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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2023 00:26 Post subject: |
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Same fucking shit I had - except that wasn't the end of it (and still isn't)
Like I said, fuck AM5. It turned me off bothering with AMD again. Performance numbers might be good when it is working, but they've ballsed this up in multiple ways. Still hoping the day will come when a miracle BIOS update fixes everything. For now, RAM is operating well below advertised speeds, it takes minutes to boot (it didn't for a brief time) and it still locks up on occasion.
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2023 01:19 Post subject: |
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yeah i started reading on reddit for a bit and i was taken a bit by surprise. i've realized i watch too much youtube, they dont tell you shit..
of course i've had issues with intel too, usually my own error though. i doubt that's the case here but who knows, im new to AMD.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2023 11:54 Post subject: |
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Sounds exactly like AM4, at least from my experience
I had a 4770k, jumped on the Ryzen bandwagon for a Ryzen 1700 and overclocked it
Then a 2700.. then a 3700x.. then a 5900x before going back to Intel
No particular reason, only what delivers the best price to perf at the time
But Ryzen on AM4 was always flakey compared to my previous experiences with CPUs
Random cutoffs on memory compatibility, infinity fabric instabilities leading to WHEA errors and stuff like audio instability just because of it, has to be mentioned I always have to mess around with stuff, get some high end memory kits, overclock stuff etc.
Since AM5 is built upon AM4 I'm sure it carried over a lot of it's idiosyncrasies
On Intel it's a very different story, not that the 12th/13th gen memory controller doesn't have some of it's own oddities
It's still much more straight forward with a much wider range of compatibility with memory kits without things randomly going tits up on you in weird ways
Still would like a 7950X3D tho.. for 500 bucks
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2023 12:10 Post subject: |
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Never had problem on any AM4 system i built, apart from 5900X CPU actually dying, i never update bios if all works tho, built AM5 system aswell and its been rock solid aswell.
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| Posted: Fri, 7th Jul 2023 13:11 Post subject: |
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Yeah i dunno I've never had a problem with Intel, AMD/ATi or Nvidia products since Win98 SE came out. I consider "meh drivers durr hurr" just retarded users that can't use a computer properly.
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jul 2023 08:41 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jul 2023 12:04 Post subject: |
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Damn a gigantic AMD fanboy and absolute clickbaiter ranting about Intel problems?
Must be real
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| Posted: Tue, 18th Jul 2023 16:45 Post subject: |
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see this shit?
this is the unicorn 1:1:1 speed ratio of AM4
I am a 5950x early adopter - had it the day it went out
no issues - I had the perceived issue of it being too hot - apparently that is by design - learnt afterwards
I went through 9 BIOS versions
only bitch is to setup ram timings after each update
but before I bought it, I researched for a week, to know what the 1:1:1 timing is, to know what RAM to get, which MB is better and so on, how to overclock it to get the 1:1:1 timings
it's not that AMD is bad, it's just that you have to research again, as before you adopted Intel
and I've had Intel since 486DX4
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 11:47 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | had to send my shit back, just can't get it to work.. motherboard says its the dram |
Talked to support now, they've tried it and it works without problems.
So they asked me for how long i tried keeping the computer on. I said maybe max 10 seconds since the red led light showed an error with the dram.
He claims you might have to wait for 40 minutes before it works and it starts up the first time, it's what he did and eventually it started (and now it starts fast).
I had no idea about this, nothing in the manual, nothing when i googled, also this was never suggested when i talked to their support via chat, it was just a "you need to send it in"  why not educate the personal about it, according to him this was common. could've saved me so much time and trouble if i knew.
Last edited by vurt on Wed, 19th Jul 2023 11:51; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 11:50 Post subject: |
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oh yeah, the first time you boot AMD AM4 it takes 2-10min to handshake with the RAM 
for me it's 1-2min
afterwards it's immediate
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 14:22 Post subject: |
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Yes, I recentrly built an Intel PC and learned about this. It is called memory training. Took about 20 minutes for a 32Gb @ 5600MT/s CL 36 kit
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 16:54 Post subject: |
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yeah, i got an email from them now describing the issue, it just said "customer didn't wait for the memory training long enough."
fucking garbage manual, could've said at least something about it.
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M4trix
Posts: 9306
Location: Croatia, Adriatic coast (I can see ixi from here)
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 17:51 Post subject: |
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..
Last edited by M4trix on Thu, 28th Mar 2024 04:46; edited 1 time in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24656
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 19:05 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | yeah, i got an email from them now describing the issue, it just said "customer didn't wait for the memory training long enough."
fucking garbage manual, could've said at least something about it. |
Now that's just bullshit from their part. Memory training should be fine after the first boot. Only high overclocking should require thorough memory training (or not even that).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51448
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 19:18 Post subject: |
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| StrEagle wrote: | oh yeah, the first time you boot AMD AM4 it takes 2-10min to handshake with the RAM
for me it's 1-2min
afterwards it's immediate |
Wait what? Is this after a bios update or after changing memory timings or...?
Also has that 1:1:1 ratio, but the only care I took regarding that was reading up that ideally I should get 3600 DDR4. Didn't really look at vendor/timing/tRFC & tRC and shiets that much. THAT was for my ryzen 5600 laptop 
But on the desktop, zero issues and counting since 2020 *knocks on wood*
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 19:49 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | StrEagle wrote: | oh yeah, the first time you boot AMD AM4 it takes 2-10min to handshake with the RAM
for me it's 1-2min
afterwards it's immediate |
Wait what? Is this after a bios update or after changing memory timings or...?
Also has that 1:1:1 ratio, but the only care I took regarding that was reading up that ideally I should get 3600 DDR4. Didn't really look at vendor/timing/tRFC & tRC and shiets that much. THAT was for my ryzen 5600 laptop
But on the desktop, zero issues and counting since 2020 *knocks on wood* |
that's nice too, but it's not the max speed the memory controller can go while maintaining 1:1 ratio
you can go 1900 and still maintaining 1:1 Mhz speed ratio
if you go above 1900+ the memory controller switches to 2:1 Mhz speed ratio, hindering your performance
for example if you run your memory at 4000Mhz, your memory controller won't run at 2000, but at 1000
that's why 1900 1:1:1 is "special"
also this kit 3800CL14 was specifically made for AM4 and the 1900 1:1:1 ratio
and the long "training" only happens the first time you boot with new ram/cpu
there is some training when you change ram timings, but it's less than 10sec for me
edit: I also noticed that you have GDM enabled (GearDownMode)
ideally you'd want to run with it disabled, but it might trigger RAM errors
so if you disable it run ram check
also disabling it will trigger your command rate to jump from 1 to 2, which is again not ideal
you should try to manually setting GDM off and Cmd2T to 1 and in the ideal case you'd get no RAM errors
| Quote: | | GDM is enabled by default for memory speeds greater than DDR4-2667 per the DDR4 spec. GDM allows the RAM to use a clock that's one half the true DRAM frequency for the purposes of latching (storing a value) on the memory's command or address buses. |
| Quote: | | Further, the address bus can be clocked using 1T or 2T clocking. With 1T, a new command can be issued on every clock cycle. 2T timing will hold the address and command bus valid for two clock cycles. This reduces the efficiency of the bus to one command per two clocks, but it doubles the amount of setup and hold time. |
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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tonizito
VIP Member
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Wed, 19th Jul 2023 19:56 Post subject: |
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Oh ok.
That pic is with 0 memory fiddling, toggled XMP on on the BIOS and that was that.
Maybe I'll give OC'ing it a shot someday but probably not
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Jul 2023 12:15 Post subject: |
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| Frant wrote: | | vurt wrote: | yeah, i got an email from them now describing the issue, it just said "customer didn't wait for the memory training long enough."
fucking garbage manual, could've said at least something about it. |
Now that's just bullshit from their part. Memory training should be fine after the first boot. Only high overclocking should require thorough memory training (or not even that). |
i never made a first boot, i turned it off after 10 seconds when i saw the red light because i had no idea you had to wait for minutes.
anyways, got the parts today, putting it together later. going to be interesting if i can keep my current Windows, otherwise its not going to be fun...
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Jul 2023 12:26 Post subject: |
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win10 can handle full amd/intel nvidia/amd swapouts, done it a dozen times
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 21st Jul 2023 00:39 Post subject: |
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quick performance test in games 7800x3D vs my old 8600K (2017) CPU (exact same settings obviously):
Shadow of the Tomb Raider: gained around 90 FPS.
Assassins Creed: Odyssey: 10 FPS higher medium FPS but overall worse than the 2017 intel (its overall score was better). Lowest FPS was like 37, so really, really disappointing.
Though i can't turn on Game Bar which is a requirement for the V-cache. Haven't figured out why i can't set it to On... so maybe i can get a bit better performance if i can figure that one out.
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| Posted: Fri, 21st Jul 2023 10:03 Post subject: |
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Wait, 7800X3D worse than 8600K with ACO?.. I mean, 6 years old CPU vs a new one from 2023 doesn't do much?
ASUS X570 TUF GAMING PLUS, 32GB DDR4@2666 ,RYZEN 5800X3D (NO OC),GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Super GAMING OC, Western Digital Blue 4TB 5400RPM + SAMSUNG 860 EVO 500+1TB GB SSDs , OEM SATA DVD 22xNoctua NH-D15 Chromax Black, BenQ XL2420T Case: Be Quiet! DARK BASE PRO 901. PSU CORSAIR RM1200 SHIFT
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14373
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| Posted: Fri, 21st Jul 2023 10:53 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | quick performance test in games 7800x3D vs my old 8600K (2017) CPU (exact same settings obviously):
Shadow of the Tomb Raider: gained around 90 FPS.
Assassins Creed: Odyssey: 10 FPS higher medium FPS but overall worse than the 2017 intel (its overall score was better). Lowest FPS was like 37, so really, really disappointing.
Though i can't turn on Game Bar which is a requirement for the V-cache. Haven't figured out why i can't set it to On... so maybe i can get a bit better performance if i can figure that one out. |
You don't need to turn on Game Bar for your CPU to use 3D V-cache with the 7800X3D.
That's only important with the 79x0X3D CPUs with two CCDS where there is one CCD with 3D cache and one without, and the system needs to allocate the processes to the CCD with 3D cache.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 21st Jul 2023 11:41 Post subject: |
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did u google if someone found a fix for it ? or tried reinstalling amd chipset drivers with administrator rights, seems weird such a big difference on cpu side
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 21st Jul 2023 12:00 Post subject: |
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Not yet. I was on the latest chipset drivers for sure, and everything else too, i use DriverEasy to make sure everything is using the latest possible drivers.
So i just installed Windows 11 (thinking its a good idea to get a kind of "reset" of everything).
It dropped the Average FPS in Odyssey from 106 to 98. edit: never mind it was because i forgot to set nvidia to performance.. FPS is the same or perhaps 1-2 FPS better now.
Last edited by vurt on Fri, 21st Jul 2023 12:48; edited 1 time in total
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vurt
Posts: 13875
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 21st Jul 2023 14:12 Post subject: |
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is your ram working at the right speed n settings btw ? bios up to date ?
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| Page 98 of 106 |
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asked on 3 places on the internet too.. guess this stuff is too new still.
would save me so much time.
