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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73248
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 09:33 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | Being slow in the head is nothing to celebrate with laughter  |
How else would you like me to celebrate you? |
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 10:32 Post subject: |
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Finished season 1. Really enjoyed it, one of my favorite shows this year, if not the favorite.
Wasn't expecting to like it, as I never got too into the story of the game, nor did I trust Netflix to do a good job. But after the first couple of episodes I got hooked quickly and binged the rest!
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 10:44 Post subject: |
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Are the episodes :
seperate like:
each episode: different setting, different endboss.
or connected like:
smart talk all the way and then sometimes action happens.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7580
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 12:39 Post subject: |
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Both. Think monster of the week + connected backstories.
Saw the final episode yesterday, and I'd give the first season 7/10 (coming down from initial 8, after 4 episodes).
While I understand why the writers went down this route and what they were going for, it didn't really work.
There's too much talk about destiny without actually showing it. Geralt should have crossed paths with Ciri several times by accident (sometimes not even knowing who she is), as he doesn't believe in destiny in the first place (such as Brokilon forest, but the writers made this happen after the fall of Cintra, so it couldn't happen in the show). The last episode should have been very emotional when they finally meet again, but it wasn't.
In my opinion, the first season should have focussed on Geralt and Yennefer, with Ciri being becoming important only in season 2. It would have made the story more straight forward, with fewer timejumps.
Also Yennefer not hearing Geralt's last wish (but only hearing it later, from the golden dragon) is a big change in their relationship. She's much more forgiving in the books, as she realizes Geralt does it to save her life.
They actually live together for several years, until Geralt leaves (this part is more or less mentioned, but it's implied it was only for a short period, after the djinn).
Nilfgaard suddenly being all forgiving and pro-magic/sorcerers is also strange, considering Emhyr's background, but perhaps this stance will still change in season 2, when Vilgefortz will show his true colors.
The above, plus some other annoyances (Triss being the worst, but the ballsack armor comes close), made me enjoy the show less than I wanted to. I'm on the fence about Fringilla, the actress was quite good actually.
But despite all this, I still enjoyed it, mostly thanks to the performances of the (lead) actors who all did an excellent job. I also like the actor who plays Cahir (one of my favorite characters from the books). I imagined Cahir to look more like Adam Driver, personally, but the actor did a good job.
Hopefully, there will be more budget next season, and the creators take into account some the complaints of the viewers, and at least improve the Nilfgaardian armor 
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 15:52 Post subject: |
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| VGAdeadcafe wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | VGAdeadcafe wrote: |
It is a magical race in a fantasy world, is it going to have asian, latino and aboriginal elves, too? Not a big deal but it just seems immersion-breaking, isn't it for you/others? |
As you said it's a magical race in a fantasy world, so how a non-white person (of any race) can be immersion breaking, I can't understand. |
Because it's logical to assume the elves are a single race. |
How is that in any way logical, it's fantasy ffs. Let's end the discussion.
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 15:57 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 16:03 Post subject: |
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Are we sure Drizzt isn't a normal elf, since elves are logically all white, walking around with a blackface?
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 29th Dec 2019 17:22 Post subject: |
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I even surprised this is worth a discussion, lol.
So, people in made-up fantasy land are or maybe aren't of a certain colour? Oh my, let's have a discussion about that because obviously we haven't anything else left to talk about...
Seriously...
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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wawrzul
Posts: 2336
Location: Cracow, Poland
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 08:15 Post subject: |
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| Il_Padrino wrote: | Both. Think monster of the week + connected backstories.
Saw the final episode yesterday, and I'd give the first season 7/10 (coming down from initial 8, after 4 episodes).
While I understand why the writers went down this route and what they were going for, it didn't really work.
There's too much talk about destiny without actually showing it. Geralt should have crossed paths with Ciri several times by accident (sometimes not even knowing who she is), as he doesn't believe in destiny in the first place (such as Brokilon forest, but the writers made this happen after the fall of Cintra, so it couldn't happen in the show). The last episode should have been very emotional when they finally meet again, but it wasn't.
In my opinion, the first season should have focussed on Geralt and Yennefer, with Ciri being becoming important only in season 2. It would have made the story more straight forward, with fewer timejumps.
Also Yennefer not hearing Geralt's last wish (but only hearing it later, from the golden dragon) is a big change in their relationship. She's much more forgiving in the books, as she realizes Geralt does it to save her life.
They actually live together for several years, until Geralt leaves (this part is more or less mentioned, but it's implied it was only for a short period, after the djinn).
Nilfgaard suddenly being all forgiving and pro-magic/sorcerers is also strange, considering Emhyr's background, but perhaps this stance will still change in season 2, when Vilgefortz will show his true colors.
The above, plus some other annoyances (Triss being the worst, but the ballsack armor comes close), made me enjoy the show less than I wanted to. I'm on the fence about Fringilla, the actress was quite good actually.
But despite all this, I still enjoyed it, mostly thanks to the performances of the (lead) actors who all did an excellent job. I also like the actor who plays Cahir (one of my favorite characters from the books). I imagined Cahir to look more like Adam Driver, personally, but the actor did a good job.
Hopefully, there will be more budget next season, and the creators take into account some the complaints of the viewers, and at least improve the Nilfgaardian armor |
Well put 
Cahir is also one of my favs from the books. As is Regis and Milva. Those were really good, well-written characters imo. While i like the actor playing Cahir, Driver would also fit i suppose. Instead of festering in Disney SW.
I wonder who will (would?) play Milva and Regis.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7580
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 10:46 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 11:23 Post subject: |
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 15:41 Post subject: |
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| Il_Padrino wrote: | It's hard to imagine a different face now for Regis after playing The Witcher 3
| Sin317 wrote: | Oh, it is hurting my few brain cells I've left 
"Imaginary character from made-up land can't be this or that skin colour!" |
This is argument is so tiresome. Just because it's fantasy, doesn't mean it should be devoid of any internal logic or consistencies. Witcher is rooted in slavic/eastern European mythologies, so it only makes sense that most cast would be white.
(there are still black people in the books, just not as much as depicted on the show)
You could also argue that it's Netflix who is actually racist, as they only made the forest people (dryads  ) and other minorities black  |
It's not rooted in anything. I don't recall any of these stories as a youth growing up in communist Poland. It was written by a slav. That's all the connection there is, seriously. The diversity here doesn't feel forced. It feels natural. Complaining here is stupid. It shows racism. They aren't forcing diversity down your throat. It makes sense. It's legitimate. It's logical. Finding it illogical cause it was written by a pole, and no blacks in polish history is lol. It's not a factual, historical story. It's fiction. It built a world. A fairy tale world.
It made secondary characters other races. Oh dear, oh lord, oh God, WItcher lore is ruined. I bet you WItcher wasn't British. But you're ok with that. I bet you ciri wasn't a British girl. But you're ok with that. I bet yennefer wasn't a bri.... I bet you WItcher books weren't set in Britain! But you're ok with that.
Fuck off.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 16:18 Post subject: |
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Now you're mixing reality with fantasy. Are there elves in Africa? Are there africans wherever elves come from? Totally pointless since one subject is real while the other one is imaginary. In fantasy you can have green african fairies that sprinkle cocaine in your ass. But as someone so prominently conservative like yourself will have issues when your preconceived notions doesn't correlate with what's going on.
You do have a point though (even though you can't seem to deal with it in any other way than the obstinate racial conservative way). If a character we've gotten used to and have vivid images of in hour heads from the descriptions and exposition that are firmly rooted with defined physical traits, gender, biology, personality etc. and it's adapted to a different medium and the character is transformed into something so different that there's nothing left, it's a jarring experience. For me it would have to be fairly major changes (Gandalf is turned into Gandolfina the Purple, a scantily clad 22-year old sorceress who's into dead orcs).
You bringing things like this up and then failing miserably when it comes to clear yourself from what you perceive are some kind of attack is just... Oh well.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
Last edited by Frant on Mon, 30th Dec 2019 16:27; edited 1 time in total
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WaldoJ
VIP Member
Posts: 32678
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 16:21 Post subject: |
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Yes blackwashing was a serious concern when they wanted to cast a bame for ciri.
That's it.
Other bs don't matter.
And yes Netflix does backwash cause most people who work for and at Netflix recently graduated from social studies college. That's it. When it's forced and shoved down your throat is when it's a problem. No problem here in WItcher. You're looking for a problem, you find a problem.
| Sin317 wrote: | | I win, you lose. Or Go fuck yourself. |
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 17:49 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: | It's hard to imagine a different face now for Regis after playing The Witcher 3
| Sin317 wrote: | Oh, it is hurting my few brain cells I've left
"Imaginary character from made-up land can't be this or that skin colour!" |
This is argument is so tiresome. Just because it's fantasy, doesn't mean it should be devoid of any internal logic or consistencies. Witcher is rooted in slavic/eastern European mythologies, so it only makes sense that most cast would be white.
(there are still black people in the books, just not as much as depicted on the show)
You could also argue that it's Netflix who is actually racist, as they only made the forest people (dryads ) and other minorities black |
It's not rooted in anything. I don't recall any of these stories as a youth growing up in communist Poland. It was written by a slav. That's all the connection there is, seriously. The diversity here doesn't feel forced. It feels natural. Complaining here is stupid. It shows racism. They aren't forcing diversity down your throat. It makes sense. It's legitimate. It's logical. Finding it illogical cause it was written by a pole, and no blacks in polish history is lol. It's not a factual, historical story. It's fiction. It built a world. A fairy tale world.
It made secondary characters other races. Oh dear, oh lord, oh God, WItcher lore is ruined. I bet you WItcher wasn't British. But you're ok with that. I bet you ciri wasn't a British girl. But you're ok with that. I bet yennefer wasn't a bri.... I bet you WItcher books weren't set in Britain! But you're ok with that.
Fuck off. |
But why does everything need to resemble modern America regardless of setting? How does a franchise get better for it? If you want to create new franchises like that, that's all fine and dandy, but how does LOTR become better if Frodo is middle-eastern, Bilbo is black, Sauron is an albino and Aragorn is Chinese? If the answer is that it doesn't, why exactly do they need to be changed?
"Just because" isn't a good reason. Neither is "it's fantasy/fiction, so nothing matters".
I couldn't care less as long as the best actor/actress gets the job, but it clearly isn't the case with this thing. Triss certainly isn't there for her looks or acting ability.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 21:01 Post subject: |
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| djaoni wrote: | | WaldoJ wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: | It's hard to imagine a different face now for Regis after playing The Witcher 3
This is argument is so tiresome. Just because it's fantasy, doesn't mean it should be devoid of any internal logic or consistencies. Witcher is rooted in slavic/eastern European mythologies, so it only makes sense that most cast would be white.
(there are still black people in the books, just not as much as depicted on the show)
You could also argue that it's Netflix who is actually racist, as they only made the forest people (dryads ) and other minorities black |
It's not rooted in anything. I don't recall any of these stories as a youth growing up in communist Poland. It was written by a slav. That's all the connection there is, seriously. The diversity here doesn't feel forced. It feels natural. Complaining here is stupid. It shows racism. They aren't forcing diversity down your throat. It makes sense. It's legitimate. It's logical. Finding it illogical cause it was written by a pole, and no blacks in polish history is lol. It's not a factual, historical story. It's fiction. It built a world. A fairy tale world.
It made secondary characters other races. Oh dear, oh lord, oh God, WItcher lore is ruined. I bet you WItcher wasn't British. But you're ok with that. I bet you ciri wasn't a British girl. But you're ok with that. I bet yennefer wasn't a bri.... I bet you WItcher books weren't set in Britain! But you're ok with that.
Fuck off. |
But why does everything need to resemble modern America regardless of setting? How does a franchise get better for it? If you want to create new franchises like that, that's all fine and dandy, but how does LOTR become better if Frodo is middle-eastern, Bilbo is black, Sauron is an albino and Aragorn is Chinese? If the answer is that it doesn't, why exactly do they need to be changed?
"Just because" isn't a good reason. Neither is "it's fantasy/fiction, so nothing matters".
I couldn't care less as long as the best actor/actress gets the job, but it clearly isn't the case with this thing. Triss certainly isn't there for her looks or acting ability. |
Your point works both ways.
This is a Netflix production which is mainly aimed at an American audience, therefore reflecting current American population and ideals. The fact that Netflix is keen on having "diverse" casts is not new..
If it had been a Polish production, then you would most likely keep an overwhelmingly white cast. It would perhaps be low budget and rather shit, but hey.. one already exists I believe.
It's insane how much we still care about skill colour when it shouldn't even be a variable whatsoever. I sometimes fall for it as well, perhaps it's some kind of very fundamentally human discrimination to be routinely making all the time.
One day we might evolve past that shit.
Such arguments only hold some form of significance if the base material states a character's appearance, one fans will grow to define as the character's canon. Since Tolkien bothered defining every facet of his universe, any change to it will immediately stand out.
Another idea is to say that since a work was written by this or that author living in this location or that period of time, his fictional work is automatically set in a comparable background. This subject has some legitimacy, of course. It falls flat considering how we keep re-interpreting works of art indefinitely - which should be one of arts purposes, imo.
You can see anyone bothered by skin colour differences clings on to this one point for dear life.
Even then, it would be a lot less idiotic if skin colour was a factor one wouldn't even consider whatsoever. I wish that we wouldn't give a flying shit if Aragorn was portrayed by a black actor, myself included.
It's mainly a sophisticated form of intolerance to me, regardless of how legitimate, natural or ancient it might be.
I can perfectly see the other side of the argument and we could go on the other tangent, that is positive discrimination.. but that's another debate.
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 22:34 Post subject: |
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[quote="WaldoJ"][quote="Il_Padrino"]It's hard to imagine a different face now for Regis after playing The Witcher 3 :D
[quote="Sin317"]Oh, it is hurting my few brain cells I've left :)
"Imaginary character from made-up land can't be this or that skin colour!"[/quote]
This is argument is so tiresome. Just because it's fantasy, doesn't mean it should be devoid of any internal logic or consistencies. Witcher is rooted in slavic/eastern European mythologies, so it only makes sense that most cast would be white.
(there are still black people in the books, just not as much as depicted on the show)
You could also argue that it's Netflix who is actually racist, as they only made the forest people (dryads :P ) and other minorities black ;)[/quote]
It's not rooted in anything. I don't recall any of these stories as a youth growing up in communist Poland. It was written by a slav. That's all the connection there is, seriously. The diversity here doesn't feel forced. It feels natural. Complaining here is stupid. It shows racism. They aren't forcing diversity down your throat. It makes sense. It's legitimate. It's logical. Finding it illogical cause it was written by a pole, and no blacks in polish history is lol. It's not a factual, historical story. It's fiction. It built a world. A fairy tale world.
It made secondary characters other races. Oh dear, oh lord, oh God, WItcher lore is ruined. I bet you WItcher wasn't British. But you're ok with that. I bet you ciri wasn't a British girl. But you're ok with that. I bet yennefer wasn't a bri.... I bet you WItcher books weren't set in Britain! But you're ok with that.
Fuck off.[/quote]
+1
It's so ridiculous when people try to disguise their racist opinions as simply caring about the source material, but they will gladly look the other away when it suits them. :roll:
EDIT:
I dunno why my quotes don't work, it all started the moment ixi gave me this lovely avatar, perhaps this is just a natural side effect of it's derpness aura :lol:
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 22:43 Post subject: |
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| WaldoJ wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: | It's hard to imagine a different face now for Regis after playing The Witcher 3
| Sin317 wrote: | Oh, it is hurting my few brain cells I've left
"Imaginary character from made-up land can't be this or that skin colour!" |
This is argument is so tiresome. Just because it's fantasy, doesn't mean it should be devoid of any internal logic or consistencies. Witcher is rooted in slavic/eastern European mythologies, so it only makes sense that most cast would be white.
(there are still black people in the books, just not as much as depicted on the show)
You could also argue that it's Netflix who is actually racist, as they only made the forest people (dryads ) and other minorities black |
It's not rooted in anything. I don't recall any of these stories as a youth growing up in communist Poland. It was written by a slav. That's all the connection there is, seriously. The diversity here doesn't feel forced. It feels natural. Complaining here is stupid. It shows racism. They aren't forcing diversity down your throat. It makes sense. It's legitimate. It's logical. Finding it illogical cause it was written by a pole, and no blacks in polish history is lol. It's not a factual, historical story. It's fiction. It built a world. A fairy tale world.
It made secondary characters other races. Oh dear, oh lord, oh God, WItcher lore is ruined. I bet you WItcher wasn't British. But you're ok with that. I bet you ciri wasn't a British girl. But you're ok with that. I bet yennefer wasn't a bri.... I bet you WItcher books weren't set in Britain! But you're ok with that.
Fuck off. |
There
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 22:45 Post subject: |
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If a character is white in the source material then the tv character should be white too. Nothing racist about it.
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jackbomb
Posts: 2540
Location: Tortilla de patatas
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| Posted: Mon, 30th Dec 2019 23:01 Post subject: |
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Then again Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse was one of the best films about Spidey and he was black. Granted, he was foreshadowing the original Peter Parker, but... who cares? He fitted the role.
MAG B650 Tomahawk / Ryzen 9 7950X CU -20 5.5GHz / TR PS120SE / Corsair 2x16GB DDR5 6000 CL30 / TUF 3080 OC / Cubase Pro 14
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14369
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Dec 2019 00:22 Post subject: |
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Just watched episode 5, awesome! That song at the end credits! Nice touch,
I like that its has lesser scope than GoT so they can focus on these small stories, but its still cool and there are so many things happening here, that are referenced in the games that make it interesting. I should read the books, I know. But I enjoy this show.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24655
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Tue, 31st Dec 2019 07:02 Post subject: |
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| TheZor wrote: | | djaoni wrote: | | WaldoJ wrote: |
It's not rooted in anything. I don't recall any of these stories as a youth growing up in communist Poland. It was written by a slav. That's all the connection there is, seriously. The diversity here doesn't feel forced. It feels natural. Complaining here is stupid. It shows racism. They aren't forcing diversity down your throat. It makes sense. It's legitimate. It's logical. Finding it illogical cause it was written by a pole, and no blacks in polish history is lol. It's not a factual, historical story. It's fiction. It built a world. A fairy tale world.
It made secondary characters other races. Oh dear, oh lord, oh God, WItcher lore is ruined. I bet you WItcher wasn't British. But you're ok with that. I bet you ciri wasn't a British girl. But you're ok with that. I bet yennefer wasn't a bri.... I bet you WItcher books weren't set in Britain! But you're ok with that.
Fuck off. |
But why does everything need to resemble modern America regardless of setting? How does a franchise get better for it? If you want to create new franchises like that, that's all fine and dandy, but how does LOTR become better if Frodo is middle-eastern, Bilbo is black, Sauron is an albino and Aragorn is Chinese? If the answer is that it doesn't, why exactly do they need to be changed?
"Just because" isn't a good reason. Neither is "it's fantasy/fiction, so nothing matters".
I couldn't care less as long as the best actor/actress gets the job, but it clearly isn't the case with this thing. Triss certainly isn't there for her looks or acting ability. |
Your point works both ways.
This is a Netflix production which is mainly aimed at an American audience, therefore reflecting current American population and ideals. The fact that Netflix is keen on having "diverse" casts is not new..
If it had been a Polish production, then you would most likely keep an overwhelmingly white cast. It would perhaps be low budget and rather shit, but hey.. one already exists I believe.
It's insane how much we still care about skill colour when it shouldn't even be a variable whatsoever. I sometimes fall for it as well, perhaps it's some kind of very fundamentally human discrimination to be routinely making all the time.
One day we might evolve past that shit.
Such arguments only hold some form of significance if the base material states a character's appearance, one fans will grow to define as the character's canon. Since Tolkien bothered defining every facet of his universe, any change to it will immediately stand out.
Another idea is to say that since a work was written by this or that author living in this location or that period of time, his fictional work is automatically set in a comparable background. This subject has some legitimacy, of course. It falls flat considering how we keep re-interpreting works of art indefinitely - which should be one of arts purposes, imo.
You can see anyone bothered by skin colour differences clings on to this one point for dear life.
Even then, it would be a lot less idiotic if skin colour was a factor one wouldn't even consider whatsoever. I wish that we wouldn't give a flying shit if Aragorn was portrayed by a black actor, myself included.
It's mainly a sophisticated form of intolerance to me, regardless of how legitimate, natural or ancient it might be.
I can perfectly see the other side of the argument and we could go on the other tangent, that is positive discrimination.. but that's another debate. |
I love Idris Elba as an actor but he didn't fit the image I've had in my mind since the first Dark Tower book was released but it took ~10 minutes for my brain to adapt (and I wish we all were socially color blind so it wouldn't matter at all which is probably a process that's going on right now in the west). The cover art of that book was a white cowboy dude. However, he did a good job even with that terrible script that probably ruined a proper Dark Tower franchise (we're getting a tv-series https://www.nfohump.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107245&highlight=)
https://www.cinemablend.com/new/What-Stephen-King-Really-Thinks-About-Switching-Race-Dark-Tower-Character-99927.html
| Quote: | | Concerns over the prospect of Idris Elba playing Roland Deschain may be a mix of those with a general dislike for book characters being portrayed as different races in movie adaptations, and those who may be concerned over how closely this particular adaptation sticks to the books. In the case of Roland, not only has he been depicted as white on cover illustrations, but his race plays a part in the story, specifically when he encounters Detta Walker, the irritable and occasionally violent alter-ego of Odetta Holmes. As Detta has an extreme distaste for white people, to put it mildly, it creates some initial conflict (and serious problems) when she’s first introduced to the story. She plays a crucial role in the story, as well as the mentioned ka-tet, so that may be factoring in to some fans' apprehension over Elba's potential involvement in the film. |
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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