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 Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 10:47 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | I tried it on a 2080 today, DLSS, a few settings turned down and got an average of 84FPS at 1440p
Older cards can’t be *that* far behind it |
There's something weird going on where Pascal cards seem to underperform quite significantly compared to Turing equivalents. My 1070, according to benchmarks, is noticably worse than the 1660 which is around the same ballpark in terms of performance.
I had to put it off for now. The performance is just too poor for me and running on Medium across the board with some stuff turned off gives too significant dips, especially when things get heated. I need my 60 fps. I'll keep monitoring the patch situation but for now it's a no go from me.
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 10:48 Post subject: |
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| tet666 wrote: | Well reading the cyberpunk sub for a bit has been entertaining to say the least, i really wonder why there is so much disparity between reviews and actual player experience of this game i mean what the fuck is going on? 
It definitely reinforced my intention to play this in a year or 2 that's the least amount of time they would need to fix this it's far worse then any of their other games at release. |
I think a lot of people had unrealistic expectations about this game and/or don't like the genre, they are complaining. In the end it's just a game and people expected something different
The game is good, GOTY without anything comming close and a classic for years to come.
The critique
Bugs: sure, but i've seen way worse with other (mostly rpg's) titles. The game is perfectly playable, though glitched. If that bothers you wait 3-6 months (as with any game actually)
Performance: It's a demanding game but compared with other recent titles (watch dogs 3 and valhalla) it's very good. Watch dogs on my systems was a slideshow with ray tracing and I run valhalla 50fps with 1440 p mid/high setting. RDR2 same result, no ray tracing 1440p 50 fps mid/high settings. I get the same result with this game with ray tracing, although heavily relying on dlss, but with way better visual quality on screen imho.
Bland gameplay: what the fuck did people expect from a game like this, that cdr reinvented gaming with this? It's good, period. For me it's what is expected it to be, with the open world and side questing better turning out then expected. It's less ubosoft like bullshit then I expected it to be.
Last edited by friketje on Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:57; edited 1 time in total
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:04 Post subject: |
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About the question about the genre.
It's the same genre as Borderlands, The Division, Wildlands, Avenger's etc.
So, you want to know what genre it is, go check their description.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:10 Post subject: |
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wtf, no it's not.
Those games you listed are looter shooters.
This is a proper RPG, closest to Deus Ex games in an open world format.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:20 Post subject: |
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| friketje wrote: | | tet666 wrote: | Well reading the cyberpunk sub for a bit has been entertaining to say the least, i really wonder why there is so much disparity between reviews and actual player experience of this game i mean what the fuck is going on?
It definitely reinforced my intention to play this in a year or 2 that's the least amount of time they would need to fix this it's far worse then any of their other games at release. |
I think a lot of people had unrealistic expectations about this game and/or don't like the genre, they are complaining. In the end it's just a game and people expected something different
The game is good, GOTY without anything comming close and a classic for years to come.
The critique
Bugs: sure, but i've seen way worse with other (mostly rpg's) titles. The game is perfectly playable, though glitched. If that bothers you wait 3-6 months (as with any game actually)
Performance: It's a demanding game but compared with other recent titles (watch dogs 3 and valhalla) it's very good. Watch dogs on my systems was a slideshow with ray tracing and I run valhalla 50fps with 1440 p mid/high setting. RDR2 same result, no ray tracing 1440p 50 fps mid/high settings. I get the same result with this game with ray tracing, although healy relying on dlss, but with way better visual quality on screen imho.
Bland gameplay: what the fuck did people expect from a game like this, that cdr reinvented gaming with this? It's good, period. For me it's what is expected it to be, with the open world and side questing better turning out then expected. It's less ubosoft like bullshit then I expected it to be. |
Expectations, hype and corona. A ton of people who never play RPG's went into it, thinking its GTA Cyberpunk. It will die down, the patches will come out, people who don't enjoy the genre will go play other games and people who's life is ruined because a 60 euro game (which is basically lunch for two with a few beers) didn't live up to their unrealistic expectations will have their life ruined by some other unimportant thing. Then we'll get some clarity finally. Its Witcher 3 all over again, but people have short memories. It didn't run that well, Skyrim was better because you could do something you can't do in W3, combat is the worst ever, so many bugs "how can they do this", my life is ruined etc.
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vurt
Posts: 13845
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:26 Post subject: |
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| The_Zeel wrote: | wtf, no it's not.
Those games you listed are looter shooters.
This is a proper RPG, closest to Deus Ex games in an open world format. |
they don't even market it as a RPG any longer, they call it "Cyberpunk 2077 is an open-world, action-adventure story". check steam...
So they do seem self-aware that it might upset people to call it RPG, that it should not be compared to e.g Witcher.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:39 Post subject: |
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but it is an rpg, you got stats, perks, skill-checks for different paths/dialogue, dialogue options can change outcome, weapons and equipment with stats, upgradable, loot etc.
how is it not an rpg?
it may feel like an action game due to the gameplay, but it has all the aspects of any rpg.
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vurt
Posts: 13845
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:49 Post subject: |
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| The_Zeel wrote: | but it is an rpg, you got stats, perks, skill-checks for different paths/dialogue, dialogue options can change outcome, weapons and equipment with stats, upgradable, loot etc.
how is it not an rpg?
it may feel like an action game due to the gameplay, but it has all the aspects of any rpg. |
For me RPG's is about having a living world too, from what i've read it hardly has any AI, you can use kids as shields because they can not be killed. A game like RDR2 has thousands of times more advanced AI for NPC's, they even know when you greet them and might get annoyed / unfriendly if you don't greet them (just 1 example). I don't think i will like this since i've always liked RPG's with some roots in simulation.. But yeah, to me it seems like cdpr are self-aware and dont want people to believe this is their new take on the rpg genre.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:51 Post subject: |
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The world is improved over Witcher 3, there is more interaction with it than there, so Witcher 3 is not an RPG?
Not saying RDR2-like interaction, but definitely more than Witcher 3.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 11:54 Post subject: |
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The game seems to be running considerably better after the latest patch.
But I think they reduced crowd density 
1) Lenovo Legion 7 (AMD Ryzen 7 5800H, RTX 3080 16Gb, 32Gb DDR4, SSD 1TB +2TB
2) SFFPC (streaming via Moonlight+ Sunshine)
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:04 Post subject: |
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Well, they'll have to do something and listening to people aint one of them at the moment since people are full of contradictions. They wanted to delay, people rage. They release it, people say its released as beta. Well, no shit. But i agree that them saying its more or less ready a few times did not help them.
Now the game is likely overtuned somewhat like the original crysis was once upon a time and something likely has to be sacrificed to make this acceptable for this generation. Making the game struggle on even the latest cards is a bit too much at the moment. Dunno if that speaks more of the 3 series or the game.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:07 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | The_Zeel wrote: | but it is an rpg, you got stats, perks, skill-checks for different paths/dialogue, dialogue options can change outcome, weapons and equipment with stats, upgradable, loot etc.
how is it not an rpg?
it may feel like an action game due to the gameplay, but it has all the aspects of any rpg. |
For me RPG's is about having a living world too, from what i've read it hardly has any AI, you can use kids as shields because they can not be killed. A game like RDR2 has thousands of times more advanced AI for NPC's, they even know when you greet them and might get annoyed / unfriendly if you don't greet them (just 1 example). I don't think i will like this since i've always liked RPG's with some roots in simulation.. But yeah, to me it seems like cdpr are self-aware and dont want people to believe this is their new take on the rpg genre. |
Most open world games take elements from RPG's that in the past would define a game as "a RPG" like character progression, side questing, gear and stats that define your playstyle.
In the 90's it was clear what a cRPG was (baldurs gate, fallout), now most games are RPG-ish to some extend. Cyberpunk is a little more RPG-ish then other games but for most an open world game (same goes for the Witcher 3).
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:10 Post subject: |
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Why discuss what constitutes an rpg? Its absolutely pointless. People define it differently and no discussion will ever change anyone's opinion.
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vurt
Posts: 13845
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:13 Post subject: |
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| The_Zeel wrote: | The world is improved over Witcher 3, there is more interaction with it than there, so Witcher 3 is not an RPG?
Not saying RDR2-like interaction, but definitely more than Witcher 3. |
what more interactions? NPC's in Witcher 3 does react to when you e.g kill someone, and stuff just don't magically appear behind you. Some NPC's have work they do and go to sleep etc, i don't think that's the case here. I have not played much, just the beginning, but i've read a lot about how disappointed people are in the world itself.
| Stormwolf wrote: | | Why discuss what constitutes an rpg? Its absolutely pointless. People define it differently and no discussion will ever change anyone's opinion. |
sure.. just slightly interesting that CDPR themselves has taken away the "RPG" from how they market it. Like they don't want it to be associated with their earlier and upcoming games (RPG's, we can hope).
Last edited by vurt on Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:16; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:15 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | The_Zeel wrote: | but it is an rpg, you got stats, perks, skill-checks for different paths/dialogue, dialogue options can change outcome, weapons and equipment with stats, upgradable, loot etc.
how is it not an rpg?
it may feel like an action game due to the gameplay, but it has all the aspects of any rpg. |
For me RPG's is about having a living world too, from what i've read it hardly has any AI, you can use kids as shields because they can not be killed. A game like RDR2 has thousands of times more advanced AI for NPC's, they even know when you greet them and might get annoyed / unfriendly if you don't greet them (just 1 example). I don't think i will like this since i've always liked RPG's with some roots in simulation.. But yeah, to me it seems like cdpr are self-aware and dont want people to believe this is their new take on the rpg genre. |
How is the world not livable?
Just try it and stop having your opinion influenced by random hysteria. On steam it says that 12% of players have made it to Act 2, where IMO, the game actually begins properly. Its funny that until i opened the subreddit i didn't even know there was such backlash. All my friends like it very much and so do I. The bugs are there, nothing gamebreaking and nothing major for me or my friends (thankfully), doesn't change the fact that criticism for the state they released it in is completely valid. The fact NPC's (in a city that's supposed to have 6 million people) don't have their own 24 hour cycle is just insane and wishful thinking.
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vurt
Posts: 13845
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:18 Post subject: |
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| xxax wrote: | | The fact NPC's (in a city that's supposed to have 6 million people) don't have their own 24 hour cycle is just insane and wishful thinking. |
No one has said they all need a schedule, but they do need reactions and a better AI, traffic needs AI... i will eventually give the game a shot and i might end up liking it a lot, especially so if AI is addressed to some extent.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:26 Post subject: |
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| friketje wrote: |
I think a lot of people had unrealistic expectations about this game and/or don't like the genre, they are complaining. In the end it's just a game and people expected something different
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Unrealistic expectations is an understatement. They got themselves so hyped up, that even if the game was best in class in every aspect, it wouldn't live up to the hype.
People nonironically expected to get a Deus Ex immersive sim, crossed over with GTA/RDR2 open world on steroids, combined with Borderlands looter shooter mechanics all with the RPG choices of Divinity Original Sin.
I see it being more of an RPG than the Witcher 3, which was basically a 3rd person hack and slash with upgrades and an amazing story and characters.
I don't think the world is less immersive than other games. Less interactive, maybe. It's just overblown expectations elevated to new hights.
There's literally a thread on the main subreddit where people are angry cause when they get upgrades at the ripperdoc they don't have customized animations like with the optics and subdermal grip and scream that it was a bait and switch. Which kind of shows you what the expectation is - unreachable.
At this point I woulnd't call it a yarr. I'd say it's a wait for sale if you're lukewarm on it, wait for a few patches if you're somewhat interested, buy from uncle Diego if you're hot on it right now, but not worth the full AAA price at this very moment.
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VonMisk
Posts: 9468
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:37 Post subject: |
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So played a couple of hours more and the impression is better.
Still had a couple of CTD.
But overall, when you do the first mission and the world opens up, it gets better. However I find the first district of the Night City bland as fuck. Nothing really stands out on the street level just vending machine after vending machine in daft grey walls. The first location around your apartment is teaming with crowds but further you go less and less pedestrains and cars there are.
Finally the Monster Hunt gig tinkled my pipi because I could actually do it stealthly with it being cluncky and somehow felt like it can be fun. But stealth on streets is not a viable option and guns blazing seems the way to go :/
But calling it GOTY? So far it's went from wtf to kind of ok with shinings of brilliance. There's a lot of lacking that probably never happen, there is still a lot to fix. I don't want to grumple about the same stuff again and again. But yeah it gets better.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73219
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:40 Post subject: |
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| sunseeker wrote: | | friketje wrote: |
I think a lot of people had unrealistic expectations about this game and/or don't like the genre, they are complaining. In the end it's just a game and people expected something different
|
Unrealistic expectations is an understatement. They got themselves so hyped up, that even if the game was best in class in every aspect, it wouldn't live up to the hype.
People nonironically expected to get a Deus Ex immersive sim, crossed over with GTA/RDR2 open world on steroids, combined with Borderlands looter shooter mechanics all with the RPG choices of Divinity Original Sin.
I see it being more of an RPG than the Witcher 3, which was basically a 3rd person hack and slash with upgrades and an amazing story and characters.
I don't think the world is less immersive than other games. Less interactive, maybe. It's just overblown expectations elevated to new hights.
There's literally a thread on the main subreddit where people are angry cause when they get upgrades at the ripperdoc they don't have customized animations like with the optics and subdermal grip and scream that it was a bait and switch. Which kind of shows you what the expectation is - unreachable.
At this point I woulnd't call it a yarr. I'd say it's a wait for sale if you're lukewarm on it, wait for a few patches if you're somewhat interested, buy from uncle Diego if you're hot on it right now, but not worth the full AAA price at this very moment. |
And why can't people expect what was promised by the derpelopers?
| ivan1real wrote: |  |
"Filled with life and detail" The AI doesn't even honk when you stop in the middle of the road, they all just wait patiently. Very realistic, so RPG, much goty. Even Watch Dogs has a more interesting AI system.
I don't see why people shouldn't want advances in gaming AI to be present in a game, be it RPG or action or whatever. A believable crowd AI doesn't detract (or add) from an RPG. Fanboys here just give it a pass because  . |
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:43 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | xxax wrote: | | The fact NPC's (in a city that's supposed to have 6 million people) don't have their own 24 hour cycle is just insane and wishful thinking. |
No one has said they all need a schedule, but they do need reactions and a better AI, traffic needs AI... i will eventually give the game a shot and i might end up liking it a lot, especially so if AI is addressed to some extent. |
If you loved Witcher 3, you'll love this one. It's as simple as that. It's basically an improved Witcher 3 in a Cyberpunk setting, I don't really understand what people were expecting. The strength of CPDR was never innovation, when did they do that? The strength lies in detail, detail, writing, detail, characters, and you guessed it, detail. Gameplay is good enough, like with all their games. Driving AI is meh, but these guys had trouble making a virtual horse go in a straight line. I miss Geralt, but that's an unfair comparison since I was invested in that character for years.
Expectations are the problem. There are better shooters, there are much deeper RPGs, there are much better driving games, but this game combines a bunch of shit in a massive world and adds extreme detail to everything.
As for how it runs, it runs great for what you get IMO. Everything at ultra, 4K and DLSS quality runs at stable 60fps. It's the best looking game I have ever played. I really would like to use RTX, it adds a lot more depth (hard to describe), but playing it at 45-55 fps isn't acceptable anymore to me (consider I've played sub 30 most of my gaming life).
TL;DR: you like Witcher ? You'll like this one. You tought Witcher 3 was meh? This will be meh.
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Neon
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Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:43 Post subject: |
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Cars totally honk at me, and actually run me over when I'm on foot.
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VonMisk
Posts: 9468
Location: Hatredland
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:49 Post subject: |
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Yeah they do honk. But also cars are made of cardboard boxes and have almost zero mass if you hit them with your car.
Also I can't agree that how this game run is acceptable. It's tragically optimized or the engine is bad.
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 12:57 Post subject: |
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Game glitched out when I had to "Search the Officer", but he was just stuck there circling around. Had to reload twice to get past this part. Some bugs are just unacceptable, especially in story missions like that... Act 2 right now and I have to admit it's a big disappointment so far.
https://streamable.com/th1ys1
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| Posted: Sat, 12th Dec 2020 13:01 Post subject: |
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| VonMisk wrote: | | Also I can't agree that how this game run is acceptable. It's tragically optimized or the engine is bad. |
It's the best looking open world I have seen. Are there any other examples to reference how it should run?
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) so why release the game like this? The game is pretty much unplayable on current gen consoles or mid range systems (and no 30 fps is not enough). None of their previous games where this badly optimized i mean ppl bitched they could not run ubersampling in witcher 2 but apart from that the game ran fine at release same for witcher 1 and 3.
