| Page 163 of 170 |
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jackbomb
Posts: 2526
Location: Tortilla de patatas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 19:28 Post subject: |
|
|
I do not know how old you are around here. But a few decades ago it was said the same kind of thing about electronics products made by Japanese, Korean and Thai companies. They were scorned. They said they just imitated and had poor quality in their products. At some point this has changed, just see what they currently represent in this market and in others.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
|
| Posted: Thu, 19th Oct 2017 19:46 Post subject: |
|
|
snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:33; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 00:20 Post subject: |
|
|
Oculus, originally, were all about making a proper consumer VR HMD that was a good a quality as they could reasonably afford. And arguably they succeeded with the DK2.
Then Facebook decided to buy, and Palmer decided to sell (out).
The result? Facebook trying to Apple-ise the VR market, by designing a (admittedly nice) HMD that would appeal to the masses, and by using Fresnel lenses to drop the costs involved in making it. Oh, and not forgetting using slightly cheaper screens that predictably had problems in early batches.
All for the bargain price of $600, it quite literally priced itself out of the market it was originally trying to win over. The Vive, with is huge costs, offset that by offering roomscale, and was seen to be expensive, but reasonable - especially as not everyone had the room.
It comes as no shock whatsoever, that the Rift - with touch controllers - can now sell for $399. Presumably, it still makes a profit - I can't imagine it being sold at a loss. Which, of course, means that the original price was ridiculously inflated to try and appeal to those who could afford it - again presumably thinking that only those with high end PC's can use it, so might as well price it high.
As garus has quite rightly stated, the Oculus Go is their attempt to rectify their original mistake, and make a unit that will get the masses to buy what they consider to be the 'best' version of what is essentially a Gear VR with built in Android phone. No positional tracking means it's only good as a 3d viewer rather than 'proper' VR. The new Santa Cruz apparently has hand positioning... but still no positional tracking... so still pretty crap.
But this is where they (quite rightly) believe their target audience resides. And as such, they have no plans whatsoever in bringing out higher spec, higher res tethered PC versions, as there isn't enough money for them to do so. I FULLY expect, within the next 12-18 months, to have Oculus Home 'streamlined' in such a way that games purchased on there, for the Rift, no longer require it to run - or they'll offer Steam codes for all games.
I am saddened by the way VR was born - it wasn't treated like the holy grail of immersive entertainment it deserved to be. It was treated as a cash grab - a way to lock as many people in as possible, like Apple - except it simply didn't work.
So when Pimax release their 5k and 8k, and it sells like shit off a shovel, you can guarantee that other hardware developers are going to get involved. And eventually, a larger named company is going to deliver something special. (Not Microsoft. They can't even re-invent VR without sounding like idiots. AR indeed  ).
In a way, Facebook and Oculus have done the VR industry a favour. They've shown that people DO want GOOD VR, but they're not going to be fucked around to have it. The Rift is an adequate piece of hardware, but it's already showing its age, and next to the next generation of HMD's, it's going to look positively antiquated... and thus other companies are going to know where not to go wrong.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 16:10 Post subject: |
|
|
snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:33; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 17:50 Post subject: |
|
|
| Kaltern wrote: | Oculus, originally, were all about making a proper consumer VR HMD that was a good a quality as they could reasonably afford. And arguably they succeeded with the DK2.
Then Facebook decided to buy, and Palmer decided to sell (out).
The result? Facebook trying to Apple-ise the VR market, by designing a (admittedly nice) HMD that would appeal to the masses, and by using Fresnel lenses to drop the costs involved in making it. Oh, and not forgetting using slightly cheaper screens that predictably had problems in early batches.
All for the bargain price of $600, it quite literally priced itself out of the market it was originally trying to win over. The Vive, with is huge costs, offset that by offering roomscale, and was seen to be expensive, but reasonable - especially as not everyone had the room.
It comes as no shock whatsoever, that the Rift - with touch controllers - can now sell for $399. Presumably, it still makes a profit - I can't imagine it being sold at a loss. Which, of course, means that the original price was ridiculously inflated to try and appeal to those who could afford it - again presumably thinking that only those with high end PC's can use it, so might as well price it high.
As garus has quite rightly stated, the Oculus Go is their attempt to rectify their original mistake, and make a unit that will get the masses to buy what they consider to be the 'best' version of what is essentially a Gear VR with built in Android phone. No positional tracking means it's only good as a 3d viewer rather than 'proper' VR. The new Santa Cruz apparently has hand positioning... but still no positional tracking... so still pretty crap.
But this is where they (quite rightly) believe their target audience resides. And as such, they have no plans whatsoever in bringing out higher spec, higher res tethered PC versions, as there isn't enough money for them to do so. I FULLY expect, within the next 12-18 months, to have Oculus Home 'streamlined' in such a way that games purchased on there, for the Rift, no longer require it to run - or they'll offer Steam codes for all games.
I am saddened by the way VR was born - it wasn't treated like the holy grail of immersive entertainment it deserved to be. It was treated as a cash grab - a way to lock as many people in as possible, like Apple - except it simply didn't work.
So when Pimax release their 5k and 8k, and it sells like shit off a shovel, you can guarantee that other hardware developers are going to get involved. And eventually, a larger named company is going to deliver something special. (Not Microsoft. They can't even re-invent VR without sounding like idiots. AR indeed ).
In a way, Facebook and Oculus have done the VR industry a favour. They've shown that people DO want GOOD VR, but they're not going to be fucked around to have it. The Rift is an adequate piece of hardware, but it's already showing its age, and next to the next generation of HMD's, it's going to look positively antiquated... and thus other companies are going to know where not to go wrong. |
I dont think Pimax can deliver here ... its not just the screens, but also tracking, controllers. Oculus is a whole package that just works incredibly, and I think they will remain leaders for a while. With a 1080ti and some supersampling, some of the games are so polished, I think oculus still has good two years with this hardware and just should focus on software. There is absolutely no rush for 4K because it needs to be done properly.
fuck ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 19:06 Post subject: |
|
|
I thought the oculus was only on par with vive if you added another tracker? And isn't the pimax compatible with current tracking methods (somehow)? If that is the case, it could be just as good as current solutions.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 19:13 Post subject: |
|
|
ok, the whole 4k per eye thing ... is that at 95HZ? What kind of card car run this?!
fuck ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 19:18 Post subject: |
|
|
You are not required to run it at its full resolution (4k per eye or 8k or whatever it is), as it will upscale input resolutions that are at least comparable to current ones and at similar refreshrates. Of course that means, that part of the high resolution benefit is lost, but at least some mean problems of the current low resolution (and they are really LOW compared to their FOV) can be solved.
ATM I actually wonder if you can output at full resolution at full frame rate? In case cards come along that could actually handle that.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 19:44 Post subject: |
|
|
Look, I will personally apologize to you all if I'm wrong but I just don't buy it ... right now it just sounds too good to be true.
fuck ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
|
| Posted: Fri, 20th Oct 2017 22:14 Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, keep in mind this is all upscaled. Upscaling doesn't improve the rendered resolution, but it will greatly improve jaggies, clarity, eliminate SDE and as a result, make things easier to read and see.
And it'll be futureproof when GPU's can actually render 8k. Of course, the main issues right now is if the LCD is up for the job - they reckon it is, but then they're gonna say that  We'll see - but even if they don't produce the epicness we all want, someone will look at it, say 'we can do that', and do it.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 01:00 Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, after reading the toms hardware writeup about pimax new unit, I am a bit more interested ... definitely going to wait to see how it works out for people but might be totally open to this down the road.
fuck ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
no9999
Posts: 3437
Location: Behind you...
|
| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 15:06 Post subject: |
|
|
| bxrdj wrote: | | Ok, after reading the toms hardware writeup about pimax new unit, I am a bit more interested ... definitely going to wait to see how it works out for people but might be totally open to this down the road. |
Thought i read somewhere that you dont have to buy the trackers or controllers from Pimax because you can use the ones you've got already from Oculus/Vive
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 15:26 Post subject: |
|
|
I think they said so themselves on their crowd funding page
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
|
| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 15:48 Post subject: |
|
|
snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:33; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 17:32 Post subject: |
|
|
| no9999 wrote: | | bxrdj wrote: | | Ok, after reading the toms hardware writeup about pimax new unit, I am a bit more interested ... definitely going to wait to see how it works out for people but might be totally open to this down the road. |
Thought i read somewhere that you dont have to buy the trackers or controllers from Pimax because you can use the ones you've got already from Oculus/Vive |
I think its vive base stations and controllers only, I did not see oculus mentioned, but that would be nice.
fuck ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
|
| Posted: Tue, 24th Oct 2017 17:41 Post subject: |
|
|
It's Vive only, because Oculs' trackers are camera based, and the Vive isn't.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kaltern
Posts: 5859
Location: Lockerbie, Scotland
|
| Posted: Tue, 31st Oct 2017 18:29 Post subject: |
|
|
I am really getting a little excited about this new HMD... I just hope it doesn't have compatibility or tracking issues.
Playing Valheim every weekday at 10pm GMT - twitch.tv/kaltern
Follow me on Twitter if you feel like it... @kaltern
My system: Ryzen 7 3700x|Gigabyte RTX 2080 Super Windforce OC|Vengeance 3000Mz 16Gb RAM|2x 500Gb Samsung EVO 970 M.2 SSD |SanDisk SSD PLUS 240 GB + OCZ Vertex 2 60Gb SSD|EVA Supernova 650W PSU|Logitech G27 Wheel|Logitech G19 Gaming Pad|SteelSeries Arctis 7|Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum Mouse + Logitech MX Master Mouse|Razer Blackwidow Chroma X Keyboard|Oculus Quest 2 + Link|Pixio PX7 Prime 165hz HDR & 1x Samsung 24FG70FQUEN 144Hz curved monitor
-= Word to the wise: Having a higher forum post does not mean you are right. =-
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bxrdj
Posts: 1469
Location: Far from Home
|
| Posted: Tue, 14th Nov 2017 23:35 Post subject: |
|
|
Anyone else playing from other suns tonight? add me on Rift! - bxrdj -
fuck ...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
no9999
Posts: 3437
Location: Behind you...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65045
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Thu, 30th Nov 2017 01:29 Post subject: |
|
|
I'd invest all the savings into a beastly and VR-ready rig and lose myself in the virtual reality if I didn't have to replace my moribund Yaris   |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ankh
Posts: 23275
Location: Trelleborg
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 163 of 170 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
