The GPU Discussion thread!
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 00:30    Post subject:
DIdn't mean me, but my friends and sons friends. And not all of them are even close to the expendable money crowd. They are saving for a new PC, one of them for 14 months now as he makes barely above min wage.

They dont have/want consoles. They prefer PC. Being able to hop on discord, start steam join games with each other using mouse/keyboard while looking up guides or strats on chrome (or chrome on other screen so no tabbing), and randomly sharing meme's or youtube videos is far better experience for them than a console.

The prices are outrageous. But the 'we got you by the balls' isnt only the people with extra money, its also a lot of the ones that just don't want a console.
I had a Series X here someone gave me they thought was broke. Was just a small issue I googled to fix. I couldn't give it to any of the ones I mentioned above for free. None of them wanted it.
(Edit: well not totally true need to clarify, one took it. But to sell it on FB marketplace. None wanted it to have it.)


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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AmpegV4




Posts: 6248

PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 00:57    Post subject:
Breezer_ wrote:
Thank god i have lost nearly all interest to modern gaming, its all about uninteresting buggy / unoptimized early access shit.


It's this too, like i even went out of my way and played games im not interested in to see if RTX was worth it. My interest in AAA is pretty much gone and the last 2-3 generations of cards are unnecessary.

Last games i enjoyed:
Astlibra - would run on an integrated intel iris GPU
Unsighted - the same, runs on Intel Iris.
Signalis - runs on intel iris.
IXION - finally a game needing a gpu, but it probably runs great on a GTX 1080+
The Riftbreaker - same as above, probably runs great on GTX 1080+
RE Village - Yep okay this "can" push a GPU but again, you will have a good experience GTX 1080+
Pathfinder WOTR - GTX 1080+
POE - 12 year old game.
Elden Ring - Runs better on PS5, the only game in my list that warranted 2080TI+ at 1440p ultrawide.

Tell me these awesome games coming out that warrant the 3080+ for guys ?!?
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FireMaster




Posts: 13397
Location: I do not belong
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 01:11    Post subject:
I have an rx 580 8GB on the desktop and a 3060 on the laptop and I feel like this is a bit overkill given the pitiful amount of gaming I do and the clown status of modern games. Both handle pretty much everything more than fine at reasonable but good settings.
Oh noes I can't burn my house down to experience glorious unoptimized 16 times the 8K 3FPS detail. What will people online say about my e-peen Laughing
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 01:43    Post subject:
@FireMaster
I think you are forgetting not everyone plays what you play at your res. Has nothing to do with e-peen, it's about enjoying it.
To make it more understandable. Say you had a 960 3gb desktop, and 950 laptop. You wouldn't want an upgrade to swing epeen, you would want an upgrade so the things you do play, run good enough to enjoy.
What you play would be the decider that it's not enough. Not the hardware bling itself.

Trying to run MSFS in VR, and automobilista 2, full race full cars in VR at 120hz, or at high settings at 3400x1440 165hz on monitor (more frames for racing the better at high speeds less shutter sideline effect) is a struggle with the 7900xtx I have.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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FireMaster




Posts: 13397
Location: I do not belong
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 01:55    Post subject:
I tried VR and most games run good enough that I don't notice any major issues. The only game that I wanted to try was Alyx and honestly, after that there really isn't much worth investing hours into. It was worth borrowing from a friend and returning it for free.
I will try VR again in 10yrs when it's not such a taxing experience on your bank and body. (damn that thing gets heavy on your face after a while)
But being a man of limited means I cannot justify the investment in the current latest when what's available does it more than adequatly. Especially at the obviously retarded prices we have now which are not justified in anyway. These are max $700-800 for the best cards and not thousands of dollars for a single component (which is the case here $2.5/3k for a 4090).
I spent most of my life with low end GPU's that midrange feels more than enough.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 02:31    Post subject:
I'm with you, if you dont need new high end, dont get it.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9862

PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 11:59    Post subject:
DXWarlock wrote:


They dont have/want consoles. They prefer PC. Being able to hop on discord, start steam join games with each other using mouse/keyboard while looking up guides or strats on chrome (or chrome on other screen so no tabbing), and randomly sharing meme's or youtube videos is far better experience for them than a console.



discord, chrome, etcetera and a mouse n keyboard work on xbox , pretty sure some steam games will run too at this point besides the whole cloud gaming and game pass stuff

gamepass alone shits on expensive pc's in its current form

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jaapie18




Posts: 2432
Location: Holland
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 13:13    Post subject:
The msi GeForce RTX 40 SUPRIM series comes with a gpu stand. Does the support stand have to be at the end of the card? Can you place it also in the middle of the card? or almost at the end? Like 3/4 of the card?
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 15:09    Post subject:
@PickupArtist
We know all that, we just dont desire to Razz No matter how much they do the same, the experience and versatility of them are different.
We also aren't the type to play 99% of stuff that is on gamepass. Think only thing I have played on gamepass was forza 5 and I only did because I got the 3 month for $1 thing.

----
And the 4080 came...it is HUGE. Like "WTF Nvidia?!" huge. IT comes with its own standoff attaching anti sag mount. Things got to weight like 8 lbs..
This is 4080, with the 7900xtx sitting in the bottom, (which isnt small itself) this is a lian li evo case which is pretty good sized the card dwarfs it inside.
I can't imagine trying to get a 4 slot, bigger 4090 in a case..

(Ignore the cables and mess, just got it in):
 Spoiler:
 


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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pho08




Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Fri, 6th Jan 2023 16:26    Post subject:
damage control^^

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FireMaster




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PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 03:23    Post subject:
Nvidia bullshottting
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 09:16    Post subject:
DXWarlock wrote:
@PickupArtist
We know all that, we just dont desire to Razz No matter how much they do the same, the experience and versatility of them are different.
We also aren't the type to play 99% of stuff that is on gamepass. Think only thing I have played on gamepass was forza 5 and I only did because I got the 3 month for $1 thing.

----
And the 4080 came...it is HUGE. Like "WTF Nvidia?!" huge. IT comes with its own standoff attaching anti sag mount. Things got to weight like 8 lbs..
This is 4080, with the 7900xtx sitting in the bottom, (which isnt small itself) this is a lian li evo case which is pretty good sized the card dwarfs it inside.
I can't imagine trying to get a 4 slot, bigger 4090 in a case..

(Ignore the cables and mess, just got it in):
 Spoiler:
 
Wow, clever of them to go with an already bent top plate as a design Laughing


boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
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Interinactive
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Posts: 29407

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 09:50    Post subject:


What a dumpster fire this whole new GPU generation is
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AmpegV4




Posts: 6248

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 09:53    Post subject:
At this point watercooling is much better than clamping that shoe-box shit into your case. Plus you can re-use most the components for any builds for 10-20 years, rad/s, pump, reservoir etc all stay, you would only need to change the water-blocks on GPU and CPU which is an expense but less stress and better cooling than the stock thing.

lets be honest here, money is of no concern or consequence if your buying latest PC parts so may as well just go all and shell out whatever it costs to properly watercool that shit. Ofc unless you live in some bleak cold ass place like the UK the n you need real cooling..

@DX probably spent $200 in fans alone in that build, and i'd still question the airflow too many fans in too many directions + you have the shoebox blocking airflow Smile.
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escalibur




Posts: 12121

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 10:38    Post subject:
Interinactive wrote:


What a dumpster fire this whole new GPU generation is

Apart from pricing level 4090 and 4080 are damn amazing cards. I could gladly use either of them.


Ryzen 9800X3D CO ~-26/+200 | Freezer III 360 A-RGB & 3x Phanteks T30 | Strix X670E-F WiFi | MSI GeForce RTX 5090 Ventus OC | Fury Beast 64GB (2x 32GB) DDR5 5600MHz C40 @ 6000MHz C28 | 970 EVO Plus 2 TB | 38GN950-B | S.M.S.L RAW-MDA1 & HiFiMAN Arya Organic | Lancool III Snow White + 4x be quiet! Silent Wings Pro 4 140mm | RM1000x (2021) Gold | G Pro X SUPERLIGHT 2 & POWERPLAY | Win 11 Pro | Logitech MX MECHANICAL

Sometimes I publish YouTube videos: https://www.youtube.com/@RandomTechChannel
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Interinactive
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PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 10:55    Post subject:
You could say the same about anything that's overpriced, overpowered and not needed. Apart from pricing level, the Bugatti Chiron is an amazing car..

Except with a premium product like that, it's not likely going to catch fire from faulty power cables, be 2-3 times the size of a normal car or require a tank battery to function.

This whole generation is going to be a meme one day, unless they keep one-upping themselves like they've done since the 20XX series cards
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escalibur




Posts: 12121

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 11:28    Post subject:
Interinactive wrote:
You could say the same about anything that's overpriced, overpowered and not needed. Apart from pricing level, the Bugatti Chiron is an amazing car..

Except with a premium product like that, it's not likely going to catch fire from faulty power cables, be 2-3 times the size of a normal car or require a tank battery to function.

This whole generation is going to be a meme one day, unless they keep one-upping themselves like they've done since the 20XX series cards

Neither of the cards I mentioned are overpowerd for 4K gaming or even 1440p (at 200+ FPS) They are needed as any new PC hardware regardless how much we want to brag about it.

Comparing them to expensive cars etc can be a valid argument though.


Ryzen 9800X3D CO ~-26/+200 | Freezer III 360 A-RGB & 3x Phanteks T30 | Strix X670E-F WiFi | MSI GeForce RTX 5090 Ventus OC | Fury Beast 64GB (2x 32GB) DDR5 5600MHz C40 @ 6000MHz C28 | 970 EVO Plus 2 TB | 38GN950-B | S.M.S.L RAW-MDA1 & HiFiMAN Arya Organic | Lancool III Snow White + 4x be quiet! Silent Wings Pro 4 140mm | RM1000x (2021) Gold | G Pro X SUPERLIGHT 2 & POWERPLAY | Win 11 Pro | Logitech MX MECHANICAL

Sometimes I publish YouTube videos: https://www.youtube.com/@RandomTechChannel
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Stormwolf




Posts: 23505
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 11:43    Post subject:
Are they really needed though? Is it gaming getting more demanding, or developers getting sloppier with their programing, or alternatively tools getting to advanced and hard to work with? why spend time optimizing when modern graphics cards can brute force the sloppy optimization. Stuttering and terrible framedrops is no problem rite?

I know for one i hate almost every game that has DX12 in it. It's just shite almost every time. Bout time Microsoft makes a new and improved DX which is actually better than 11 and is easy enough for developers to understand. No point having hyper advanced 12 when only a few manage to do it right.
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AmpegV4




Posts: 6248

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 11:58    Post subject:
sure its called Vulkan.

Are these upgrades needed? - definitely not, in 3 pages asking why upgrade?:

- meh 200 fps at 4k!! expectation from games built ground up for 30fps console.
- meh unoptimised and not built for VR car game.

Only edge case scenarios, not 1 person has point out any future title worth having a powerrful GPU for. I guess if we're looking at AAA 2023, we got Starfield, RE4make, Stalker 2, D4, Homeworld 3, maybe a few others.. none of these are going to push hardware to limits. I guess there will be gains in Starfield because it will have poor optimization.
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escalibur




Posts: 12121

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 16:28    Post subject:
Stormwolf wrote:
Are they really needed though?

It depents who are you asking.


Ryzen 9800X3D CO ~-26/+200 | Freezer III 360 A-RGB & 3x Phanteks T30 | Strix X670E-F WiFi | MSI GeForce RTX 5090 Ventus OC | Fury Beast 64GB (2x 32GB) DDR5 5600MHz C40 @ 6000MHz C28 | 970 EVO Plus 2 TB | 38GN950-B | S.M.S.L RAW-MDA1 & HiFiMAN Arya Organic | Lancool III Snow White + 4x be quiet! Silent Wings Pro 4 140mm | RM1000x (2021) Gold | G Pro X SUPERLIGHT 2 & POWERPLAY | Win 11 Pro | Logitech MX MECHANICAL

Sometimes I publish YouTube videos: https://www.youtube.com/@RandomTechChannel
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DXWarlock
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Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 18:23    Post subject:
I fully admit I am edge case scenario for need.
But couldn't that be said for every card generation since the voodoo3? "Who needs the high end card at launch?"..the edge case people.
And it should be a bell curve of who needs what. Few people should get the lowest card, few people should get the highest, with the majority in the middle somewhere on the curve.

I agree I dont get why the majority of people are scrambling for the 7900xtx or 4090. Not everyone is playing VR at 4896 x 2448 120hz, or doing 4k or driving dual/triple 3440x1440 120+ hz. But to say "No one needs it" is again, ignoring the concept of 'everything is a bell curve'.

It's like asking "Who needs 500HP in a car?". Everyone? No. But the edge case of the majority that likes doing open track days, or hardcore car enthusiast that just want that much.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9862

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 19:20    Post subject:
ur argument comparison falls flat cause the normal guy CANT buy any budget card right now, while he always could buy a cheap ass car Sad imagine a world where the normal person could no longer afford a car and all u see on the roads are shitty feraris n porsches, lol people would burn al these fance cars in no time Very Happy

amd can use as excuse that rdna3 igpus are coming and could be as good as a 1060, but thats still a year + away

rdna2 igpus for desktops arent coming, they are doing it on purpose Sad
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AmpegV4




Posts: 6248

PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 21:14    Post subject:
It's just an odd time for PC games and hardware. Hardware far outmatches the games, back in the day there were always several GPU selling games on the horizon be it HL, Doom3, Crysis whatever..

AMD and Nvidia would usually invest in Studios to push new tech to sell cards.. that's dead. They still talk about Tombraider in benchmarks ffs.

I had a Vive for a while too so I understand the performance req's. Desktop PC VR is stagnating/dead imo. I feel Valve walked away from that based on lack of hype from HL Alyx, Facebook have the space by the balls and developers focus on the crap underpowered quest as target platform because it's the unit that sold the most. It sucks because as a platform if you develop something to correctly push the hardware to the brink it truly is the future and something be excited about.

Look at what happened to Onward, they had this awesome accurate Arma clone in VR.. but because of Quest success the dev stripped like 3/4 polycount across the board.. now it looks like shit, no immersion, plays like shit. meh.

Look at this travesty:
 Spoiler:
 


You are correct in throwing expensive hardware at games with VR tacked on benefits, it's a diminishing return though. I e project cars is never going to run flawlessly 2x 90+fps maxed, it was never intended for VR.

Imo -> Sorry to say it men, this hobby/pasttime is dying on all fronts outside SNES gfx indy games.
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DXWarlock
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Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Sat, 7th Jan 2023 22:22    Post subject:
@PickupArtist
My comparison wasn't about the pricing. I totally agree its outrageous. It was for the idea no one needs it, well maybe not need. But a use case for the cards.
Sure if you play mainstream games, you will never need high end cards...because its mainstream. I dont mean that in a hipster elitist way, I mean it as in AAA or popular games aim at the mid tier market, the biggest widest user bases for playable on med-high settings (how it becomes mainstream, lots of people can run it). Now a days a AAA game that only runs well on high end stuff, won't make money back on cost because it's aiming at 5-10% of the userbase.

@AmpegV4
And just because VR is stagnant, doesn't mean I cannot thoroughly enjoy it personally to how far it did make it.

I guess I see it as my 'need' is no more a need than anyone here. Just different targets. I dont need 3440x1440 165 fps to match my monitor, I dont need the vive pro 2 on extreme res setting to play them. But no one here needs games setting above medium, or even low to play them. post processing, shadows, HDR, etc. or any of that for a game. But you want them because it makes it more to your liking.

You can run most games on a 1050 if you lower what you expect out of the visuals enough. Anything over that is personal desire to see it more pretty/better/pleasing to you. Same here for me is all. It's not me saying I have higher standards or expectations, it's we have different ones because a difference of what we expect the machine to 'do' for us.

Like HDR, DLSS, Ray Tracing etc means literally nothing to me. I play nothing that uses DLSS or Raytracing. And maybe less than a handful that has HDR settings option (I dont even have the HDR option on, on my monitor). What I 'need' it to do for me, is no less simply a want, than anyone wanting to turn on the options I said in above paragraph. Just we have different baskets our wants are in, and in the end the same conclusions with different reasons of why we are not all just content with a 1050 4GB card.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Interinactive
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Posts: 29407

PostPosted: Sun, 8th Jan 2023 00:47    Post subject:


DXWarlock wrote:
But couldn't that be said for every card generation since the voodoo3? "Who needs the high end card at launch?"..the edge case people.


Nope

There have been many times over the past 20 - 30 years where brand new graphics cards still can't max out games at high resolutions, from Quake, to Crysis, all the way through to Cyberpunk. But if you're going to go by what people 'need', then I advise everyone to grab a Steam Deck, because it perfectly highlights what you can get away with with only a few hundred dollars.

Everything you've just said is invalidated by the fact that less than a decade ago, we didn't have these problems. You could still be an enthusiast without buying a GPU that cost as much as an entire gaming PC.

I remember when buying two top of the line GTX980s for SLI was the ultra-enthusiast thing to do. Yet both of those, at launch, at RRP, still wouldn't cost as much as just one of nVidia's new mid range cards.

They're not even doing anything special either. A 4090 is an amazing card? Of course it is, look at the fucking size of it. It'd be amazing if it were the size of a GTX1080. Apple going from Intel > their own silicon with the associated performance gains was amazing, as was keeping the price the same as the old models. In contrast, this is pathetic, and I hope it ends poorly for nVidia.
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DXWarlock
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Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Sun, 8th Jan 2023 01:03    Post subject:
I think we are having two different discussions: One about the price of them, the other the requirements to justify wanting one.
If they was $1 or a million, the desire for particular reasons or requirements to reach a level of satisfaction of it would not change. Just the cost to get that level would.

And maybe I am misremembering, but I had no issues with quake once I got a non-voodoo card of a decent tier, tnt2 or first geforce I cannot remember (or quake II and its gen of cards). And the 8800 GTX I got ran crysis pretty good unless you went full 'all the things!' in options.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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Interinactive
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Posts: 29407

PostPosted: Sun, 8th Jan 2023 02:00    Post subject:
I’m just annoyed at every aspect of it. I did want to upgrade a PC in my house for someone else, now I can’t be arsed

If this was a one off thing, cool, but I think it’s going to be like this forever now. And AMD obviously gave up trying.
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9862

PostPosted: Sun, 8th Jan 2023 16:52    Post subject:
same, just dont need it, so done witrh it all its gotten sofar i got new second hand am4 hardware lying on desk next to me and cant be bothered to build it into my case cause my current 10y old shit still good enough for what i play and ill be damned if i give those greedy companies another penny

I used to buy magazines and read all the reviews of gpus and processors nu stuff and loved the industry, now i just hate it and resent it and just explore ebay and second hand sites once in a while for kicks like pickup up an am4 motherboard for 10 eur and then laugh out loud seeying am5 mobo prices still

any friends wanting to get into gaming i now reccomend xbox series s or a igpu processor , which ten years ago i would have never thoughtoff doing


Last edited by PickupArtist on Sun, 8th Jan 2023 16:54; edited 1 time in total
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paxsali
Banned



Posts: 18352

PostPosted: Sun, 8th Jan 2023 16:54    Post subject:
⁢⁢


Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 22:59; edited 2 times in total
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Boiler




Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon, 9th Jan 2023 00:08    Post subject:
Everyone keeps saying its the youtubers driving the sales of these high end cards over the last half dozen years or so. Who are they? I have to think between Linus, Steve and Jay that should cover most of the main stream influencers?

Has Nvidia reached Apple levels of marketing, what they say in their marketing material is considered gospel by the sheep consumer?

Or did Nvidia purposely cut production of the low and mid tier cards to gaslight people into buying $1000 cards?
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