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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:00 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | LeoNatan wrote: |
Not me. I support anyone's right to pirate. It's not "stealing". I'd be for anyone's right to download/print a car as well - that is not stealing. Stealing is taking something physical. But I would criticize someone saying a car is a bad car because it uses some material which cannot be 3D printed. That is ridiculous. |
Except in this case, it's people saying they won't support a company using an intrusive or restrictive DRM but they are still willing to pirate it. I'd you want to use a car analogy, it's like saying they wouldn't buy a VW due to the pollution cheating but would still ride in one or loan a friend's car  There's a difference between boycotting and not financially supporting and many reasons are valid IMO. |
But let's look at what is actually happening. As usual with the hypocrisy here and reddit, people don't mind paying for Steam India and play Denuvo games for cheap. Or use Steam sharing to play it. They don't care one bit that there is Denuvo because it just works. So in this case, it's exactly the analogy you mentioned that is happening, they won't but the car /game/, but will load it from a friend /Steam family sharing/.
| sabin1981 wrote: | That's right Leo, ignore the hard questions in order to pick the low hanging fruit. You seem awfully defensive. Wait you're a coder aren't you? Working on Denuvo, mayhap? 
Oh well. Whatever. |
Defensive because I want proof, not FUD? Hard questions? 
Right, and the usual idiot retort, if you want proof before falling for bullshit, you are a representative of the company.  Someone said this idiot forum stooped to Reddit levels? |
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:03 Post subject: |
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It was a sarcastic jocular comment based on your, quite intense, levels of defense of Denuvo whenever someone has a problem with it. Almost parental levels of defense. Defense absent from the discussion of *any* other DRM measure encountered so far.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:04 Post subject: |
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Isn't that how I always post? It's how I do. That's ad hominem. You have nothing else to say on the topic with substance, so you go after me.
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:06 Post subject: |
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Has anyone benchmarked gta 4 with and without the protection? I bet there is no framerate difference. Only some non-performance-critical code gets run as vmprotect bytecode, normally.
Not sure about activation or online requirement, heh.
Last edited by VGAdeadcafe on Fri, 27th May 2016 13:07; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:07 Post subject: |
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I have nothing else to say because I'm not a programmer or someone with the skills and knowledge to reverse engineer something in order to satisfy you. Just because I can't give.you want you ask for, does not mean it doesn't exist and whenever information *is* posted, you dismiss it as reddit/rin FUD.
Oh and yes, Denuvo has a daily activation limit. It may well even have a hard life limit too though I doubt anyone has bothered testing dozens of reinstall in order to find out :/
Last edited by sabin1981 on Fri, 27th May 2016 13:11; edited 1 time in total
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:08 Post subject: |
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and this is pretty much my main issue with that ... that with this additional server tiesto additional company and the game encrypting exe based on HW it might end up in grave like Darkspore did ... what i deeply care are archival purposes and being able to play what i bought in long run ... try to run game with Denuvo's previous child aka Securom ... without a crack they cant even launch properly on Win 10 in most cases
And with Denuvo I even experienced problems launching the games in offline too ... so I am worried ... just not gonna spend 60 bucks (aka quite substantial part of my income ) on something that might be unplayable in couple years (for same reason i dont care about MP games)
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:13 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: |
And with Denuvo I experienced problems luanching the games in offline too ... |
But but.. Everyone has permanent net access nowadays, so what does it matter? Stop being a cheapskate! /Adam Orth
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:15 Post subject: |
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Publishers should be forced by Valve to put unprotected exe in a separate password-protected branch so that when/if Denuvo stops working Steam could release it to the public without having to wait for developers (who may not even exist at that time) to release update.
Last edited by tolanri on Fri, 27th May 2016 13:16; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:15 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | I have nothing else to say because I'm not a programmer or someone with the skills and knowledge to reverse engineer something in order to satisfy you. Just because I can't give.you want you ask for, does not mean it doesn't exist and whenever information *is* posted, you dismiss it as reddit/rin FUD. |
No information is posted. Just what some random person says on some random forum/board. Since I do have a basic knowledge and understanding, I can dismiss that, because nothing posted so far has been technically accurate at very least. Like you saying "VM oh noes". I mean, I can understand why you'd say that if you don't understand how it works, but that's not "information", that's hysteria fueled by misinformation. |
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JackQ
Non-expret in Derps lagunge
Posts: 14185
Location: Kibbutznik, Israel
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:15 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: |
and this is pretty much my main issue with that ... that with this additional server tiesto additional company and the game encrypting exe based on HW it might end up in grave like Darkspore did ... what i deeply care are archival purposes and being able to play what i bought in long run ... try to run game with Denuvo's previous child aka Securom ... without a crack they cant even launch properly on Win 10 in most cases
And with Denuvo I even experienced problems launching the games in offline too ... so I am worried ... just not gonna spend 60 bucks (aka quite substantial part of my income ) on something that might be unplayable in couple years (for same reason i dont care about MP games) |
Denuvo is still not "Allways on" though and could be plaied localy offline after activation..,so IMO we can either except eventual crack or hope that some of the comapnies will patch the game if 'D''s server will be offline in few years.
I will still probably buy to my steam accunt some 'D''s games thogh on steam sale or games like DOOM.
"Fuck Denuvo"
Your personal opinions != the rest of the forum
Last edited by JackQ on Fri, 27th May 2016 13:17; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:16 Post subject: |
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| DraySpittle wrote: | I mean you can play every game this year and buy zero of them as far as I'm concerned, just don't pretend like you're robin hood or something while you do it. You're stealing digital content. Even if there were legitimate complaints about Denuvo (there aren't) the "moral" response would be to just not touch it at all. I don't like VW's lying about emissions, but I'm not going to show my disdain for them by carjacking a 2017 model, I just won't buy from them.
I'm not saying piracy is evil or that pirates are horrible people or that I myself don't pirate games, only that you're fooling yourself if you think you pirate software because you have principles. Those two statements are literal contradictions to one another.
Just say, "I like free shit" and move on with your life. |
Pretty much this. Don't pretend you pirate games because it's the morally righteous thing to do.
Go ahead and pirate all you want just don't attempt to justify it because you don't need to justify it or feel guilty about it. If you had no intentions of buying it then you wouldn't have bought it, but if you pirated it and liked it and bought it then great.
So pirate all you want, just don't pretend you're fighting a righteous crusade against the man.
Gustave the Steel
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:17 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: | | And with Denuvo I even experienced problems launching the games in offline too ... so I am worried ... just not gonna spend 60 bucks (aka quite substantial part of my income ) on something that might be unplayable in couple years (for same reason i dont care about MP games) |
This is a legitimate claim. If you care about that, then you should not put up the money. |
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prudislav
VIP Member
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Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:20 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: |
and this is pretty much my main issue with that ... that with this additional server tiesto additional company and the game encrypting exe based on HW it might end up in grave like Darkspore did ... what i deeply care are archival purposes and being able to play what i bought in long run ... try to run game with Denuvo's previous child aka Securom ... without a crack they cant even launch properly on Win 10 in most cases
And with Denuvo I even experienced problems launching the games in offline too ... so I am worried ... just not gonna spend 60 bucks (aka quite substantial part of my income ) on something that might be unplayable in couple years (for same reason i dont care about MP games) |
The same problems are present in all modern DRMs tho: they all (Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc.) have need for server-side checks. Less frequent maybe, but the end result is the same: if in 10 years Origin servers don't exist anymore you won't be able to activate your bought game, the same way it would happen if the Denuvo servers didn't exist anymore for Denuvo-protected games.
The principle is the same. The truth is that people don't care about the "principle", because all other DRMs are easily crackable, so they just don't give a fuck since, for all intents and purposes, it's like those DRM didn't exist. If Steam was uncrackable (and we'd "all be fucking then" ) people would criticize it the same they do with Denuvo.
In the end, the only "sin" Denuvo commits compared to other protections is that it's too effective, which is why, I suspect, people are so butthurt about it.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:22 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | | In the end, the only "sin" Denuvo commits compared to other protections is that it's too effective, which is why, I suspect, people are so butthurt about it. |
Bingo |
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prudislav
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Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 13:46 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | | The same problems are present in all modern DRMs tho: they all (Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc.) have need for server-side checks. Less frequent maybe, but the end result is the same: if in 10 years Origin servers don't exist anymore you won't be able to activate your bought game, the same way it would happen if the Denuvo servers didn't exist anymore for Denuvo-protected games. |
not really i was able to play all non-D offline installed games for Steam/Origin/Uplay on my old laptop which was on the shelf for more than half a year without going online once (only DA:I and LotF were unplayable ... guess why)
As for the steam/origin/uplay i guess i am fine with it as they are platforms and has some actually cool features for me as a customer (achievs, cards, friendlists,...) ... the D is additional one with no value for me .. only some problems (like when licence "expired" while connecting second screen )
With the DRM platform there is one check and to the platform holder ... with the "D" there is platdormholder servercheck and now additional 3rd party D-check .. also i just dont trust the minds who created securom whether or not their marketing says their solution cured cancer .... there are no
The fact that i crack and backup all my legit games on these platforms is kinda my own paranoia though
| The_Leaf wrote: | | In the end, the only "sin" Denuvo commits compared to other protections is that it's too effective, which is why, I suspect, people are so butthurt about it. |
that might be part of it too.. in my case its about being able to play in future (was pain in the ass to run GTA4 legally until I gave up and cracked it) ... I personally dont need to rush to play these games (i can wait for crack or completely offline solution) but still blows my mind someone would defend so thoroughly something that adds no value to the game itself .
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 14:02 Post subject: |
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| prudislav wrote: | | The_Leaf wrote: | | The same problems are present in all modern DRMs tho: they all (Steam, Origin, Uplay, etc.) have need for server-side checks. Less frequent maybe, but the end result is the same: if in 10 years Origin servers don't exist anymore you won't be able to activate your bought game, the same way it would happen if the Denuvo servers didn't exist anymore for Denuvo-protected games. |
not really i was able to play all non-D offline installed games for Steam/Origin/Uplay on my old laptop which was on the shelf for more than half a year without going online once (only DA:I and LotF were unplayable ... guess why)
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The ONLY reason you were able to do that is because it was the SAME laptop where you authenticated the games online in the first place.
But if you use the "game preservation" argument (which is something I deeply care about as well) I think you should be thinking a bit more into the future. As soon as you change your laptop, you will have to re-authenticate the game online, so same result as Denuvo.
On the other hand, if we're just talking about "a year after the game launch"... well, in that short timespan the DRM server would surely still be online, so it doesn't really matter if you have to re-authenticate the game, does it?
These are just my two cents of course, but I think ANY online-check DRM is equally bad from a "game preservation" point of view. Steam/origin "offline mode" only works as long as you have the games installed on the same machine you activated them on, otherwise you need an online check, so in 10 years (or whatever) you'd have the same exact problems you have with denuvo, and your "preservation" is dead.
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prudislav
VIP Member
Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
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| Posted: Fri, 27th May 2016 21:29 Post subject: |
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reached the argent area but got bored and deleted it, dont see why all the praising
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:19 Post subject: |
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So Steam downloaded a 80MB patch. What's new?
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:23 Post subject: |
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https://community.bethesda.net/thread/18767
"In order to better identify the cause of some recently reported PC crashes, it would be helpful for to review your recent crash report logs. Today, we've updated DOOM on Steam to log your crashes in a designated folder on your computer. We ask that you please create a thread with your crash log in this forum section so we can investigate further."
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:23 Post subject: |
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Supposedly a crash dump logging system to make easy the reporting of crashes.
EDIT: Ninja'd
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:24 Post subject: |
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And I got excited for Vulkan/SLI patch.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65089
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:32 Post subject: |
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This, one hundred times this. 
It's been discussed quite a few times, the Humps unfortunately don't allow for simple merging (PHP 2001 A Hump Odyssey  ), otherwise I would have moved everything there. There are many D-related discussions all across the boards, and it would be nice if they could stay confined to a single place (without becoming a messy Crackstatus).
Jack has been informed as well about issue, here's hoping the message gets received at last 
And another thing, let's not forget why this place exists in the first place! 
The moment that we lose this, and we fall victim of the *insert modern pear-based politically-correct* mentality, we lose our identity. That shall not happen 
May the Buccaneerish seas flourish even in these difficult times, in a more familiar way perhaps, and may the amounts of fucks given be always zero when it comes to pseudo-morals. Screw those 
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:39 Post subject: |
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Not at the expense of factless FUD spreading. That's what being politically correct means, from my point of view, clenching your teeth but not saying anything because someone might get offended.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65089
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat, 28th May 2016 02:59 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | Not at the expense of factless FUD spreading. That's what being politically correct means, from my point of view, clenching your teeth but not saying anything because someone might get offended. |
Yup, I agree don't worry, that's a given. It goes both ways really.
Deal with it glasses are always provided for those who spread fiction and get called out on their i̶n̶c̶o̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶a̶c̶h̶e̶s bullshits. (although the ideal would be not to have any of these in the first place xD). |
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