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 Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:13 Post subject: |
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Using arguments like that means Diablo has infinite variety because it has infinite weapons and thousands of enemy types.
Also, not every weapon has a unique moveset - that's bullshit. Beyond that, some people actually enjoy things beyond melee combat and grindy pattern recognition.
Demon's Souls was great - but every one of these games are essentially exactly the same. If that's variety to you, that's cool.
Again, to each his own.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:19 Post subject: |
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@Casus | Quote: | | every one of these games are essentially exactly the same |
Wut? It's the same as claiming that "every one of these dramas(films) are essentially exactly the same".
Level design? Lore? Bosses? Ru even serious? 
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:26 Post subject: |
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Nodrim
Posts: 9603
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:27 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | Using arguments like that means Diablo has infinite variety because it has infinite weapons and thousands of enemy types.
Also, not every weapon has a unique moveset - that's bullshit. Beyond that, some people actually enjoy things beyond melee combat and grindy pattern recognition.
Demon's Souls was great - but every one of these games are essentially exactly the same. If that's variety to you, that's cool.
Again, to each his own. |
Yes, because the weapons in Diablo have different move sets that totally change the way how the combat works. And the enemies in Diablo are all about fairness and not about outnumbering the player to force spams of AoE attacks.
Where did I say that every weapon has an unique moveset? Do tell, because my post is above and I can't see it. If people enjoy something else than melee combat than the Souls-like games aren't for them, this doesn't make them less complex.
That walking away!
Last edited by Nodrim on Tue, 16th May 2017 10:31; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:30 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | Casus wrote: | Using arguments like that means Diablo has infinite variety because it has infinite weapons and thousands of enemy types.
Also, not every weapon has a unique moveset - that's bullshit. Beyond that, some people actually enjoy things beyond melee combat and grindy pattern recognition.
Demon's Souls was great - but every one of these games are essentially exactly the same. If that's variety to you, that's cool.
Again, to each his own. |
Yes, because the weapons in Diablo have different move sets that totally change the way how the combat works. And the enemies in Diablo are all about fairness and not about outnumbering the player to force spams of AoE attacks.
Where did I say that every weapon has an unique moveset? Do tell, because my post is above and I can't see it. If people enjoy something else than melee combat than the Souls-like games aren't for them, this doesn't make them less complex. |
That's true, I definitely want more than exclusively melee combat in my games 
Oh, so it's not about weapon variety now. It's about the movesets? I guess if having a few different movesets in combat is enough to carry an identical gameplay structure over and over again - that's cool.
Diablo bosses are not about outnumbering the player, really. It's much the same concept of having a pattern you need to learn - and that's it. Dodge this, focus on that and boss = dead. The challenge in Souls clones is about having to redo a bunch of trivial grindy content if you die - and apparently that's what makes the games great.
Some people think that's variety and super interesting. I don't.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9603
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:34 Post subject: |
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| Nodrim wrote: | | There is indeed little variety in a game with 15-30 weapons with different movesets |
| Casus wrote: |
Oh, so it's not about weapon variety now. It's about the movesets?
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Read this a few times and if you didn't get it read it a few more times.
And while at it, can you please stop filling a page with the same posts:
| Casus wrote: |
To each his own, though. |
| Casus wrote: |
Again, to each his own. |
| Casus wrote: |
Some people think that's variety and super interesting. I don't. |
| Casus wrote: |
You guys love the games and think they're full of variety. I don't.
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| Casus wrote: | If that's variety to you, that's cool.
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You might think saying the same thing multiple times turns it into an argument, but no, it doesn't, it's pretty much spam.
Last edited by Nodrim on Tue, 16th May 2017 10:37; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:35 Post subject: |
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I've tried, and I still don't get it. Maybe you need to decide what your point is?
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:35 Post subject: |
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Well this one doesn't but every DS game (not sure about Lotf) has magic, 2 or 3 different types/schools of magic at that so it's not really limited to melee combat in the first place.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:36 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | Well this one doesn't but every DS game (not sure about Lotf) has magic, 2 or 3 different types/schools of magic at that so it's not really limited to melee combat in the first place. |
Let's not kid ourselves here. It also has archery - but it's similarly underwhelming.
The game clearly revolves around melee combat in terms of what's "special" about it.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:40 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You might think saying the same thing multiple times turns it into an argument, but no, it doesn't, it's pretty much spam. |
If it's just spam, then why do you keep arguing? That doesn't make much sense. Just accept it as spam containing a different opinion than yours.
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Nodrim
Posts: 9603
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:42 Post subject: |
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Because I have a really low tolerance for bullshit.
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Nodrim
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tonizito
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Location: Portugal, the shithole of Europe.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:51 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | | tonizito wrote: | | Well this one doesn't but every DS game (not sure about Lotf) has magic, 2 or 3 different types/schools of magic at that so it's not really limited to melee combat in the first place. |
Let's not kid ourselves here. It also has archery - but it's similarly underwhelming.
The game clearly revolves around melee combat in terms of what's "special" about it. |
Not really.
The "special" is more related to the world(s) depicted and on slow, careful exploration.
But it has more than just "that" melee combat about it.
| boundle (thoughts on cracking AITD) wrote: | | i guess thouth if without a legit key the installation was rolling back we are all fucking then |
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 10:55 Post subject: |
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| tonizito wrote: | | Casus wrote: | | tonizito wrote: | | Well this one doesn't but every DS game (not sure about Lotf) has magic, 2 or 3 different types/schools of magic at that so it's not really limited to melee combat in the first place. |
Let's not kid ourselves here. It also has archery - but it's similarly underwhelming.
The game clearly revolves around melee combat in terms of what's "special" about it. |
Not really.
The "special" is more related to the world(s) depicted and on slow, careful exploration.
But it has more than just "that" melee combat about it. |
Yeah, I know a lot of people think so. Personally, I find it dreary and dull in terms of exploration. I mean, it has neat vistas - but all the rooms and places feel identical and has near zero interactivity beyond the odd lever or whatever.
The lore is made up of tiny bits and pieces that I really have no motivation to care about, because it has such an awful presentation.
That said, if the games had proper cooperative gameplay - I'd be able to enjoy it as a different kind of action RPG.
I did enjoy Demon's Souls - but I just can't tolerate the same thing so many times in a row.
Just not my thing.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 12:20 Post subject: |
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Any way to turn off the shitty music that plays in the medlab? Apart from disabling music altogether.
| Frant wrote: | | Shitass games are ruining piracy. |
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 12:48 Post subject: |
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@Casus | Quote: | | It also has archery - but it's similarly underwhelming. |
Comparing archery in DS games to sorcery\miracles in terms of being underwhelming?  Have u even played these games to call them "similarly underwhelming" ? Coz only someone who haven't played them or haven't used magic at all would make such a statement.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 12:55 Post subject: |
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@Casus
No, not because it differs from yours. Because what the game has to offer in terms of magic compared to almost broken and limited in every way archery contradicts your statement.Facts are not on your side. 
It's your right not to like magic and archery but saying they are similar in terms of being underwhelming is such a gross exaggeration.
But you are right, let's leave it at that. This thread is not about DS.
| Quote: | | If you found the magic system overwhelmingly good |
I haven't. It's OK\Okeish. But in terms of mechanics, controls, and how magic works in this game and in terms of its viability it's much better than ,yes, underwhelming, archery.
| Quote: | | never used it much |
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Last edited by h0rnyfavn on Tue, 16th May 2017 13:00; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 13:46 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | Using arguments like that means Diablo has infinite variety because it has infinite weapons and thousands of enemy types.
Also, not every weapon has a unique moveset - that's bullshit. Beyond that, some people actually enjoy things beyond melee combat and grindy pattern recognition.
Demon's Souls was great - but every one of these games are essentially exactly the same. If that's variety to you, that's cool.
Again, to each his own. |
yeah, these rng thingy is a nice +1, but nothing more, not infinte amount of variety.
Variety only means something when it has an end and a bold difference between each one of the variants.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 13:50 Post subject: |
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| Ampee wrote: | | Casus wrote: | Using arguments like that means Diablo has infinite variety because it has infinite weapons and thousands of enemy types.
Also, not every weapon has a unique moveset - that's bullshit. Beyond that, some people actually enjoy things beyond melee combat and grindy pattern recognition.
Demon's Souls was great - but every one of these games are essentially exactly the same. If that's variety to you, that's cool.
Again, to each his own. |
yeah, these rng thingy is a nice +1, but nothing more, not infinte amount of variety.
Variety only means something when it has an end and a bold difference between each one of the variants. |
Agreed. It comes in many flavors, too.
Dark Souls games have nice variety in terms of melee combat and melee weapons - but I'm not a big fan of the stat-driven progression system.
I'd take Diablo 3 and its many dozens of visually distinct powers over these stat increases, that's for sure.
I do appreciate that the combat is challenging and that it's very timing sensitive. That's one kind of challenge, and I do like it.
However, I do NOT enjoy the artificially inflated difficulty in place - forcing you to redo tons of content because of a mistake. I mean, that's the same kind of hollow difficulty "enhancer" as limited checkpoints in console games.
Dark Souls would be a 10 hour game if it had quick save and quick load. That alone should tell you something about how meaningful the challenge really is.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 14:27 Post subject: |
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@Casus | Quote: | | Dark Souls would be a 10 hour game |
Any proof to support this statement?
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 14:44 Post subject: |
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If you quick save and quick load a boss for an hour, it still counts as an hour played.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 15:36 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | If you quick save and quick load a boss for an hour, it still counts as an hour played. |
yeah, but he means that when he dies quickly reloads it, and tries again, don't have to work your way back to it from the start.
Also quicksaving after every boss phase should make things easy.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 16:09 Post subject: |
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| Stormwolf wrote: | | If you quick save and quick load a boss for an hour, it still counts as an hour played. |
Of course it does. But it's still much less than having to grind your way back and you'll never lose XP that way.
Imagine how long Witcher 3 on Death March would be with no saves.
It's how games in the 70s and early 80s worked, because we had little in the way of permanent storage.
I have no idea why people are jumping up and down with glee because of such a cheap throwback to ancient times, but again, to each his own.
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 16:13 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: |
I have no idea why people are jumping up and down with glee because of such a cheap throwback to ancient times, but again, to each his own. |
People also love pixel graphics in 2017 for some reason
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| Posted: Tue, 16th May 2017 16:15 Post subject: |
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| madness wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
I have no idea why people are jumping up and down with glee because of such a cheap throwback to ancient times, but again, to each his own. |
People also love pixel graphics in 2017 for some reason |
Yeah, another one of those things I'll never really understand. I mean, it's a cute nostalgia trip to have once or twice, but seriously? Half the games released these days employ some kind of archaic restriction of the 80s.
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