I don't think so, a lot of players do not want math, complex decisions,
You taking diablo 4? The rest I agree with, these two I have no idea what you mean. Not saying that in a mocking way, I honestly have no idea where math would be needed while playing.
I have done no math, nor anyone I play with. All you need to do is "is number for want or need red or green compared to what I have..cause green = gooder" when comparing items.
And decisions boil down to: Does the legendary/unique power make what 3-4 spam skills I choose better?
If that is too much data to process. Equip item, see if attack power/armor/life goes up or down If go down, down bad. No equip.
That's literally it for diablo 4. It even tells you what you will lose and the numbers you lose for equipping a thing.
Spoiler:
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
That's what I'm saying, D4 is ultra casual / dumbed down. Try solo POE without googling a derp guide and not use mathematics, have fun. The theory crafting, math, building is the fun in ARPG, take that away and it's clicker heros with better gfx.
OH thought you meant diablo needed it, apologies. And thought you didn't want those people coming to PoE asking for those changes...sorry.
I 100% agree on it being the clicker with GFX, my entire gameplay is 3D cookie clicker:
Cast blight, walk into mobs, stand still and hold down right click, conditionally hit ultimate if refreshed, wait until everything is dead.
That's it. I use 3 skills, and 95% of it is hold right click. If I am feeling fancy combine the stand still and hold down right click, while tapping '2'.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Just did my first legion raid... thing. What a clusterfuck
Like locusts through a freshly discovered corn field. Could barely see what was happening, rubberbanding was through the roof. It was just spam and run. Probably the most ADHD induced 'gameplay' I have ever been apart of.
That's what I'm saying, D4 is ultra casual / dumbed down. Try solo POE without googling a derp guide and not use mathematics, have fun. The theory crafting, math, building is the fun in ARPG, take that away and it's clicker heros with better gfx.
in the end mechanics are more deep than you thought but yes, its streamlined instead of cluterfuck of a tree like POE, thats why poe will never be this popular, guess they know they cant compete with diablo so they went the absurd google spreadsheet route - whats the point and how sales are scalable in that approach? i dont know, maybe we will find out in poe2.
also i really tried to like poe, managed to kill boss of 1st act and my intrest dropped in second one. game just doesnt have what it takes to make me play campaign even once to the end, not even mentioning having fun doing grind in end game.
Weird arugment tho cause only POE has those levels of theory craft and math
So the other Diablo's were no fun or no real ARPGS?
Cause D4 complexity is on level with D2 or beyond it thanks to the paragon tree and the more intricate skill and item synergies plus glyphs
The real problem is that every class seems to have that one really viable build and skills/spells. Maybe two in the case of barb for example where Whirlwind and Hammer of the ancient builds both seem to be viable.
Having reached level 100 on my barb I can say though that Diablo 4's real problem is endgame content.
After one day of endgame'ing you'll basically have seen everything. From then on you do the exact same things for hundreds of more hours.
And you'd think that's obvious from an ARPG. But I find it pretty shockingly so in D4.
There's Helltides which is just grinding zones, especially Events, that you have seen all throughout your playthrough.
Worldbosses which are cool but there are only so many unique ones and they are pretty rare to spawn to begin with (and to actually manage to attend).
And of course key grinding, which present you with the same 5-6 copy pasta dungeon themes with affiixes.
Imho it gets old quick, especially since compared to something like Diablo 2, the dungeons don't feel very unique.
They all seem to sort of blend in together into this generic mess.
Probably the games' biggest flaw. That the dungeons are probably what you are gonna spend most of your time in in endgame. But they are the most generic, copy pasta, forgettable thing in teh game.
None of the story dungeosn make a return in that grind. Those dungeons are the equivalent to those random non-story dungeons in elden ring. Once you've seen the 5-6 varities there are you've seen them all. And none of them are particually interesting to begin with.
Nothing like in D2 with the act 1 catacombs and crypts, act 2Maggot Lair, Tal Rasha's Tomb, arcane sanctuary, durance of hate, chaos sanctuary, worldstone chamber
all and more of which were infinitely more memorable than this
Which is sad because in WoW Blizzard has managed to deliver interesting dungeons and raids by the boatload for almost two decades now
Which is sad because in WoW Blizzard has managed to deliver interesting dungeons and raids by the boatload for almost two decades now
You mean the raids where you do it over and over with the same boss until you learned and memorized by repetition the predetermined choreographed 20 person dance of "Stand here, do damage, move there, arm swing, left kick, right kick. move here..shoot! repeat" then once you got that dance pattern down, hoping the drop you want is the ones you get. If not do it all over again.
They are memorable, the same way learning a dance dance revolution stage is. Because you do it so many times until you memorize the order of arrow keys and timing right.
Yes. Very very different than here doing the same dungeons over and over with the same boss, with the same attacks, and same attack pattern, hoping the drop you get is the one you want.
Both games dungeons/raid are just this really:
Spoiler:
.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Hm quick question for those who ‘know’ more about the endgame. Currently 70 on my rogue and i’m pretty bored ngl. Is there anything else at ‘endgame’ except nightmare dungeons? The variety seems lacking as well… 100+ dungeons but only 10 or so ‘visual themes’? So in other words very very few dungeons. Helltides were ok for a couple of runs, world bosses are not really content.
So anything else exclusive to 100? Or any activity i’ve missed? Or is it currently just farm few different dungeons for uninteresting items, get max lvl and paragon board to do what? Same boring dungeons just with more affixes and higher dmg?
Not feeling it tbh. Needs leaderboards. Needs more varied dungeons. Needs any kind of competitive content. Needs more variety basically. I know they said leaderboards are coming in the future and most likely other things too but what about now?
This would be like wow launching with only few dungeons and that being it. No raids, no battlegrounds. Maybe not the best comparison but currently feeling there is no point reaching max lvl or even levelling another char.
Main PC : I7 12700, MSI Ventus RTX 4090 24gb, Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED
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Last edited by russ80 on Mon, 12th Jun 2023 17:28; edited 1 time in total
Had this been the Diablo 3 thread you and Sin would be foaming from the mouth posting each more progressively retarded posts to defend it
It's early still. Come back after some content patches, i'm sure there are more complete games out there meanwhile.
Well dno but had more fun in diablo 3 at launch than this. At least you had the rmah back then, this has nothing going on unless i missed something. There is no excitement or ‘gotta get max lvl so i can do that new thing or get those new items’. Been in wt4 since lvl 58…
But yeh i know it will get better later on. Just wondering if im missing something currently because i’m really disappointed.
Even the worlds seems really bland. Graphics are great but even if diablo3 looked shit at the time it had personality, it had something in all the different zones. Here? It feels like it all could be the same zone. Whether its dry steppes / scotsglen whatever. Just snow or dunes or whatever. Nothing magical about it.
Main PC : I7 12700, MSI Ventus RTX 4090 24gb, Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED
Laptop : I5 4200H @ 3400mhz boost, GTX 850m 2gb Vram DDR3, 4gb RAM DDR3
Derpsole : Playstation 5 disc edition, Ninty Switcherino
TV+audio: LG CX 65" / Sonos ARC + SL ones + Sonos sub 3
VR Headset: Meta quest 2 airlinked
Hm quick question for those who ‘know’ more about the endgame. Currently 70 on my rogue and i’m pretty bored ngl. Is there anything else at ‘endgame’ except nightmare dungeons? The variety seems lacking as well… 100+ dungeons but only 10 or so ‘visual themes’? So in other words very very few dungeons. Helltides were ok for a couple of runs, world bosses are not really content.
So anything else exclusive to 100? Or any activity i’ve missed? Or is it currently just farm few different dungeons for uninteresting items, get max lvl and paragon board to do what? Same boring dungeons just with more affixes and higher dmg?
Not feeling it tbh. Needs leaderboards. Needs more varied dungeons. Needs any kind of competitive content. Needs more variety basically. I know they said leaderboards are coming in the future and most likely other things too but what about now?
This would be like wow launching with only few dungeons and that being it. No raids, no battlegrounds. Maybe not the best comparison but currently feeling there is no point reaching max lvl or even levelling another char.
There is one VERY IMPORTANT feature coming, that will transform the whole game:
do you all do subquests at all? sometimes there are some great ittle stories hidden in there like in proper rpg game
I do, but esc-esc past all the dialog. I do them for the rewards in the region. But I do like there is a lot of them, and no order or place you are locked to doing them, or needing to unlock an area to get them from there.
russ80 wrote:
So anything else exclusive to 100? Or any activity i’ve missed? Or is it currently just farm few different dungeons for uninteresting items, get max lvl and paragon board to do what? Same boring dungeons just with more affixes and higher dmg?
Not feeling it tbh. Needs leaderboards. Needs more varied dungeons. Needs any kind of competitive content. Needs more variety basically. I know they said leaderboards are coming in the future and most likely other things too but what about now?
Only 70 also, but I feel that's the jist of it. It's really the gist of any hack and slash: Get better gear to do bigger numbers, to fighter harder mobs, that give better gear, that does bigger numbers, to fight harder mobs..
And a leaderboard or competitive wouldn't add anything to it, for me. But I also dont play it to compare or compete against strangers. I solely play it to have fun with friends as a group. If we can get places with lots of things with healthbars, and spam the screen with "damage popups go brrrrrr" that's all I expect or need out of it. Its a time waste of 'You guys wanna waste some time seeing how little of the actual game we can see under all the numbers?" type game for us
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Mon, 12th Jun 2023 18:52; edited 1 time in total
They are building some atmosphere. And that's the main reason I play the game. They make the game feel more like an MMO with story / RPG than a HnS loot-craze abomination.
I might be too old-school MMO, if my MMO has a story line quest thing, then its wasting my time from playing, by making me slowly read a book with a lot more effort, than just going and reading a book
MMO's like neocron, asheron's call, anarchy online, city of heroes is my type of MMO: Make a character, drop in world, figure shit out and go kill shit with no real main quest.
Because ruins it for me with the "Please do this quest, you are the only one that can save us!" while just while I am there, at least 4 people also talking to them get told "Please do this quest, you are the only one that can save us!"
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
It's the tabletop player in me.
Any video games story is a railroad linear predetermined thing (even if 3-4 paths, I cannot DO what I want, I can do what it lets me that fits the paths they already picked) I am just there to have dolled out to me. If I wanted an unchangeable story or movie, Id read a book or watch a movie, and not need to do work to make the book or movie play out.
Just my mindset. Not saying its the way everyone should see it, or think about it. Just why I dont do videogame stories. If I 'play' a story I want unlimited options as I am the main character, let me make ALL my decisions. If I cannot afford that sword at the overpriced pompous weapon dealer..and I want to try to kick the shopkeeper in the nuts, grab the +3 sword and run off while hiding from town guards then bribe the one guard I know well, to convince them I left town, then handing off the sword to the rogue to go pawn that sword to the black market so I can buy the +1 armor I really wanted? let me try it. I might not make it, but I am making my story of trying to.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Mon, 12th Jun 2023 19:14; edited 2 times in total
I loved the game, played it all in MP with friends. NO idea what they story was. Skipped it everywhere I could. I personally play games for the mechanics of gameplay.
As I said before as the best example I did all of FarCry 4 (or 5?) MP, and all I know is: Some crazy guy wants to do..something, later he is crying face in the camera, then we kill him at the end..and something to do with a jesus statue.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Game was decent, definitely better than D3 was. Unfortunately the end-game is terribly simple and really repetitive. I think the game is worth the purchase though if you go into it knowing what it's going to be. The production is really amazing; graphics, sound, music, engine and combat are all great.
The items and character builds are really simple, particularly the items, each class has about three builds. If you really enjoy POE's end game, you won't enjoy D4's endgame, there is just nothing there but farm a helltide, then do some nightmare dungeons to nominally increase the same numbers on your gear if you happen to drop a piece that works for you. Item progression consists of finding a piece with 3 out the 4 stats that are ideal for you and re-rolling the fourth until it hits the right fourth stat. Selling items off the ground for gold to do the rerolls. Repeat this process again and again.
No idea what they were thinking believing this game will sustain seasons/leagues if this is their endgame. This is a play once until about level 70-80 for me and never again unless I want to try another class. It's a good game, but compared to POE, Diablo 4 is a puddle while POE is an ocean. It's just not a game for someone who likes the end game of POE.
Yes..a rush to skip past a story I am the main character of, I cannot control
As I said above, I don't play games for story, I play it for the game mechanics. Video game stories don't interest me.
I go to books if I want 'other' characters to follow the story of. And tabletop for if I want 'me' as the character where I/we make the story of our own accord.
I cannot get into stories where I am the main character, but the choices, lines, conversations, choices of what I ask and how I do something I cannot control or if I can its predetermined choices. Why be about me (or the persona I am playing), if I cannot play that persona as I want?
Maybe I WANT to help Lilith, maybe I want to tell that skull faced wolf the first time I see him "Who are you? Nah, Im good we will figure it out"...nope I got to fight her, and I got to talk to the wolf and listen to what he has to say. Maybe I wanted to attack the wolf the first time he showed up, and to hell with his "Trust me go in this portal".
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Mon, 12th Jun 2023 20:45; edited 2 times in total
I cannot get into stories where I am the main character, but the choices, lines, conversations, choices of what I ask and how I do something I cannot control or if I can its predetermined choices. Why be about me (or the persona I am playing), if I cannot play that persona as I want?
so basically every game except some tetris shit, daamn dude, have fun, good luck.
so basically every game except some tetris shit, daamn dude, have fun, good luck.
Yea that's the only games I play single player:
Cities skylines, planet coaster, prison architect, factorio, kerbal space, MS flight sim, Space Engineers, RimWorld..etc.
Trust me there is plenty of games out there that are for the people like me
You can tell my tastes by my top played games in steam. And the ones like ark, scum, GTA 5 etc are all MP hours on closed server with friends:
Spoiler:
And even the games with stories I can enjoy the mechanics of: RDR2, FarCry, this game, Ark, Sons of Forest. NMS. Love them all for the mechanics. Didn't feel I lost anything personally by not following the story in them. I have over 1000 hours in Ark (mostly MP though). All I know of it is "I got a gem on my arm, I'm around dinosaurs...got it: Survive and raise/kill dinos."
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Eh, I understand the logic, it's perfectly adequate for the vast majority of games.. but skipping RDR2's story ? That won't do, boy !
Go replay it and watch every single cutscene to the end !
I get your idea that you don't wish to follow non-interactive story lines or characters since interactivity is the reason for playing videogames to begin with, but some good stories worth hearing are told through the videogame medium.
What's your opinion on games closest to tabletop games like say, Baldur's Gate ?
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