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 Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 00:38 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | The "role" part especially, goes against the whole idea of roleplaying. |
Huh? Quite the opposite clasical role playing games with proper game masters allowed you to ROLE PLAY someone else not to create an avatar and make decisions as you would.
So you need to get in the role of Geralt and play his role.
Yeah your roles are pretty limited but this goes nothing against idea of roleplaying.
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 01:59 Post subject: |
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Quote where i said it isnt roleplaying... it is.
Also, it has classes, and attributes... so its different and more classic RPG id say. But yes you are the Nameless, though since its party based you really are several classes and characters in PS:T. But again, lets not have this boring discussion.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 02:12 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | Quote where i said it isnt roleplaying... it is. |
Ofc it is and it doesn't matter if the protagonist is predetermined, also in PnP RPGs there's alot of systems out there that dont use classes at all.
GURPS is a famous example, as are World of Darkness and EABA, Runequest,Traveller and so on, classes are just one way to do it there are a lot of other approaches.
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 02:24 Post subject: |
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| tet666 wrote: | | vurt wrote: | | Quote where i said it isnt roleplaying... it is. |
Ofc it is and it doesn't matter if the protagonist is predetermined |
I think to a lot of people it really does matter. Imo, one of the most fun things to do is to plan your character, background and your class. It's something that makes roleplaying games different from playing as Lara Croft or as Geralt, since you play your very own creation, down to intellect or strength to see how it works out in the different situations you will be facing. I think to a lot of people that is the very core of a true RPG and what makes people think of roleplaying.
But yes there are obviously RPGs that does it differently than e.g D&D.. I remember there were very light "RPG's" where you would just read a book and you had different choices and they would just lead you to a new page in the book, e.g "go to page 80". For cRPGs we have everything from super hardcore with basically just numbers and no graphics to ultra light.. TW3 is a pretty good mix, obviously leaning towards a pretty light RPG.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 03:06 Post subject: |
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Witcher 3 is not a cRPG to begin with, it's an action RPG, sames goes with Skyrim and Dark Souls series. Each has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. Both Skyrim and Witcher have mediocre combat, DS has great combat. Both DS and Witcher have great writing (one with a much more explicit style than the other), Skyrim has terrible writing and storytelling. Skyrim is largely the most freeform game out of the 3, the one that gives the player the highest level of freedom. Both Skyrim and Dark Souls have classes and specializations, Witcher has none. Both Skyrim and Dark Souls lack in the dialogue/decision branching system, Witcher excels at it.
All the elements mentioned for the comparisons are RPG elements. We could go on and on, fact is all 3 are role-playing games (of the action sub-genre).
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 08:20 Post subject: |
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russ80
Posts: 4679
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 09:18 Post subject: |
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Can we get dark souls 3 combat, skyrim character creator and mods and witcher 3 quests/story?
I also love creating my own character, so yes bit disappointed. Adds replayability. And i dont count the 'skills' in w3 as replayability. Id love to be able to play w3 as an assassin/thief, a mage... Etc you get the idea.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 09:28 Post subject: |
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RPGs are a bit hard to define these days, a lot of other genres took inspiration from it ( for example some sports titles have character creations and more stats then actual RPGs now) and there are a lot of sub genres like Action-RPGs, Tactical or Strategy RPGs,JRPGs (yes this is a distinct sub genre as well no matter what people think it doesn't even matter if the game was actually made in Japan there are some good western made JRPGs) and so on they are all proper RPGs they just focus on different things in the genre.
I think this wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game
explains all of this very well.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 09:34 Post subject: |
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I don't really fret about genres. I don't much care, except as a shorthand when you don't have the time or inclination to go into great detail.
To me, Witcher 3 is mostly about the story and the characters. The actual gameplay isn't that great. Oh, I mean, the combat is smooth and reasonably entertaining - but it's also incredibly samey from start to finish. Character progression is kinda boring, loot is crap - and freeform exploration is a bad joke compared to the best games.
However, the story, dialogue and world are all amazing.
To me, it might as well have been a huge linear adventure game - and it would still have been a similar experience.
But, since I'm not THAT big a fan of adventure games, I couldn't actually finish it. I've played around 100 hours - and I finished most of Skellige - but then I just got sick of it.
The mechanics and the gameplay just couldn't sustain my interest - and I doubt I'll ever finish it.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 09:48 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | I don't really fret about genres. I don't much care, except as a shorthand when you don't have the time or inclination to go into great detail.
To me, Witcher 3 is mostly about the story and the characters. The actual gameplay isn't that great. Oh, I mean, the combat is smooth and reasonably entertaining - but it's also incredibly samey from start to finish. Character progression is kinda boring, loot is crap - and freeform exploration is a bad joke compared to the best games.
However, the story, dialogue and world are all amazing.
To me, it might as well have been a huge linear adventure game - and it would still have been a similar experience.
But, since I'm not THAT big a fan of adventure games, I couldn't actually finish it. I've played around 100 hours - and I finished most of Skellige - but then I just got sick of it.
The mechanics and the gameplay just couldn't sustain my interest - and I doubt I'll ever finish it. |
The best advice i can give is turn off the map markers for all the useless clutter on the map and focus on the main and some of the sidequests you probably got sidetracked by all the useless stuff if you where only at skellige by that time and got burned out which is pretty common for games like this.
Last edited by tet666 on Wed, 6th Jul 2016 09:56; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 09:51 Post subject: |
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| tet666 wrote: | | Casus wrote: | I don't really fret about genres. I don't much care, except as a shorthand when you don't have the time or inclination to go into great detail.
To me, Witcher 3 is mostly about the story and the characters. The actual gameplay isn't that great. Oh, I mean, the combat is smooth and reasonably entertaining - but it's also incredibly samey from start to finish. Character progression is kinda boring, loot is crap - and freeform exploration is a bad joke compared to the best games.
However, the story, dialogue and world are all amazing.
To me, it might as well have been a huge linear adventure game - and it would still have been a similar experience.
But, since I'm not THAT big a fan of adventure games, I couldn't actually finish it. I've played around 100 hours - and I finished most of Skellige - but then I just got sick of it.
The mechanics and the gameplay just couldn't sustain my interest - and I doubt I'll ever finish it. |
The best advice i can give is turn off the map markers for all the useless clutter on the map and focus on the main and some of the sidequests you probably got sidetracked by all the useless stuff if you where only at skellige by that time and got burned out which is pretty common for games like this. |
I did that on my second attempt - and I was just getting into it when they released Blood and Wine - and all my mods became incompatible 
I would probably enjoy it if I had the time - but I find I can't really get into huge games like this unless I have several days of free time, which is extremely rare for me. For Witcher 3 - I'd probably need 2 weeks off at least, and then I'd have to do stuff with my GF, etc.
I can't play a little here and a little there without losing my immersion and stuff.
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tonizito
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vurt
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 15:59 Post subject: |
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| Casus wrote: | and freeform exploration is a bad joke compared to the best games.
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Which games are better then? As a big fan of exploration RPG's I dont agree at all, i think its fantastic in that sense, one of the best and what i enjoy the most in this game (I'm not a huge character/story fan really, i can do without it almost completely in exploration games and still be quite happy).
E.g dive under water, get access to a cave that leads into a castle. Most of the time the design feels very organic and like actual places. I also loved Fyke Island and many other unique places. Still have lots of places and zones left to visist (Skellige, the DLC's + some other areas).
The climbing is farily good too, which surprised me, i was expecting it to be crap, but its simliar to Gothic2.. You can also travel by boat, something you cant do in either Skyrim or Gothic.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:13 Post subject: |
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Aside from the Gothic games (and Stalker games), I never really liked open games. In fact, most open RPGs, imho, narratively suffer because of the open world setting. The only part I was skeptical about with W3 was the world part. And in all honesty, even someone like me, who does not find exploring all that important, scoured every damned inch of the playarea. Mostly on foot, not even horse.
I just can't praise W3 high enough. Truly one of the best games ever made, no doubt.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:18 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | Casus wrote: | and freeform exploration is a bad joke compared to the best games.
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Which games are better then? As a big fan of exploration RPG's I dont agree at all, i think its fantastic in that sense, one of the best and what i enjoy the most in this game (I'm not a huge character/story fan really, i can do without it almost completely in exploration games and still be quite happy).
E.g dive under water, get access to a cave that leads into a castle. Most of the time the design feels very organic and like actual places. I also loved Fyke Island and many other unique places. Still have lots of places and zones left to visist (Skellige, the DLC's + some other areas).
The climbing is farily good too, which surprised me, i was expecting it to be crap, but its simliar to Gothic2.. You can also travel by boat, something you cant do in either Skyrim or Gothic. |
We've had this discussion around here too many times, I don't really feel like repeating it. It should be easy to find my arguments in this very thread.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:20 Post subject: |
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| tet666 wrote: |
The best advice i can give is turn off the map markers for all the useless clutter on the map and focus on the main and some of the sidequests you probably got sidetracked by all the useless stuff if you where only at skellige by that time and got burned out which is pretty common for games like this. |
yep. exploration in this game (and really most modern games with invasive hud and extensive map marking) only makes sense and is rewarding, once you disable all the hand holding crap that completely removes exploration and turns it into a "from a to b" gps tracking mini game. of course it's boring like that. try finding a location with just a compass mod and the quest description. every quest will be a much longer and rewarding experience, because you add several extra layers onto the game meta.
I'm playing arma 3 this way atm, and just figuring out your location and the location you need to reach becomes half the game challenge.
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:31 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | | Casus wrote: |
We've had this discussion around here too many times, I don't really feel like repeating it. It should be easy to find my arguments in this very thread. |
600 pages to go through :/
Would be really cool to know which RPG's you think have better exploration, not gonna start a discussion, just want to know, maybe i've missed one of em  |
Just promise me not to react with great emotion because I dare to criticise the perfect Witcher 3, ok? 
Remember, I REALLY like Witcher 3 - and I think it's a beautiful game with fantastic writing.
I think it's key to understand that I'm talking about freeform exploration - by which I mean the exploration that happens when you go exploring outside quests - with no specific goal in mind.
I think Witcher 3 freeform exploration was very underwhelming because of the PoI design - and the crappy loot. PoIs were incredibly repetitive - with almost no variety (guarded chest, mob spawn point, etc.) - and the fact that "Witcher Gear" was FAR superior to ALL other loot, it meant that you couldn't hope to find an upgrade except once in a blue moon. Beyond that, the XP you get for killing mobs is pathetic - which took away yet another incentive to go spelunking.
Personally, I prefer unique hand-crafted content like journals or little stories - and things like that.
I'm also a HUGE fan of dungeons with puzzles/riddles and so on. Witcher 3 had almost no dungeons - and the few I could find were tied into side-quests, and not meant for freeform exploration.
Most RPGs with open worlds and freeform exploration are quite superior in this way - including Gothic (1+2), Risen (1-3), Skyrim, Fallout 3+4 and so on.
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:42 Post subject: |
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I agree with the dungeons, the ones it does have are good though. Gothic's doesnt really have them to any greater extent either.
Ok, then i understand better what you mean with freeform, i will have to agree there too. At least in comparsion to something which can be heavily modded, like Skyrim.. There you can have the whole survival apsect even, an adventure of just finding shelter because of cold or becaue you are wet and similar things, i absolutely love that in games, i enjoy my own little adventures more than crafted ones. I think i might grow tired of bandit camps, guarded treasure etc. It's similar to what we had in games such as the recent FarCry games, it gets boring :/
I think i will enjoy it for much konger here because of the amazing work they have done with the map design though, i love exploring the game. I guess i will know in maybe 20-30h
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:44 Post subject: |
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I thought everyone knew the exploration was underwhelming? There is no argument there at all.
I usually go for 100% in RPG games, and even tried here. But boy, it got tiresome. Skellige is such a huge mess with all those smuggler's cache. If it provided something good, it would have been nice, but nope, more crap loot.
Second, it was 'empty' is most places. Usually I like to see some monsters around when roaming around, but here, I rarely found any who isn't already linked with marker.
It's the characters and story that kept in for very long.
The way I see it, every life is a pile of good things and bad things. The good things don’t always soften the bad things, but vice versa, the bad things don’t always spoil the good things and make them unimportant.
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:45 Post subject: |
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| vurt wrote: | I agree with the dungeons, the ones it does have are good though. Gothic's doesnt really have them to any greater extent either.
Ok, then i understand better what you mean with freeform, i will have to agree there too. At least in comparsion to something which can be heavily modded, like Skyrim.. There you can have the whole survival apsect even, an adventure of just finding shelter because of cold or becaue you are wet and similar things, i absolutely love that in games, i enjoy my own little adventures more than crafted ones. I think i might grow tired of bandit camps, guarded treasure etc. It's similar to what we had in games such as the recent FarCry games, it gets boring :/
I think i will enjoy it for much konger here because of the amazing work they have done with the map design though, i love exploring the game. I guess i will know in maybe 20-30h |
Wait, you haven't completed it yet?
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:45 Post subject: |
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| IamAWESOME wrote: | I thought everyone knew the exploration was underwhelming? There is no argument there at all.
I usually go for 100% in RPG games, and even tried here. But boy, it got tiresome. Skellige is such a huge mess with all those smuggler's cache. If it provided something good, it would have been nice, but nope, more crap loot.
Second, it was 'empty' is most places. Usually I like to see some monsters around when roaming around, but here, I rarely found any who isn't already linked with marker.
It's the characters and story that kept in for very long. |
Trust me, not everyone agrees
I've been more or less crucified several times for daring to suggest exploration wasn't quite where it needed to be.
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 16:49 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 19:15 Post subject: |
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vurt
Posts: 13826
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 19:43 Post subject: |
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I like the upgrades in G2, i like that better than in Witcher and in many or most other RPG's. Because getting the armor upgrades is a pretty big thing here, not something that happens every 30 minutes or something, so when it happens its a "YES! Finally!" instead of a "meh, ok..".
But loot? Is there really anything worthwhile? Maybe my memory is failing me completely here. I did like the perm stat upgrades from extremely rare plants, those are cool and fun to find.
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JBeckman
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| Posted: Wed, 6th Jul 2016 20:29 Post subject: |
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Gothic 2 had some pretty decent items hidden away although mostly for late-game as more of the game world became accessible.
Gothic 3 did too but it was broken and mostly non-functional until the unofficial patches sorted it out.
(Open 50 special chest with progressively better item rewards spread all over the game world, bit weird but those items were the best in the game although if you don't mind a bit of stealing you can get some really powerful stuff even very early on aside from armor which is once again mostly locked behind factions though a bit more open but you still need some points with each major faction to get the best stuff which if done carelessly will make you hostile towards the other factions in the process.)
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but im also not someone who follows guides to get the best gear as fast as possible etc.
