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Janz




Posts: 14001
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 07:53    Post subject:
480/580 are unavailable, 1070 has risen to a non worthwhile price. 1080 non ti could be an option if you find one cheap (means around 500 euros, think amazon.fr had the kfa² ex oc for 470 last week)

but should be picked in relation to the rest of your system. if you still have an 660 i think a 1060 6GB should be the only option (though prices gone up from ~250 to above 300 euros in the last two weeks too, which makes them not a good deal atm).

long story short: atm its not a good time to buy a new gfx card
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0wen




Posts: 3566
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 12:41    Post subject:
It is funny as I have had my 1070 for almost a year now and it retails for $150 more now then it was when I got it. Those miners really did screw the average gamer.
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9923
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 14:47    Post subject:
all this mining is like the biggest fucking scam ffs , making money of wasting electricity and fooling small people that they can make easy money.

they control their own price , they control supply and the demand, proves how dumb people on this planet really are, trading items of real value for items that do not even exist, virtual currency, mongrols, using natural resources to do so


the sooner this scam is reveleaed the sooner i can have my new vidcard, so time to start blasting some logic to all them youtuber twats promoting this shit and downvote the living hell out of them cunts, cause they making zero dollars from mining even when using daddys power , only from add income
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Bob Barnsen




Posts: 31974
Location: Germoney
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 15:08    Post subject:
Aww Yeah

Enthoo Evolv ATX TG // Asus Prime x370 // Ryzen 1700 // Gainward GTX 1080 // 16GB DDR4-3200
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 15:34    Post subject:
I dislike how every GPU article/thread gets tainted with mining these days (Wonderful that I'm doing it as well!), for that alone I wish it would blow up.

Any who, since I always had a disinterest for it (or I probably forgot)... what is it that mining does? Is the computations/energy used for anything worthwhile or just being wasted on some foolery that's just there to determine you get cash or not?

Tried googling but I just get spammed with tutorials how to, what to buy or prices of the different cryptocurrencies.
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Bob Barnsen




Posts: 31974
Location: Germoney
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 16:08    Post subject:
It's probably just useless computations that don't serve or help anyone.
If it was used for something meaningful at least it wouldn't be so bad - something like SETI for example.

Enthoo Evolv ATX TG // Asus Prime x370 // Ryzen 1700 // Gainward GTX 1080 // 16GB DDR4-3200
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9923
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 17:42    Post subject:
yes thats the worst part about it, its wasted energy 100% , in stead of doing cancer or dna research or space stuff omfg, its fucking criminal waste
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Kanint




Posts: 2356
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 19:10    Post subject:
Morphineus wrote:
Any who, since I always had a disinterest for it (or I probably forgot)... what is it that mining does? Is the computations/energy used for anything worthwhile or just being wasted on some foolery that's just there to determine you get cash or not?

I'm not an expert on crypto-currencies, but from what I understood:
Bitcoin uses their mining power to keep track of the transactions and to make sure they're all legit. The big draw for Bitcoin, outside of anonymity, was that the price for making transactions was lower than traditional means. People keep mining, and they keep the transactions running and secure.

Ethereum attempts to make itself more unique by also allowing people to run "decentralized applications" (dapps) on their network. It's apparently quite popular with various large companies, since using Ether to do some tasks can sometime be cheaper than the alternatives. Some of them (Microsoft, Intel, Mastercard) have created an "alliance" to focus on how to use Ethereum. But from what I understand they're also interested in creating their own private variant of it.
https://entethalliance.org/

This is an old article giving examples of "dapps" made for Ethereum: https://www.coindesk.com/7-cool-decentralized-apps-built-ethereum/
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9923
PostPosted: Sat, 5th Aug 2017 19:15    Post subject:
its like the bank coming to your home to borrow ur computer to keep their network running and threatening u if u dont comply, they will go out of business, deer god , sheer maddnesss
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Shoshomiga




Posts: 2378
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Sun, 6th Aug 2017 10:36    Post subject: I have left.
I have left.
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PickupArtist




Posts: 9923
PostPosted: Sun, 6th Aug 2017 15:38    Post subject:
it will if it tanks, its a buble, i need to find a bank that will let me bet against it, i would spend 10k euros betting it will fail , problem is i dont know when
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Sauronich




Posts: 2062
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 09:08    Post subject:
http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3016-amd-moves-vega-56-embargo-forward-prioritizes-over-64

Quote:
The latest information acquired by GamersNexus includes updated embargo dates pertaining to RX Vega, with news that RX Vega 56 has been abruptly pushed forward to an August 14 review embargo date. Initial plans had the card positioned for a September launch – which remains the target – with reviews coinciding with that launch.

As of today, AMD noted that RX Vega 56 cards have been shipped to reviewers, along with a request that reviewers specifically “prioritize coverage” of RX Vega 56 over RX Vega 64 under time-constrained conditions.


Quote:
Update: Vega 56 launches on 8/28.


Poor Vega 64 is being sent out to die Laughing

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konkol84




Posts: 3679
Location: Po(o)land
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 09:55    Post subject:
they want to push it out asap before the mining fever ends Laughing

Ryzen 7600x/5600x/3600 | 5070TI/3080/3070Ti | 32GB RAM | LG 55OLEDC9/42OLEDC2 |
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 11:50    Post subject:
konkol84 wrote:
they want to push it out asap before the mining fever ends Laughing


Yes and they know it that it will sell like hotcakes for miners, if the hashrate is really that good. There is also this.

https://videocardz.com/71776/amd-is-trying-to-sell-radeon-rx-vega-64-at-a-higher-price
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konkol84




Posts: 3679
Location: Po(o)land
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 13:45    Post subject:
I'm wondering what's the lifespan of a card working 100% 24/7 for a couple of months. It still falls under warranty so it's something which can backfire at them

Ryzen 7600x/5600x/3600 | 5070TI/3080/3070Ti | 32GB RAM | LG 55OLEDC9/42OLEDC2 |
Oculus Quest 2 | Steam Deck
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 13:58    Post subject:
Mining will not kill your card any more than gaming (not that there is people who game 24/7 but still), the thing what kills GPU´s is high temperatures and voltages, you can always undervolt cards and use beefier cooling for VRM and GPU die. Ofcourse mining will put stress on VRM, but if you keep card below thermal limits, it should not be a problem.

I bought couple years ago 290X which had been used for 24/7 mining for like 1 year (with the stock leafblower cooler and insane temps), its still rock solid in my brothers PC with Accelero cooler on it, those things are built to last tho Very Happy.
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WhiteBarbarian




Posts: 6011
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 14:04    Post subject:
Constant load is not a problem. Rapid change in temperature is much worse. Cards in gaming PC doing IDLE: 30+ °C <--> LOAD: 70+ °C multiple times per day are under much more stress.
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JBeckman
VIP Member



Posts: 34999
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 14:11    Post subject:
Heh yeah the 290X is pretty sturdy, default cooler is rated for 95c on the GPU and it might hit that pretty easily while sounding like a hairdryer (Or worse?) but the GPU and VRM's can take that and keep going though there's not a huge threshold after that beforethe GPU ramps fan speed to 100% to avoid downclocking if the heat gets too troublesome.

AMD's newer Fury GPU's also run at a threshold of 80 degrees though third party models can have bios switches for adjusting this (85 Celsius on my own model for example.) to allow for greater thermal and power control when overclocking, not that the GPU overclocks very well in actuality and the gains in-game are mostly minimal even if you completely kill it with a 1.3v GPU power target and 1100+ Mhz core clocks. Very Happy

From what I've read the Vega is pretty close to max on stock already even when you improve it's airflow and thus improve the temperature threshold but that was measured with the Frontier version which has some drawbacks and is a bit locked so these "gaming" Vega GPU's might fare a little bit better. (HBM2 memory is also pushed a bit, doubt you can overclock these officially either but they might already be pretty close to the limit from the leaked info so far.)

And yeah if the GPU is running near 100 degrees Celsius the VRM's are probably some 20% hotter still so those need really good cooling for optimal conditions even if they're rated for something like 150 degrees before things get critical.

Lower is better if at all possible but mining probably pushes them pretty far due to how taxing it is for the GPU plus the 24/7 runtime though they might still be serviceable for reselling even so, varies from GPU to GPU just how far you can push them.
(If mining is still a thing then acquiring a Vega might not be easy outside of third party sales either depending on how things go.)


EDIT: Well come next week we should start seeing some more info finally once the NDA's are up, unsure how well AMD can maintain availability though but the 500 series and such GPU's using GDDR aren't doing too great going by a few bigger e-stores here so these using the more limited HBM2 chips are probably going to be rare even for the initial shipments, will be interesting to see the third party models too even if they might have problems remaining in stock for long. Very Happy


Last edited by JBeckman on Fri, 11th Aug 2017 14:14; edited 1 time in total
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 14:12    Post subject:
PNY apparently has changed their warranty rules that if card has been used for mining they will not honor their warranty policy on em... Laughing

Ok ok, good idea, but you cannot tell any way the card has been mined, its the same that you cannot tell if the card is overclocked.

Perhaps they have some windows/facebook spying tools inside their bios.
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Janz




Posts: 14001
PostPosted: Fri, 11th Aug 2017 14:17    Post subject:
na its just to exclude big mining farms from their warranty. if you as private person use the warranty they wont decline it in any way
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 09:53    Post subject:
http://www.hwbattle.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=hottopic&wr_id=7333&ckattempt=3

Leaked benchmarks of Vega 64 air & Liquid cooling editions, in a nutshell, vega 64 liquid cooled edition is little bit faster than stock 1080FE on some games (overall same performance), consumes nearly 500Watts of power when overclocked (GPU alone), sounds like true successor for Fermi Laughing, jesus what major fail. ofcourse these can be fake results, but i think they are real deal.



Laughing Laughing

This card should come with turbo spool sounds on high framerates (modified VRM buzzing sound), would be very manly card.
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riptide77




Posts: 2114
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 11:20    Post subject:
The thread on the forum where the benchmarks were leaked is not accesible.

Wccftech copied the review and pics: http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-64-review-leak/

-=the wandering pillow stuffer=-
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 11:34    Post subject:
Well that was fast, we can assume it is the real deal, looks that AMD failed very hard this time, shame since their new CPU´s are very good, but hey, you cant be good in everything.

Miners are gonna need nuclear power plant to run AMD RX Vega mining farms Laughing
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riptide77




Posts: 2114
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 11:38    Post subject:
If the Vega cards suck at mining even the miners won't want them. Razz

We'll get info on Vega's mining performance soon enough.

-=the wandering pillow stuffer=-
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34999
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 12:43    Post subject:
Well the default power draw of 400w is pretty high though I'm not surprised since these appear to be pretty similar to the previous Fury with some tweaks but clocked really high.

But they further overclock it by straight up setting the power limit to an additional +50% so no surprises power usage goes through the roof.
(To a point, it can't really draw more than it can receive from 2x 8-pin and the PCI-E slot after all plus increased heat and voltage likely trips the thresholds where the GPU will try to reduce consumption to avoid issues.)

Makes sense though they would have these if the GPU is as inefficient for power usage / clock speed as the Fury was, improvements to the chip probably helps but the massive clock speed increase would probably require some pretty hefty power draw to avoid hitting any limiting factors so for third party models I would not be too surprised for triple-slot air cooler designs or even 3x 8-pin connectors if the manufacturer is trying to stabilize the clock boost speeds.


GCN needs a more thorough overhaul or perhaps a new architecture entirely, Nvidia has a pretty clear lead here and who knows how Volta will be improving on that for their gaming line of GPU's using that chip so Navi or what was next for AMD needs to be a pretty big step up from the existing design.

Seems the Vega GPU architecture improvements don't really impact performance much in existing games either from what I've read plus the high clock speed should have been showing bigger gains compared to the existing Fury but it doesn't really work too well and as seen here it takes a hefty amount of power too.


EDIT: So this ended up possibly being somewhat of the AMD Bulldozer for GPU's, will be interesting then to see if they can turn Navi into what Ryzen managed on the CPU side, or how to say. Razz Price is also a problem and availability might be a concern though if mining sees these as a low return investment it might not be as big of a pain as the 400 and 500 series GPU's currently are.
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paxsali
Banned



Posts: 18352
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 13:23    Post subject:
⁢⁢


Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 21:10; edited 1 time in total
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 14:01    Post subject:
paxsali wrote:
JBeckman wrote:
Well the default power draw of 400w is pretty high though I'm not surprised since these appear to be pretty similar to the previous Fury with some tweaks but clocked really high.


You sure it's 400W??? Sauce pls.




Charts from the topic what AMD closed, so i guess they are real. Has several different power modes, but the balanced mode (a.k.a GTX 1080 performance) averages around 380watts (fucking insane tbh..).

JBeckman wrote:
Well the default power draw of 400w is pretty high though I'm not surprised since these appear to be pretty similar to the previous Fury with some tweaks but clocked really high.

But they further overclock it by straight up setting the power limit to an additional +50% so no surprises power usage goes through the roof.
(To a point, it can't really draw more than it can receive from 2x 8-pin and the PCI-E slot after all plus increased heat and voltage likely trips the thresholds where the GPU will try to reduce consumption to avoid issues.)

Makes sense though they would have these if the GPU is as inefficient for power usage / clock speed as the Fury was, improvements to the chip probably helps but the massive clock speed increase would probably require some pretty hefty power draw to avoid hitting any limiting factors so for third party models I would not be too surprised for triple-slot air cooler designs or even 3x 8-pin connectors if the manufacturer is trying to stabilize the clock boost speeds.


GCN needs a more thorough overhaul or perhaps a new architecture entirely, Nvidia has a pretty clear lead here and who knows how Volta will be improving on that for their gaming line of GPU's using that chip so Navi or what was next for AMD needs to be a pretty big step up from the existing design.

Seems the Vega GPU architecture improvements don't really impact performance much in existing games either from what I've read plus the high clock speed should have been showing bigger gains compared to the existing Fury but it doesn't really work too well and as seen here it takes a hefty amount of power too.


EDIT: So this ended up possibly being somewhat of the AMD Bulldozer for GPU's, will be interesting then to see if they can turn Navi into what Ryzen managed on the CPU side, or how to say. Razz Price is also a problem and availability might be a concern though if mining sees these as a low return investment it might not be as big of a pain as the 400 and 500 series GPU's currently are.


Navi is supposed to use 7nm manufacturing process and has some dedicated AI cores, maybe the card will be smart enough to keep temperatures cool and power draw below 500W Cool Face
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paxsali
Banned



Posts: 18352
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 14:28    Post subject:
⁢⁢


Last edited by paxsali on Thu, 4th Jul 2024 21:10; edited 1 time in total
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Nui
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Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 14:51    Post subject:
Didn't amd advertise higher performance/watt for vega? Is that even true, under any circumstance?
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Breezer_




Posts: 10826
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon, 14th Aug 2017 16:03    Post subject:
Reviews are out. Here is the hash rate what its pushing out Cool Face What happened to the nearly 100mh/s? Very Happy



Vega 56 seems to be pretty good card for the price, around 1500mhz clocks it gives beating to a 2Ghz GTX 1070.
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