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 Posted: Sun, 4th Aug 2019 14:37 Post subject: |
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I keep saying, once epic money moves in, all shits given move out. Devs just see it as a financial success before any sales are made.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Aug 2019 19:33 Post subject: |
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I think it's a brilliant move by the devs to go epic exclusive. The publicity this game gets is huge, for intsance, why the fuck is this game being discussed here, a "cute" stardew valley clone, why bother.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Aug 2019 03:42 Post subject: |
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Here is truth - it wont really have any serious affect on sales. I've told that before and I will keep saying it - wallet voting DOES not work and will NEVER work unless the vocal minority, who is being loud on the internet and expressing their opinion everywhere, will become MAJORITY.
Casual consumer will STILL buy the game. He does not care about Steam or EGS, he just wants the product. This is why, despite all the shit Ubi, with their Uplay store, or EA, with their Origin, or Epic, with their own, do - they still manage to exist well. Because majority does not give a shit, most of them didnt even hear about any of this drama and they will still buy.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Aug 2019 04:15 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:12; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 05:21 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: |
How are you gauging who the minority is or what the effect on sales are like? Got some hard numbers you're working with there? |
Ok, cool, two can play this game.
Name ONE (1, single) "wallet voting" gamer rally that worked (with proof). Take last 20 years easily, no problem. But before you write it down, actually follow up on that event and try to find ANY actual impact it had (not the OPINION of the minority of how it impacted the publisher/dev but actual data)
Just one.
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 05:50 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:12; edited 3 times in total
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wawrzul
Posts: 2336
Location: Cracow, Poland
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 07:10 Post subject: |
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This shit is made by Double Fine? Those hit-and-run EA cocksuckers? And they don't respect their customers? Go figure. I'd say they belong with Epic.
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 07:42 Post subject: |
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| wawrzul wrote: | | This shit is made by Double Fine? |
nope , the dropped publishing this when they signed with MS |
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wawrzul
Posts: 2336
Location: Cracow, Poland
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 08:26 Post subject: |
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Too bad, it would be fitting.
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 18:47 Post subject: |
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I asked a simple question, are you having issues answering that?
I didnt ask for any precise or officially confirmed data, why are you moving goalposts?
Let me simplify it for you:
1. You name a game that was "wallet voted" by gaymers
2. You point out the fact game flopped really hard because of that. Since "wallet voting" was a success it would be obvious it was a disaster. No need a stamp-approve PDF scans.
No matter what game it will be the result will always be the same: https://www.destructoid.com/modern-warfare-2-boycott--141418.phtml
It didnt matter. Because the amount of normies that will buy the product and dont care about internet drama railed up by vocal minority is thousands and thousands times higher. And it was like that last 30 years and will be like that next 30 years.
Wallet voting in any big media industry (game, movies, music) is a myth in modern era. The percentage of sales it affects is so miniscule, nobody even considers it to be worth counting or mentioning.
Last edited by Civ01 on Tue, 6th Aug 2019 18:50; edited 2 times in total
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51488
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 20:46 Post subject: |
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...what a cuck
https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/1158760930282496000
| Quote: | | In the wake of the Ooblets team being dogpiled, harassed, and threatened over their Epic exclusivity, I've made my video on the topic private for now. The harassment is not fucking on and I don't want to even indirectly encourage it. |
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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Nodrim
Posts: 9677
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 21:05 Post subject: |
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Are these threats real? The only source I found is the Epic Games twitter account. Did the developers decide it's better to call Tim Sweeney instead of the police?
Later edit:
I found this https://medium.com/@perplamps/regarding-whats-been-happening-3af0f27d863c
These retarded messages clearly speak for the gamers as a whole, not...
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 22:55 Post subject: |
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^ He got it wrong from the first sentence.
They had turned into "targets" not due to being partners with Epic, but "thanks" to their massive condescending tone and uber ego oozing of Epic money and ignorance.
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Aug 2019 23:36 Post subject: |
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Who gives a shit? Threats being done by armchair neckbeards anyway. If anyone were to follow through on anything then we'd certainly have less scum in the game development area, but there arent. Meaning its empty threats and people make a fuss out of nothing.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Aug 2019 01:47 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:11; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Aug 2019 07:02 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | In a pool of what, millions? |
But that PRECISELY my point, dingbat! That's what I said multiple time but you ignored it - it is ALWAYS the vocal minority that boycotts games. ALWAYS was and WILL be. Theres never EVER was a case when actual coordinated (artificial) boycott in the game industry had the amount of people even slightly close to majority of at least a 50%. They [boycotts] never worked and never will because normie consumer always outnumbers any gamer that "risen up".
Back to the subject in the context of which the discussion has started - this whole mess with EGS and talking shit to "gaymers" wont impact Ooblets in any serious way (they lost 90 patreons and gained 40 in 5 days - wow, what an impact already to be seen) because normie dont care or does not know or even supports them. The biggest issue to Ooblets will be if the game turns out to be shit because in this case natutal wallet voting will happen - people wont just buy it. Surely, there will be people who wont buy it on principle but their amount will be ATOMICALLY INSIGNIFICANT in comparison to how many people will buy the game if it is good or how many wont buy it if iti s bad
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Aug 2019 07:06 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:11; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Aug 2019 19:21 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: |
In my example only the minority had purchased the game |
what
| Quote: | | Also, I think you missed the rest of that paragraph. |
It is irrelevant because we look at the broader picture here: action -> consequences.
A thing happens, gaymers are mad, they rally the troops, obvious and observable consequences must happen. Consequences cannot be observed in obvious way, therefore they either didnt happen or insignificantly small. In both cases - irrelevant, because final conclusion still the same - artificial wallet voting leads to zero quantifiable results.
I've yet to see game failing, as a product, specifically because it was consciously and deliberately boycotted by so-called "educated consumer". If you can name one, though - go ahead, I'm all ears. I dont need any numbers and sources straight from publishers.
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tonizito
VIP Member
Posts: 51488
Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Wed, 7th Aug 2019 21:15 Post subject: |
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euroderper doubling down on "muh harassment, we did nothing wrong, we did everything correct"
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-08-07-what-happened-to-us-is-the-result-of-people-forgetting-their-humanity-for-the-sake-of-participating-in-video-game-drama
| Quote: | | Written by Ben Wasser (also known as "Perplamps"), the statement explains the severity of the backlash was partly caused by a sudden change in audience which was unused to the team's communication style. "For the past three years, I've been interacting with an audience that has always been understanding, friendly, and appreciative of our very open and transparent style," Wasser wrote. "That's why we were totally unprepared for the attention we got from the broader gaming/internet community, which was fueled by a deep misunderstanding of the tongue-in-cheek tone as condescending and patronising." |
Fair enough, dumb bur fair enough.
| Quote: | That being said, Wasser accepts he somewhat misjudged the situation, explaining he "naively thought what we were saying might get them to see the whole EGS debate as lightheartedly as we did".
"By engaging directly with that crowd, I mistakenly thought I could have some impact on their opinions and emotions and defuse the situation with some lighthearted criticism of the main things that drove them to attack people," Wasser wrote. "You can see how well that went. It was a stupid miscalculation on my part." |
And now they know 
| Quote: | | In the immediate aftermath of the original announcement post, Wasser replied to several community questions over Discord, which he believed "unintentionally threw fuel on the fire" when these messages were screenshotted. Wasser said this led to "mischaracterisations of my messages taken out of context to insinuate I don't care about our patrons/fans", along with a "completely fabricated anti-Semitic message". |
Welcome to your first day on the internet
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 00:57 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:11; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 07:27 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | | Civ01 wrote: | | If you can name one, though - go ahead, I'm all ears. I dont need any numbers and sources straight from publishers. |
You can't possibly be this dense
The crux of your problem, once again - you can't know, neither can I. The only difference is you keep pretending to know. If I gave you an example of a game that failed presumably for this reason, how would I prove it? How would you disprove it?
| Civ01 wrote: | | It is irrelevant |
Asking for facts and figures to prove what you're saying is true is irrelevant? I know you can't provide anything. Which again... is the point. |
You keep repeating the same fallacy. "We cant possibly know". SO what now, forget and never discuss until we have FP32 double-precision numbers?
You can cry all you want that I can't discuss a thing because of X - like I give a shit. Of all the things your opinion is the least to stop me.
Come back when you would want to have an argument instead of trying to evade it.
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 07:34 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Mon, 4th Oct 2021 09:11; edited 3 times in total
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 07:58 Post subject: |
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| Civ01 wrote: | | Interinactive wrote: | | In a pool of what, millions? |
But that PRECISELY my point, dingbat! That's what I said multiple time but you ignored it - it is ALWAYS the vocal minority that boycotts games. ALWAYS was and WILL be. Theres never EVER was a case when actual coordinated (artificial) boycott in the game industry had the amount of people even slightly close to majority of at least a 50%. They [boycotts] never worked and never will because normie consumer always outnumbers any gamer that "risen up".
Back to the subject in the context of which the discussion has started - this whole mess with EGS and talking shit to "gaymers" wont impact Ooblets in any serious way (they lost 90 patreons and gained 40 in 5 days - wow, what an impact already to be seen) because normie dont care or does not know or even supports them. The biggest issue to Ooblets will be if the game turns out to be shit because in this case natutal wallet voting will happen - people wont just buy it. Surely, there will be people who wont buy it on principle but their amount will be ATOMICALLY INSIGNIFICANT in comparison to how many people will buy the game if it is good or how many wont buy it if iti s bad |
responding directly to the effect on ooblets, there's no way it won't affect them for the simple fact that the noise created around it will turn people away, whether that is a significant statistic is pretty meaningless to discuss since we don't know how powerful ooblet/egs advertising will be to offset it. if a website with a large fanbase picks up the story, that will have even larger effect.
The small amount of people directly affected by this will likely make very little difference, because this story is being read by a hell of a lot of people and all of those people will be talking about it.
this would all be non-issue if the devs weren't acting like twats, because that really draws a lot of aggressive and loud people quite capable of having significant effects.
there are plenty of vocal "minorities" that have changed things in gaming, regardless if anyone bought the game or not. if nothing else they will probably ruin the developers lives for the hell of it.
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 08:06 Post subject: |
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to add to this: if they had just apologized and refunded patreons and spoke no more on the issue, they wouldn't be dealing with a PR nightmare that could cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars because they couldn't keep their mouths shut.
i'm sure the money they received from epic would easily offset what they got from the patreon, but the PR damage they have now caused could be prohibitive.
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 10:52 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 13:55 Post subject: |
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| jermore wrote: | | there's no way it won't affect them |
I never said it wont.
| jermore wrote: | | whether that is a significant statistic is pretty meaningless |
How is this meaningless if it is significant or not? The whole meaning is revolves around the fact how big is the effect specific event will have on their sales. I understand you are trying to reiterate Interactive's point that we can't do any judging here because we cant possibly know how many people DID not buy game because hey were boycotting it and how many DIDNT buy/refund it because it was a bad game, but as I mentioned already before - this is irrelevant because we never had a confirmed case when specific game that was "le widely" boycotted - failed hard. You dont need any numbers, just pick a game that vocal minority pushed to "boycott" (as in actual boycott or just indirect "dont buy this game orange developer bad!" or "I wont buy your game now!") and check if, despite good or decent overall reception (to weed out the "natural wallet voting"), - it has completely failed financially because it was artificially "voted out". You wont find one. Why? Because the amount of people who didn't give a shit about specific rage-inducing reason to do not buy the game or simply didnt care or just wasnt aware is always high enough to overturn the imaginary amount of "boycotters".
In other words - a meaningful number.
The ultimate point I'm trying to make here is that the pool or "educated consumers" among gamers that are active on the interwebs and participate in this sort of things when they refuse to buy the game based on some drama or event, unrelated to the game quality itself (as a product) - is just laughable small to actually be considered (i.e. Satisfactory success).
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| Posted: Thu, 8th Aug 2019 17:04 Post subject: |
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| Civ01 wrote: |
Wallet voting in any big media industry (game, movies, music) is a myth in modern era. The percentage of sales it affects is so miniscule, nobody even considers it to be worth counting or mentioning. |
It depends. Most of the times, the reason for the boycott aren't serious enough for enough people to join the boycott. Sometimes the reason for the boycott is the reason it bombs - look at Ghostbusters which was a shitty movie but no-one was waiting for a female Ghostbusters.
But yeah, you're right - too many idiots who dig their own grave and ruin it for those who are more emotionally invested in the business. Loot boxes, DLC, microtransactions - all of this we got casual gamers to thank for.
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