Such jank was way more acceptable 20 years ago. Studios were a fraction of their current size, frameworks weren't what they are today, hardware was far less standardized - yet, they manage to deliver weaker and lower quality products.. damn !
Of course games being buggy isn't new, if anything they tended to be waaaay more buggy before and you relied on patches you'd have to get in CD-ROMs bundled with journos.. but when you've got such a budget, set the expectations bar so high and have delivered much better before ; you can't just say "it wasn't better before" either, it's just whataboutism.
In a game which heavily relies on atmosphere (since it's pretty much the best thing about it, the decor and atmosphere), bugs which completely suspend your sense of belief are way, way more important than in say, GTA:SA.
Oblivion/Skyrim are just shameful bugfests that were made a bazillion times better by user-made mods, on their own they are very solid game, but nothing to warrant the legacy they have thanks to community-made content.
Finally, we can allow ourselves to have higher standards for all the aforementioned reasons, jank from 10-20 years ago should not be popping up in modern games, that's kinda the point and why it's so laughable.
Oh yeah, and all these games actually have depth to speak for themselves. Depth often makes you overlook such "immersion-breaking" bugs because the game provides you the capacity to do so. CP2077, on the other hand ? It's a bit too shallow to be overlooking the bugs. Either way, it's much better now, but too little too late.
R5 5600X - 3070FE - 16GB DDR4 3600 - Asus B550 TUF Gaming Plus - BeQuiet Straight Power 11 750W - Pure Base 500DX
Lol, cherry picked bug compilations is your answer ? Im not saying bugs didnt exist. Every piece of software has bugs, its the nature of things. Bug compilations are not the proof you think it is.
But i also know for a fact that falling through the floor every 30 minutes is not something that ever existed. Especially for Half Life lol. Funny bugs happen once in a while in every game, but no, games in the older days werent some pieces of broken shits. Launches like Cyberpunk hardly ever happened, doesnt matter the era
They should have just gone for linear or semi linear for this game and not attempted to do so much in one game and compete with GTA. Rockstar have been iterating on that engine since 2001 to get it in a state it is today. They tried to do too much even in the 7-9? years they spent on this..
This would have been an awesome polished linear/semi-linear game without any of the open-world crap.
The GTA engines have been quite substantially rewritten over the years; displaying it as if they have all the details ready in a toolbox is a big disservice to the attention to details in Rockstar. GTA 3->VC->SA saw major rewrites to core systems, which were thrown away basically when RAGE was developed for GTA4. It was again extensively rewritten for RDR, then again for GTA5, and again for RDR2. The amount of changes RAGE goes through from one game to another would put other companies' engines' "generation leaps" to shame. So don't just dismiss Rockstar's "iterations" like that. They have been rewriting their engine to suit the game, world and details they want to put in a specific game, unlike EA, for example, which rapes games to suit their shitty Frostbite engine.
You can say, maybe, that Rockstar has, over the years, collected talent that is capable of implementing all the details they put into their games, but from what I've read, turnover is quite large at Rockstar due to high churn. My guess is that they just expect more from their developers and artists, they have much higher standards, and just wait until the games are ready before they release them.
I've just never understood openworld.. how do you not get sick of:
Find 2000 flags/Jars/Telescopes whatever and press X
Play Pipe-dream 2672 times.
Play Lockpick game 4692 times.
Follow NPC A to B.. but do this 200 times.
Find 10 X's and Give them to Bob.. now do this 467 times.
Every NPC sob story also boring fast, this quickly becomes skip skip skip check quest log.
Fast Travel (which is essential to avoid +400 hours of walking the same areas over and over) so immersive.
They should have just gone for linear or semi linear for this game and not attempted to do so much in one game and compete with GTA.
To be fair, they were never competing with GTA. They were never making a gta game. People just asumed stuff. Their stated inspirations was stuff like the original Deus Ex, Bloodlines, System Shock. They were eyeing having options to aproach missions, augmentations, stuff like that.
Quote:
The game will be a story-driven experience set in an open world environment, which will be driven throughout by player choice.
Non-linearity is a must — that's what we're famous for.
Quote:
"I would say the Deus Ex franchise, especially the original Deus Ex," Tomaskiewicz said of his inspirations. "This one had a great impact on me as a developer and player back when I played it for the first time many years ago. And what I really liked about that game was completing the missions in many ways. It was not only based on dialogue decisions, since you also had the things that were on the map and its different points of entry that allowed you to get into buildings, as well as elements that opened different paths in history."
Although at this point, im not sure what GTA like is supposed to mean. GTA 4 and 5 have some of the most rectricting and primitive gamedesign imaginable. You're watching npc's talk and following the scripting. Make one step to the left when the game said to do it on the right and its mission failed. You couldnt park the fucking carriage in RDR2 at the destination unless it was in the glowing area. The type of gamedesign rockstar makes after san andreas is what i would teach in a class as the worst possible. You have zero agency or creative freedom because everything must be done per instructions, otherwise everything else results in mission over.
I've just never understood openworld.. how do you not get sick of:
Find 2000 flags/Jars/Telescopes whatever and press X
Play Pipe-dream 2672 times.
Play Lockpick game 4692 times.
Follow NPC A to B.. but do this 200 times.
Find 10 X's and Give them to Bob.. now do this 467 times.
Every NPC sob story also boring fast, this quickly becomes skip skip skip check quest log.
Fast Travel (which is essential to avoid +400 hours of walking the same areas over and over) so immersive.
You are describing the Ubisoft formula. Nobody likes that.
To be fair, they were never competing with GTA. They were never making a gta game. People just asumed stuff. Their stated inspirations was stuff like the original Deus Ex, Bloodlines, System Shock. They were eyeing having options to aproach missions, augmentations, stuff like that.
They mentioned all those games and their final product is a poor man's crossbreed of GTA and Borderland.
No, in fact ubi has some great systemic stuff in all their recent games. Even if the overall quality isnt very high. Every single rockstar game since gta 4 just ties your hands and legs, and you're literaly being led by the designer every step of the way. There are fail states for every imaginable scenario other than what the game instructs you to do. You cant look in the wrong dirrection if the game doesnt want you to. You cant do anything by yourself, cant experiment with anything during missions.
What AmpegV4 says about open worlds, you're describing the bad ones. The idea with these games since they exist was to have freedom, to have options. When most games were just complete this level, in a straight line, then the next and so on. The idea of playing something where you can express yourself, experiment, do things in the order you chose, how you chose. All this is a good thing, its not bad.
Problem is a lot of devs don't make the content meaningful and exciting and handmade. Playing Call of Prypiat should show anyone how mastering large, open spaces looks like. Every point of interest is distinct. Every quest hand made. Traversing the enviroment is exciting and random. You would never think to use fast travel in that game because you would always want to go out into the world and see what happens.
Nodrim wrote:
qqq wrote:
To be fair, they were never competing with GTA. They were never making a gta game. People just asumed stuff. Their stated inspirations was stuff like the original Deus Ex, Bloodlines, System Shock. They were eyeing having options to aproach missions, augmentations, stuff like that.
They mentioned all those games and their final product is a poor man's crossbreed of GTA and Borderland.
Not really gta, cause otherwise i'd be game over if you stoped the car in the wrong place. You can kinda see what they were saying in the final game, problem is its not very high quality what they ended up with, regarding Deus Ex stuff
10 hours in with new character - new playthrough, had more bugs than in 67 hours through v1.11 like being stuck in the ground after skipping NPC driving sections, doors that couldn't open, non-stopping visual glitches until you reload, text and audio skipping itself... not good.
I've just never understood openworld.. how do you not get sick of:
Find 2000 flags/Jars/Telescopes whatever and press X
Play Pipe-dream 2672 times.
Play Lockpick game 4692 times.
Follow NPC A to B.. but do this 200 times.
Find 10 X's and Give them to Bob.. now do this 467 times.
Every NPC sob story also boring fast, this quickly becomes skip skip skip check quest log.
Fast Travel (which is essential to avoid +400 hours of walking the same areas over and over) so immersive.
That's reads like ubishit's brainless open world games. The gold standard for open world is still, IMO, Morrowind.
boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
10 hours in with new character - new playthrough, had more bugs than in 67 hours through v1.11 like being stuck in the ground after skipping NPC driving sections, doors that couldn't open, non-stopping visual glitches until you reload, text and audio skipping itself... not good.
Wow, I wanted to start a new playthrough :O
tonizito wrote:
The gold standard for open world is still, IMO, Morrowind.
I remember selling my old ass 3d accelerator to a friend of mine so that he could play morrowind properly. Did I miss something NOT playing it? Is it still recommendable in 2022? (without rose tinted glasses please!)
There is some timeless value in that game, but it's still a 2002. game and some things were not good even back then (i.e. combat, esp. bows and arrows). But the atmosphere is top notch.
Also, use OpenMW port because it fixes and modernizes some things.
10 hours in with new character - new playthrough, had more bugs than in 67 hours through v1.11 like being stuck in the ground after skipping NPC driving sections, doors that couldn't open, non-stopping visual glitches until you reload, text and audio skipping itself... not good.
Wow, I wanted to start a new playthrough :O
It isn't terrible and can be played, but the additions are few and the bugs are more
Save often and you've got it.
I've just never understood openworld.. how do you not get sick of:
Find 2000 flags/Jars/Telescopes whatever and press X
Play Pipe-dream 2672 times.
Play Lockpick game 4692 times.
Follow NPC A to B.. but do this 200 times.
Find 10 X's and Give them to Bob.. now do this 467 times.
Every NPC sob story also boring fast, this quickly becomes skip skip skip check quest log.
Fast Travel (which is essential to avoid +400 hours of walking the same areas over and over) so immersive.
That's reads like ubishit's brainless open world games. The gold standard for open world is still, IMO, Morrowind.
From the top of my head:
- Fast travel fucking up some of the quest design and world "logic" (at least in skyrim they added carriages and boats on skyrim).
- Requirements dropped for faction joining and progression ("Oh hello archmage barbarian orc berserker orc gro-smash!")
- moving away more and more from the "traditional" rpg formula
On topic:
So I guess the performance loss was due to ray tracing now also doing local shadows instead of only sun shadows like it was before:
boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
"My name is V. I'm just your normal naked double amputee trying to make it in this hell of a city. It's a good thing I have my best friend Jackie. In our free time we like to float T-posing through his moms flat. It's kind of challanging to T-pose when you got no arms, as you can imagine. Beware the floating mobile phones, they move arbitrarily."
10 hours in with new character - new playthrough, had more bugs than in 67 hours through v1.11 like being stuck in the ground after skipping NPC driving sections, doors that couldn't open, non-stopping visual glitches until you reload, text and audio skipping itself... not good.
Wow, I wanted to start a new playthrough :O
tonizito wrote:
The gold standard for open world is still, IMO, Morrowind.
I remember selling my old ass 3d accelerator to a friend of mine so that he could play morrowind properly. Did I miss something NOT playing it? Is it still recommendable in 2022? (without rose tinted glasses please!)
I finished it a few years ago with the overaul mod. I believe i tried as best i could to only have graphical enhancements. It was quite awesome
I've startet playing this game, did a few missions.
Its ok but is it just me or is combat really just very annoying? I've decided to do everything in sneaking mode, since combat is just extremely unsatisfying. Maybe I should upgrade a few things for better combat. But stuff like, you have the enemy right in front of you and empty two magazines into them and they still don't die, is just so extremely dumb.
Sometimes I just wish this was a Deux Ex game.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
I've startet playing this game, did a few missions.
Its ok but is it just me or is combat really just very annoying? I've decided to do everything in sneaking mode, since combat is just extremely unsatisfying. Maybe I should upgrade a few things for better combat. But stuff like, you have the enemy right in front of you and empty two magazines into them and they still don't die, is just so extremely dumb.
Sometimes I just wish this was a Deux Ex game.
dont go sneak, you will get bored very quickly, honestly. game is too big and there are maaaany situations where sneaking is pretty pointless, just go full gun blazing with some hacker stuff here and there. anyway mechanically game is boring, at least for me
I've startet playing this game, did a few missions.
Its ok but is it just me or is combat really just very annoying? I've decided to do everything in sneaking mode, since combat is just extremely unsatisfying. Maybe I should upgrade a few things for better combat. But stuff like, you have the enemy right in front of you and empty two magazines into them and they still don't die, is just so extremely dumb.
Sometimes I just wish this was a Deux Ex game.
Combat starts with most enemies being extremely bullet spongy, then goes to the opposite extreme towards the endgame where you can practically oneshot everything (short of bosses, who get four or five shot instead).
It's a consequence of the games TW3 style itemisation where armour and weapons get massive scaling boosts based on level rather than having a flatter progression. Enemy health doesn't really keep up with the weapon damage scaling.
If CDPR have any sort of return in the future, I really hope they improve itemisation in their next game.
Cyberpunk is a shame, I've not extensively played it maybe 2-3 hours. It really sucks because most the features are almost there.. its every gameplay element is 80% complete.
You can even get away with dogshit performance stuttering every 1 second and dropping to <15fps and break sales records in 2022 (Elden ring).
If you could just scrap the openworld and any derivative GTA crap and solely focus on FPS, enemy AI, and the trademark CDPR storytelling. I just wanted a polished Deus Ex (2000) with good graphics.
Signature/Avatar nuking: none (can be changed in your profile)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
