking part of the audience, it's not like it's 5% or something.
If you believe Bioware, youtube alone killed their game Wink so in their mind, the biggest part of the audience is actually online, AND they're listening to the anti-woke channels. They're full of shit, but sure, many people did probably did see the negative backlash it got online, it mattered.
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sunseeker




Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 15:09    Post subject:
vurt wrote:


It's not like Disney or UBI-soft other big AAA companies would claim they're not woke or aren't embracing DEI and leftist or marxist ideas. So no, it's not the same, for the most part.

There obviously are times when its a bit... overplayed and people are dramatic about nothing, and maybe this might be such a case, which i would say is more rare.


I mean, there is obvious woke and DEI bullshit being pushed institutionally, but that came after a while of activism. It took time to wind up.

I'm more focused on the overcorrection towards woke, which comes in the form of grifting youtubers that see woke in everything. If it's not a token macho generic generoman, then it's woke. I mean when even the Witcher 4 is labelled as woke and DEI because of Ciri, then what are you supposed to say to that? Or that she no longer looks like an instagram thot.

It's more like it went from pointing out actual wokeism to seeking homeopatic woke stuff that is barely there and only if you work under the assumption that any amount of POC/LGBT/Social justice regardless of it's relevance to the story being told is woke.


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pho08




Posts: 2637

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 15:16    Post subject:
gay scenes announced in a video game


HUMP TOTAL MELTDOWN Laughing
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Stormwolf




Posts: 23492
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 15:22    Post subject:
sunseeker wrote:
vurt wrote:


It's not like Disney or UBI-soft other big AAA companies would claim they're not woke or aren't embracing DEI and leftist or marxist ideas. So no, it's not the same, for the most part.

There obviously are times when its a bit... overplayed and people are dramatic about nothing, and maybe this might be such a case, which i would say is more rare.


I mean, there is obvious woke and DEI bullshit being pushed institutionally, but that came after a while of activism. It took time to wind up.

I'm more focused on the overcorrection towards woke, which comes in the form of grifting youtubers that see woke in everything. If it's not a token macho generic generoman, then it's woke. I mean when even the Witcher 4 is labelled as woke and DEI because of Ciri, then what are you supposed to say to that? Or that she no longer looks like an instagram thot.

It's more like it went from pointing out actual wokeism to seeking homeopatic woke stuff that is barely there and only if you work under the assumption that any amount of POC/LGBT/Social justice regardless of it's relevance to the story being told is woke.


It's just a matter of the common joe not knowing what is and what isn't woke. Shutting off brain and getting fed all info is how it goes these modern times.

Woke isn't static thing and does evolve. Here are some: White males not featured in big games unless villains, dumb, weak, gay. Women ugly (logic is that men sexualize women and they don't want you to sexualize women so ugly is what we get), unrealistically strong both in mind and body, tribalistic black women that doesn't belong in the setting. (I don't believe black men are getting the woke treatment either, almost same as white men), purple/pink colour palette everywhere, gay, trans.

Now obviously not all games have all of this and some feature these things in not heavy handed ways, which isn't always so bad. Like Baldurs Gate 3. BG3 had it's bad moments for sure with Gale setting up a romantic stargazing evening and almost sitting on my lap, and i had rejected that cunt every time.
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mortis4321




Posts: 104

PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 15:48    Post subject:
Henry was presented as a straight character so it may seem, that adding gay choice now, is nothing less than pushing some agenda.

I can see the possibility of some well written bromance that can evolve to something more, why not. If it is optional, I don't se any problem with it. But it must be written in a way that is believable. But we will see how it is done, once the game is out. Speculations are somewhat pointless at this point.
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blackeyedboy




Posts: 9917
Location: Transylvania
PostPosted: Mon, 20th Jan 2025 20:23    Post subject:
Thank fuck for shite like this so you people can engage in some longer conversation on these (lately too) quiet forums.


You must preorder your party before venturing forth.™FOV CalculatorAre you mindful today?Women: Know Your Limits!
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headshot
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Location: UK
PostPosted: Tue, 21st Jan 2025 00:36    Post subject:


May the NFOrce be with you always.
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vurt




Posts: 13641
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue, 21st Jan 2025 06:28    Post subject:
In the first game there was a monk who was gay (and not secretive about it) so he's not exactly right there's always secrecy around it, at least not in the context of the KCD game world.


...but ok, so it's not like i thought, an additional way to die for your character, but an actual romance. i do think it's pretty lame since its never hinted at in the first game.
"why are you gay?" meme comes to mind Very Happy

I don't know why all of these YT'ers keep saying it's "not forced", lol, is there really anyone who would think it would be? Have they played RPG's? Even Vavra goes hard at that, which is very lame, we know dude, we've played these kind of games, no one expects a forced romance.
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Interinactive
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PostPosted: Tue, 21st Jan 2025 07:24    Post subject:
14 days until we get to smoke some medieval dong Dude Cool
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Stormwolf




Posts: 23492
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Tue, 21st Jan 2025 07:28    Post subject:
Better yet, smoke some medieval dong for free Dude Cool


Last edited by Stormwolf on Tue, 21st Jan 2025 08:32; edited 1 time in total
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Interinactive
VIP Member



Posts: 29405

PostPosted: Tue, 21st Jan 2025 07:32    Post subject:
I actually didn't realise, but the KCD pledge I gave in the original Kickstarter (2012) entitles me to a copy of the 2nd game Dude Cool

The sequel, by the way, that was supposed to arrive 9 months after the original KCD Laughing

Quote:
With the Duke reward tier you are going to receive: Act II (approx. 9 months after Act I)
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