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LeoNatan
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 02:11 Post subject: [XBOX360] Firm considers class action over Xbox Live banning |
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Quote: | Boutique law firm AbingtonIP is "investigating" what it considers the "convenient" recent Xbox Live bannings. The firm posits that the "tens of thousands" of banned Xbox Live subscribers who used modded consoles deserve recompense due to the timing of the action. The firm believes that said timing -- i.e., after Halo 3: ODST and shortly before Modern Warfare 2's releases -- was executed to net Microsoft as much money as possible out of potential Xbox Live subscribers before banning the modded devices. The class action lawsuit would attempt to obtain a refund for the prorated sums left on the banned Xbox Live subscriptions.
According to Joystiq legal columnist Mark Methenitis' analysis: "To me, this certainly sounds a lot like a cash grab directed at a company with deep pockets, but perhaps there are more facts than they are letting on." He explains that a user savvy enough to have a modded console would also know not to connect it to Live without "serious risk." Methenitis concludes, "If, in fact, Microsoft is inducing people to buy a service only to terminate them, then there's certainly a deceptive business practice concern. But this seems far more cut and dry than that." |
Source
Quote: | Additional *reported* problems resulting from the bans include, but are not necessarily limited to:
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with Xbox Live or piracy (HDD functionality for example);
* Disabling/altering Xbox functionality *NOT* associated with piracy (Netflix, game add-ons, music, and arcade games for example);
* Obtaining information from Xbox consoles without permission of the owner;
* Other problems/consequences associated with these bans have been reported here and elsewhere. |
Source
This is a good thing IMO. Banning from the Live service, whatever, but disabling and/or tampering with hardware that people already own is hideous. I hope they do file the suit, even if it is only to give MS the bad publicity.
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:28 Post subject: |
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I hope the lawsuit fails , people knew the risk when modding so crying afterwards is just pathetic.
Its simple
If you fuck with the bull, you get the horns
And trust me anyone that says I didnt knew they could fuck you hardware up is just either a dumb shit or playing dumb.
Want games and play online simple get a job and buy them.
Dont get me wrong one of my 3 boxes is flashed to and yes I download games , movies , music , apps also however the flashed box is of my 11 year old son and its not connected to internet however if it was and it was banned then well to bad I knew the risk.
Its the same as the people that sign up for army and then when they get send into war they say I didnt sign up for that right like they didnt knew bullits can hurt you.
Last edited by ShadowX on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:32; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:30 Post subject: |
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No, MS has no right disabling features on something you own. Just like me coming into a neighbor's house and taking away his TV, because I saw him acting like a jerk.
All the pseudo-moralists claiming "Buy games if you want risk-free experience" on a warez forum are the ones failing hard and the "dumb shits".
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:33 Post subject: |
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iNatan wrote: | No, MS has no right disabling features on something you own. Just like me coming into a neighbor's house and stealing his TV, because I saw him acting like a jerk.
All the pseudo-moralists claiming "Buy games if you want risk-free experience" on a warez forum are the ones failing hard and the "dumb shits". |
And those that flashed there box didnt had rights modding it , shit goes both ways u know.
Second I never claim anything I just said dont flash if u want risk free expiriance.
U want to download and play games on a modded console fine , thats you right however this is still a warez forum not a online community for online playing, and if you wanna play online and still be able to save u games then dont flash , keep it modded offline and u fine , wanna play online dont flash and buy the games.
Last edited by ShadowX on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:36; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:34 Post subject: |
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"No right?" I'm sorry, when I buy something, it's mine and I can do all I want with it. 
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:42 Post subject: |
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First of all, I don't have a 360. Second the only risk should be the Live thing, because this is the only thing MS owns. The console is owned by someone who purchased it. He didn't lease it, he didn't rent it, he purchased it. So MS coming into his house and disabling features that are not related to something they own is illegal. MS has rights only over Live and warranty.
Look at the following analogy. Car manufacturer sells several car models. Someone buys a cheaper model but modifies parts in it to make it perform better. So what, the car manufacture should be able to disable the car from turning left because the buyer voided the guarantee?
"MS rule book" Well, that's what the law rule books are for. 
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:48 Post subject: |
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iNatan wrote: | First of all, I don't have a 360. Second the only risk should be the Live thing, because this is the only thing MS owns. The console is owned by someone who purchased it. He didn't lease it, he didn't rent it, he purchased it. So MS coming into his house and disabling features that are not related to something they own is illegal. MS has rights only over Live and warranty.
Look at the following analogy. Car manufacturer sells several car models. Someone buys a cheaper model but modifies parts in it to make it perform better. So what, the car manufacture should be able to disable the car from turning left because the buyer voided the guarantee?  |
About the car is just bullshit the way you say it , however if someone modifies his car and then go whine at the manufacture cause it aint running properly anymore then dont cry , all microsoft does is disable some functions wich is there right imo , why didnt they complain in the first place when they knew this could happen to them no instead they cry when it did happend to them and then they say ow microsoft is so bad , what a bad people are they at Ms , while before they where laughing how they owned them on flashing there stuff and download there games hahaha ms is getting fucked cause we hacked there xbox hahaha ow we so cool , but when they get fuckt back its all tears and tears and unhappy people cause ms is such assholes and then they go threaten one of them by killing his wife and dog etc etc u know whats that called ??
PATHETIC
And also :
One who burns his buttocks, must sit on the blisters
or
One who burns his Xbox 360, must sit on the blisters
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 04:52 Post subject: |
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I think it's more pathetic to fall for MS bullshit and cherish their "rule book" ( ) as bible. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:07 Post subject: |
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No idea what you talking about in the last post. Loosen on the booze, and stop trolling in the other topic about bans.
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:16 Post subject: |
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iNatan wrote: | and stop trolling in the other topic about bans. |
The only reason you say that is because you dont like what im saying, let me quote you on something you said before
iNatan wrote: | Everyone is entitled to their opinion. |
People get offended when someone tells them to stop crying, comeone man they knew the risk then you throw it over a different angle and tell me to stop trolling, when you read true that 12 pages topic you see im not the only one telling them to stop crying.
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:17 Post subject: |
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I can't believe I just read this whole thread!
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:20 Post subject: |
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Again with the "not allowed" crap. Show me the law that forbids you to modify something you own. If you don't know the law or legal terms, then don't use them.
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:21 Post subject: |
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ITT: ShadowX being an idiot. They have no right to disable anything but LIVE access on our 360s.
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:45 Post subject: |
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iNatan wrote: | Again with the "not allowed" crap. Show me the law that forbids you to modify something you own. If you don't know the law or legal terms, then don't use them. |
Here you go
16. Service Operation and Equipment.
The Service may only be accessed with an original Xbox, an Xbox 360 console, a personal computer, or other device authorized by us, or by logging into your account via Xbox.com . You agree that you are using only authorized software and hardware to access the Service, that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way (e.g., through unauthorized repairs, unauthorized upgrades, or unauthorized downloads), and that we have the right to send data , applications or other content to any software or hardware that you are using to access the Service for the express purpose of detecting an unauthorized modification. Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute, or use for other purposes the Service, any game , application, or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console is strictly prohibited and may result in cancellation of your account and/or your ability to access the Service, and the pursuit of other legal remedies by Microsoft. Microsoft may take any legal action it deems appropriate against users who violate Microsoft's systems or network security ,this contract or any additional terms incorporated or referenced in this contract, and such users may also incur criminal or civil liability.
Microsoft reserves complete and sole discretion with respect to the operation of the Service. Microsoft may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; (b) retrieve information from the original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, personal computer, and any connected peripheral device used to log onto the Service as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this contract; and (c) upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service, any game or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console, or personal computer, from time to time without notice, which may involve the automatic download of related software directly to your original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, or personal computer, including software that prevents you from accessing the Service, playing pirated games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices.
Again specialy for the one calling me a idiot , the only idiot here are the people that cry while they knew the risk so pls spare me your pathetic details by calling me a idiot.
Ones more specialy for you , I feel for those that cant use there box desent anymore however they knew the risk , wanna play pirated games fine , flash you box , download u games burn them and play them , however ones going online they know what can happen to them and then you call me a idiot ?? , I guess you the idiot that thought *this wont happen to me* , hooks up his box online and gets the msg , hi idiot you banned.
Last edited by ShadowX on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:48; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:47 Post subject: |
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The lawsuit is about the 'timing' of the ban - not what was actually disabled. They do have a point about timing. Ill be interested to see what happens.
RYZEN 5 2600|RADEON 570| |ASRock X370 Killer|DDR4@2800Mhz||Corsair SPEC-05 Case|AOC G2590FX 24.5''144hz 1ms|
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:51 Post subject: |
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todd72173 wrote: | The lawsuit is about the 'timing' of the ban - not what was actually disabled. They do have a point about timing. Ill be interested to see what happens. |
its probaly the only way to might win this , cause they know they will loose this when saying hai guys we got fuckt with cause we flashed our box , however I doubt they win this but we shall see.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73194
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 05:52 Post subject: |
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Is that a quote from the EULA? Oh jeez... Please educate yourself here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EULA
This is not a legal binding document, this is a civil contract between two parties (MS and the purchaser). Cases like this (if it happens) are exactly for that, to determine whether the EULA is legal.
Yeah, won't feed the troll anymore, sorry guys.
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 06:06 Post subject: |
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This is not a legal binding document, this is a civil contract between two parties (MS and the purchaser).
Indeed then stop crying if they ban you console.
Anyway my last post about this cause you still go on claiming you right and what they do is wrong, to be honest I dont care you dont listen to what I say anyway, ones more for the ones that understand my broken english.
I feel sorry for you all that are banned however those that cry knew the risk.
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Mantis2K9
Posts: 676
Location: London,England
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 07:52 Post subject: |
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ShadowX wrote: | I hope the lawsuit fails , people knew the risk when modding so crying afterwards is just pathetic.
Its simple
If you fuck with the bull, you get the horns
And trust me anyone that says I didnt knew they could fuck you hardware up is just either a dumb shit or playing dumb.
Want games and play online simple get a job and buy them.
Don't get me wrong one of my 3 boxes is flashed to and yes I download games , movies , music , apps also however the flashed box is of my 11 year old son and its not connected to Internet however if it was and it was banned then well to bad I knew the risk.
Its the same as the people that sign up for army and then when they get send into war they say I didnt sign up for that right like they didnt knew bullits can hurt you. |
I agree with most of what your saying, but I think disabling arcade games and game add on's you paid for AND stopping the backwards compatibility working plus any media features that come with the free firmware is well, WELL out of order. In the past people JUST got banned from using Xbox live, fair play but not what they have done this time. I have been banned, but it may surprise you to realise that I DO buy games that I would usually buy.
Reading what you have posted up on the subject of the contract, looks to me like by disabling the addons and arcade games and backwards compat they have indeed overstepped the terms of their contract with the user and may well be breaking the law.
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nightlith
Posts: 744
Location: Land of Bagged Milk
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armando99
Banned
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Location: i dont tell
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 12:20 Post subject: |
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dezztroy wrote: | ITT: ShadowX being an idiot. They have no right to disable anything but LIVE access on our 360s. |
+1
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 12:29 Post subject: |
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nightlith wrote: | Wow...how is shadow not banned I get banned for trolling less than he does.
The fact is dude, banning from live: I knew the risk and I accepted it. Taking away my DLC (games that I HAVE paid for) is not cool. Your car analogy is flawed. In fact, I'm not even sure where your arguement about quoting the bible came from? Leo didn't say anything about the bible...
I own my house. I renovate (mod) a set of stairs but they don't conform to the safety code (a law). Does that give the law bringers the right to take my home away? No. Microsoft is well within their right to prevent my modded console from going online. They need to protect the online service from hackers and cheats. Destroying my save data, gamertag, and DLC is crossing the line. They're taking games I've paid for away from me. That just can't be legal...
Either way, I am done with 360's. I do hope something starts up here that I can join and get more lawsuits going. I totally endorse fighting back against MS for this... |
in the uk, if I build say an extension on my home and it doesn't have planning permission . The council can tell me to pull it down , no relevance to the subject at hand though , different lands and different laws
Also Just because he has a different opinion doesn't mean he's trolling
At first I thought MS was bang out of order but seeing the fallout and the amount of people complain, My view has suddenly changed , mon the microsoft . Get it rite up these pirate cunts
sabin1981 wrote: | but you know what Chinese whispers are like; some newbie will read your comment and suddenly run and spread it all over the internet that the new 2010 Banwave disables all your XBLA games when you're banned.
Ironic Statement #4756 from sabin |
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Saner
Posts: 6876
Location: Uk
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 13:16 Post subject: |
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Arrrrrr angry pirates!
arrrrrrr
ragnarus wrote: |
I saw things like that in here and in other "woman problems" topics so...... Am I the only one that thinks some authorities needs to be alerted about Saner and him possibly being a rapist and/or kidnapper ? |
Saner is not being serious. Unless its the subject of Santa!
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 13:29 Post subject: |
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Bottom line is that people are allowed to mod their consoles (they own) and Microsoft has the right to deny those consoles from their service (Xbox Live). Disabling functionality that has nothing to do with the service (Xbox Live), is prohibited. I'm not sure about the States, but here in Europe it's definitely not allowed to take punishment in their own hands.
(And the EULA above, is about Xbox Live, not about offline gaming.)
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deelix
PDIP Member
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Mutantius
VIP Member
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Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 13:55 Post subject: |
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As stated in this thread Microsoft have the right to ban the service but degrade the functionality is just plain wrong. Still I highly doubt the firm will be successfull due to the EULA they let you go thorugh before signing up for the service
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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Posted: Sat, 21st Nov 2009 13:55 Post subject: |
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Twice wrote: | Bottom line is that people are allowed to mod their consoles (they own) and Microsoft has the right to deny those consoles from their service (Xbox Live). Disabling functionality that has nothing to do with the service (Xbox Live), is prohibited. I'm not sure about the States, but here in Europe it's definitely not allowed to take punishment in their own hands.
(And the EULA above, is about Xbox Live, not about offline gaming.) |
They agreed that they have the right too add or remove features when you first signed into live, these people who so vehemently disagree with what they have done should not have agreed to the TOS in the first place . oh thats right they wanted to play "their backups" on live.........
hdd still works on another console
your xbox live tag will still work on another console
your dlc will still work on another console
if you have the means to use a consigner then your saves will work on another machine ( cept forza3 lol )
sabin1981 wrote: | but you know what Chinese whispers are like; some newbie will read your comment and suddenly run and spread it all over the internet that the new 2010 Banwave disables all your XBLA games when you're banned.
Ironic Statement #4756 from sabin |
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