Discussion boards, discord etc are getting truly tiresome
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 15:58    Post subject:
Radicalus wrote:
Stormwolf wrote:
Radicalus wrote:
Internet arguments cannot be won, because they never end.

You either have a lot of time to kill, and then you fatigue your opponent. Or your opponent has more time, then he fatigues you. This has always been so.


Exactly, but the visciousness has increased the last few years if you ask me.


Just have a life outside the internet, and all shall be well. Who cares how vicious random internet strangers are on a random forum. Just shut them out, when they get toxic.
Yeah, something like this is de way. The more you invest of yourself on an internet persona/account, the worst it will be when discussions get heated. Especially on anything towards the social side of the interwebs.


boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote:
i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then
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Frant
King's Bounty



Posts: 24598
Location: Your Mom
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 18:24    Post subject:
Ankh wrote:
Stormwolf wrote:
Radicalus wrote:
Internet arguments cannot be won, because they never end.

You either have a lot of time to kill, and then you fatigue your opponent. Or your opponent has more time, then he fatigues you. This has always been so.


Exactly, but the visciousness has increased the last few years if you ask me.


Full atheist? Not agnostic? Its always better to go agnostic as you dont have any burden of proof Wink


Well, technically being an atheist also makes you an agnostic. Wink

Agnosticism: "Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable."

Atheism is the lack of belief in the above but we cannot prove that we are right since the concept of god includes the impossibility to prove or disprove such an existence.

So if we're atheists we're basically a bunch of AA's. Laughing


Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 18:32    Post subject:
Ankh wrote:

Full atheist? Not agnostic? Its always better to go agnostic as you dont have any burden of proof Wink

There is no burden of proof to prove something doesn't exist.
Not saying god can't exist. Just the burden of proving it isn't on those that don't believe it.

It's like saying people that do not believe in Smurfs being a real creature, have the burden to prove Smurfs don't really exist. (They MIGHT, but it's not our job to prove they don't its someone else's to prove they do).
I'm with Frant, I'm atheist as in as far as nothings even given me a reason to merge over into skeptical agnostic territory yet. Much like I don't think the existence of real Smurfs warrants me having an open mind to the possibility of "Well you never know". Perhaps, but nothing even starts to hint at they do for me to claim I am not sure, or that we can never know.
Find me a tiny white sock in the woods, or a mushroom with a door on it. And then the plausibly of it being from a smurf at least opens the door a crack.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.


Last edited by DXWarlock on Wed, 20th Jan 2021 18:38; edited 1 time in total
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Ankh




Posts: 23266
Location: Trelleborg
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 18:38    Post subject:
DXWarlock wrote:
Ankh wrote:

Full atheist? Not agnostic? Its always better to go agnostic as you dont have any burden of proof Wink

There is no burden of proof to prove something doesn't exist.
Not saying god can't exist. Just the burden of proving it isn't on those that don't believe it.

It's like saying people that do not believe in Smurfs being a real creature, have the burden to prove Smurfs don't really exist. (They MIGHT, but it's not our job to prove they don't its someone else's to prove they do).


Well, if you say "there is no god" the theist can answer "prove it". Kind of like what the rest of us say to the theist.

Im an atheist, but id rather call myself an agnostic as i cant prove that there IS no god. I can argue with them that the god they claim is real does not exist and I can prove them wrong when they bring up claims. However, as long as i cant prove myself that there is no creator id rather just reply "I dont know." rather than say "no, there is no creator/god".
Else i end up in the same position as the theist who claim they know that there IS a god.

Edit: The burden of proof is always on the ones who claim they know.


shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 18:42    Post subject:
Thats not how this works, that not how any of this works.

I have to prove something is not there? They are the ones making claims without any proof.
I did not start claiming there wasn't a thing named god first, they started by saying there was. They started the chain of proof not us.
That's like saying I claim there is a 10 eyed creature that lives under my bed that only I can see that sings folk song in a high pitched voice while dabbing. And when you say prove it I say "No, you need to prove there is not one..that's on you".

It might actually exist, but would it be my place to show what I started saying was there exists, or your place to have to disprove it after I told you it did?

I suppose on atheist's to agnostic chart of 0 to 10. I would be 0.1. I am not closed minded to proof of one to make me change my mind. IF it's proven I will not deny the proof.
But until that time, there is zero indication after 1000's of years that one even remotely exists, despite monumental efforts over that whole time by people to do so.


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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couleur
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Posts: 14261

PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 18:49    Post subject:
An agnostic position means that whatever you do, you will never be able to say with absolute certainty whether a god exist or not. That it is simply beyond the realm of knowledge, reason and experience.


"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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Ankh




Posts: 23266
Location: Trelleborg
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 19:06    Post subject:
DXWarlock wrote:
Thats not how this works, that not how any of this works.


Actually, thats exactly how it works.
Its better to say that you havent seen evidence that there is a god rather than claim there isnt one. If you get what I mean. So the "I dont know" is always a better reply than to state that you DO know.

Ive seen nil, nada, no evidence of a god and im pretty sure that IF there is one - its not the one that any religion claims to know as they still havent shown any proof that they are right.

So even though i usually say "im an atheist" the more correct way is to say that im an agnostic (although thats usually mostly something you hear ex theist call themself once they start to doubt their beliefs).

Edit: Btw, check out Atheist Experience if you got spare time - im amazed that dillahunty manage to do it every week without losing his mind! Very Happy (but i miss the old hosts). Also, read Hitchens/Dawkins stuff. Great stuff!
Anyway, if there is a god - he is a cunt.

Sorry for going offtopic.


shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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Frant
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PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 19:43    Post subject:
That's why I think atheism includes agnosticism in it's core. An atheist lack any kind of belief in a deity/supreme being etc. but can't prove that there is no such thing. It's only semantics though. Those who call themselves agnostics may not see themselves as atheists depending on how they interpret the meaning of atheism.

Atheism is a spectrum, from the most die-hard "there is no god" hard atheism adherents to the more "I lack faith and belief in any kind of deity but I can't prove the non-existence of such a thing" weak atheism adherers that is pretty much summed up in what I've always used as an example:

"There may be a pink bunny that created the universe with it's green snot that is currently eating some giant carrots outside the universe... We can't say for sure if that's true or not since we cannot prove whether there is one or not."

And yeah, sorry for going O/T and turning a thread about how tiresome debates in a forum is into a discussion about the finer details of atheism and agnosticism. Laughing


Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Ankh




Posts: 23266
Location: Trelleborg
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 19:51    Post subject:
Frant wrote:
That's why I think atheism includes agnosticism in it's core. An atheist lack any kind of belief in a deity/supreme being etc. but can't prove that there is no such thing. It's only semantics though. Those who call themselves agnostics may not see themselves as atheists depending on how they interpret the meaning of atheism.

Atheism is a spectrum, from the most die-hard "there is no god" hard atheism adherents to the more "I lack faith and belief in any kind of deity but I can't prove the non-existence of such a thing" weak atheism adherers that is pretty much summed up in what I've always used as an example:

"There may be a pink bunny that created the universe with it's green snot that is currently eating some giant carrots outside the universe... We can't say for sure if that's true or not since we cannot prove whether there is one or not."

And yeah, sorry for going O/T and turning a thread about how tiresome debates in a forum is into a discussion about the finer details of atheism and agnosticism. Laughing


Exactly - but just like with everything else, there are soooooo many different ways to define atheism.


shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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DXWarlock
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Posts: 11422
Location: Florida, USA
PostPosted: Wed, 20th Jan 2021 20:07    Post subject:
Ankh wrote:
Its better to say that you havent seen evidence that there is a god rather than claim there isnt one. If you get what I mean. So the "I dont know" is always a better reply than to state that you DO know.

Ive seen nil, nada, no evidence of a god and im pretty sure that IF there is one - its not the one that any religion claims to know as they still havent shown any proof that they are right.

True, but again I think if it was a scale 1 to 10 of atheist to agnostic. Id be on the 0.1 location. 99% atheist with the smallest pinch of agnostic just because I am not against an idea of him being and blindly refusing to accept proof otherwise. Just no proof at all has been given. I won't deny any new evidence. But if this was a court and I had to make a ruling. Its "there has been zero evidence of such claims. The court find the ruling in favor of every claim has been purely fabricated, and not rooted in any evidence."

To me, just because someone can merely imagine something, does not mean I need to disprove it before dismissing it if they give zero evidence other than "I thought it up".
There is figurately infinite things I cannot 'not' prove. I cannot prove my neighbor is not a werewolf. I cannot prove my kids are not 3 hyper-intelligent puppies in a magical suit. I cannot prove my car doesn't have thoughts and feelings it cannot express and we have no idea how to even measure. Doesn't mean its my job to think its 'possible' unless reason to think otherwise is presented to pursue looking into it.
God to me is like those 3 above. Could it be? maaaaybe. Chances of it just because someone made it up? probably zero.

Plus I found saying agnostic gives some the wrong impression of "OHH he's like an undecided voter, I need to rehash the same tired, beat to death 10 pointless 'proofs' to him to try to convince him. As agnostic means he is 50/50 on where he stands."

Ankh wrote:
Also, read Hitchens/Dawkins stuff. Great stuff!

I love both of them to read. I have a whole row on my bookshelf of them. Hitchens is more broad range of books in my collection as he goes into a lot of subjects beyond just faith/god/evolution as Dawkins generally sticks to.

And yea thanks for pointing it out, I think we hijacked Storms Thread..sorry Storm. I wont keep dragging it on. Sad


-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf

Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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