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 Posted: Sun, 15th May 2016 17:48 Post subject: |
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I'm finding myself feeling extremely disappointed in the late game.
The early stages were compelling, with the galaxy mostly unexplored and various events popping up non-stop. However, pretty much as soon as the galaxy completely fills up with colorful blobs, the game grinds to a halt. Nothing interesting is happening and all that is left is mopping up other empires with your stacks of doom, which is just horribly frustrating, especially in a 1000-star game. Plus, the UI has so many little annoyances that managing your empire turns into a chore.
Even the Prethoryn event where the wannabe Tyranids invade turned out to be a disappointment since they spawned next to the second most powerful empire which stopped their expansion almost immediately.
You'd think that the early game exploration would get replaced with political intrigue or something, but the AI is brain-dead and the diplomacy is far too basic. Ethics and ideologies don't seem to amount to anything other than a bigger or a smaller number on the diplomacy screen since the AI never seems to act on them (or act at all, other than expanding their blob in the early stages).
I should also mention the performance. Late game at normal speed is so boring it's pretty much psychological torture so you're forced to play at fast or fastest to at least get something out of it. But guess what, it runs like shit on those speeds. Don't even get me started on large-scale battles which can sometimes result in 30-second delays.
The game feels like a framework for future DLC. The depth is just not there, a lot of systems that could make it more exciting are either missing or underdeveloped. So yeah, I'm really regretting my purchase right now. I'd ask for a refund but I doubt they'll grant it with almost 30 hours of playtime.
I guess all that's left is to hope for future improvements, but something tells me the amount of DLC required to fix the late stages of the game will cost more than the game itself.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th May 2016 18:45 Post subject: |
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@sauronich Sounds like you just described every paradox game they release...wait a year or two and then replay it with the DLC packs.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th May 2016 19:28 Post subject: |
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| hehehemann wrote: | | @sauronich Sounds like you just described every paradox game they release...wait a year or two and then replay it with the DLC packs. |
When I was reading up on this game and Paradox in general, I got the impression that their DLC policy for this would be about adding more depth to an already good game. But it seems that instead it'll be about finishing something that was obviously released in an incomplete state. The contrast between the early and late stages is so great that it feels like they just gave up in the middle of development and released it as is.
Lesson learned I guess. At least it wasn't as expensive as some of the AAA crap lately. We'll see what the game looks like in a year.
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| Posted: Sun, 15th May 2016 20:14 Post subject: |
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I have the same impression: ecstatic during early game, once I got to mid/lategame I got bored and quit (AI never does anything in my games and there isn't much to do). Then again, I guess EU4 might have also been quite dull at release, and after a few DLCs this is gonna be a great game.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun, 15th May 2016 20:29 Post subject: |
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Most of the paradox games are 30/50h games for me until some DLC and patches turn them into hundreds of hour games. 
Problem is that I usually forget that at a new release of them xD
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| Posted: Mon, 16th May 2016 01:42 Post subject: |
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Tachyon Beam utterly destroys everything. If you have those, it is only a matter of how many of those you can fit into your fleet, nothing else matter in my opinion. The tech alone might be worth it to declare war on a Fallen Empire and lose just to reverse it asap.
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zmed
Posts: 9234
Location: Orbanistan
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| Posted: Mon, 16th May 2016 17:26 Post subject: |
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-33-the-maiden-voyage.932668/&utm_source=steam_community&utm_medium=community&utm_content=devdiary&utm_campaign=stellaris_devdiary_20160516
| Quote: | Hi everyone!
Well folks, here we are again, one week later… The development team has mostly weathered the release jitters and nerves are starting to calm down. The ship we worked so hard on for the last three years has been successfully launched and is currently on its maiden voyage. The crew seems mostly happy but some of the inspectors have raised concerns about mid-ship structural issues. As chief architect, I am not entirely surprised, but the reports will allow us to commence upgrades as soon as HMS Stellaris returns from its round-trip to Alpha Centauri. Alright, enough with the metaphor, let’s talk about our future plans for Stellaris!
First off, for those of you who are unfamiliar with our post-release policies, we will release a lot of expansions over the coming years. Each expansion will be accompanied by a major update (for Stellaris, these free updates will be named after famous science fiction authors) containing a whole bunch of completely free upgrades and improvements to the game in addition to regular bug fixes. As long as enough players keep buying paid content for the game, we promise to keep improving the game for everyone, almost like an MMO.
Now, before we begin the expansion cycle in earnest, we will spend the rest of May and June only focusing on bug fixes and free upgrades to the game. We carefully listen to all your feedback, which has already made us alter our priorities a bit. As a veteran designer of our complex historical games, I was anticipating a fair amount of criticism regarding the mid-game in Stellaris compared to that of our historical games, but I was more concerned with the depth of the economy than the relative lack of diplomatic options, for example. I also find much of the feedback on the Sector system interesting; the GUI and AI concerns will receive the highest priority. One area I was not at all surprised to get flak for is the lack of mid-game scripted content, however. We simply took too long getting all the early and late game stuff in, and neglected a whole category of events called “colony events”, which were supposed to be the bread and butter of the mid-game for the Science Ships.
We’ve been digesting and discussing your feedback and how to best go about improving the mid-game to make it more dynamic, both in the short and long run. Let’s start with our short term plans. When the game was released, we had already proceeded to fix a lot of issues. Together with some other pressing issues that have been reported, the plan is to release the 1.1 update - “Clarke” - near the end of May. We will try to cram as much as we can into this update, but the more fundamental stuff will have to wait until the next update (“Asimov”), which is scheduled for the end of June. The “Clarke” patch will mainly be a bug fix and GUI improvement update. Here are some of the highlights:
"CLARKE" HIGHLIGHTS
Fixes to the Ethic Divergence and Convergence issues. Currently, Pops tend to get more and more neutral (they lose Ethics, but rarely gain new ones.)
The End of Combat Summary. This screen looks bad and also doesn’t tell you what you need to know in order to revise your ship designs, etc.
Sector Management GUI: There are many issues with this, and we will try to get most of them fixed.
Diplomacy GUI issues. This includes the Diplomatic Pop-Ups when other empires contact you, but also more and better looking Notifications, and more informative tooltips on wars, etc.
AI improvements: Notably the Sector AI, but also plenty of other things. This kind of work is never "finished"...
Myriads of bug fixes and smaller GUI improvements.
Late game crises bugs. There were some nasty bugs in there, blocking certain subplots and various surprising developments.
EDIT: Remaining Performance Issues. We know about them; they might even be hotfixed before Clarke.
EDIT: Corvettes are too good.
New Diplomatic Notification. This is a mock-up, not an actual screenshot!
New Fleet Combat Summary. This is a mock-up, not an actual screenshot!
After that, we’re moving on to the “Asimov” update, and this is when we can start making some major gameplay improvements to especially the mid-game. As you might have guessed, we plan to add some new diplomatic actions and treaties. Another thing that struck me during our discussions is that the normal lack of access to the space of other empires makes the game feel more constricted than intended. It limits your options since you can’t really interact much with the galaxy beyond the borders of your empire, and you only tend to concern yourself with your direct neighbors. This is bad for your Science Ships too, of course, since they might not be able to finish some of the grander “quests”. Compare the situation with Europa Universalis, where you usually have access to the oceans and can thus reach most of the world, or Crusader Kings, where you can even move through neutral territory with your armies. We also intend to add as much mid-game scripted content as we can. Thus, this is currently the plan for “Asimov”, but it’s not set in stone yet, so please bear with us if something gets pushed or altered:
"ASIMOV" HIGHLIGHTS (NOT SET IN STONE!)
Border Access Revision: Borders are now open to your ships by default, although empires can choose to Close their borders for another empire (lowering your relations, of course.)
Tributaries: New diplomatic status and corresponding war goals.
Joint Declarations of War: You can ask other empires to join you for a temporary alliance in a war against a specific target.
Defensive Pacts.
Harder to form and maintain proper Alliances.
More war goals: Humiliate, Open Borders, Make Tributary, etc.
Emancipation Faction. We had to cut this one at the last minute. Needs redesign.
Diplomatic Map Mode. Much requested!
Diplomatic Incidents: This is a whole class of new scripted events that causes more interaction with the other empires.
Past “Asimov”, I can’t give you any kind of specifics yet, but I am currently leaning towards honing in on the following general areas for the “Heinlein” update (these are not promises!):
CURRENT "HEINLEIN" INTENTIONS
Sector and Faction Politics: We are working on a design for this. I always wanted to make Factions more closely tied to Sectors, for example...
Federation and Alliance Politics: As a player, you need more ways of interacting with the other members, push your will through, and get elected, etc.
Giving Directions to Allies and Subject States.
Strategic Resource Overhaul: You should need these and search for them far and wide. They should be extremely important.
Battleship Class Weapons. Some Battleship front sections will be repurposed for an XL size weapon slot. There are currently four ship sizes but only three sizes to weapons, creating an imbalance. Also, Battleships should have fewer small weapon slots and have to rely on screens of smaller ships.
Fleet Combat Mechanics: Formations and/or more complex ship behavior is needed.
Mid-game scripted content: Guarded “treasures”, mid-game crises, colony events, etc.
Living Solar Systems: Little civilian ships moving around, etc.
Again, remember that we need to be somewhat flexible when things don't work out or when something else takes priority, so please take these later plans with a large grain of salt. As always, we also listen keenly to your feedback, so keep it coming!
Now, I am sure you are full of questions about the details, but hold your horses; it will all be explained in the coming dev diaries! |
Got to love these guys. Yeah. The game is far from perfect. But if there is a single dev studio that will try their hardest to make it perfect, it's Paradox.
They seem to have canned a lot of mid-game events relating to colonies, but there are a couple that made it in (like the underground civilization I mentioned a while back).
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dethy
Posts: 3118
Location: Conclave of Shadows
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| Posted: Mon, 16th May 2016 21:27 Post subject: |
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A lot of those fixes should have been there at release. Early game is really good, but the more you play, the more bugs and errors you find. The end game crisis bugs is a potential game breaker and the sector management system is one of the worst AI governance systems i have experienced. The UI also seems very unfinished. I'm sure they will correct most if not all of the issues and release some fun expansions in the future, I just wish they would have corrected some of worst issues before release.
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| Posted: Mon, 16th May 2016 22:58 Post subject: |
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Great, looking forward to the real release in 4 months.
ASRock B450 Pro4 || Ryzen 7 3700X || Patriot Viper 16Gb DDR4-3600 || ASUS GeForce RTX 3080 TUF GAMING || XPG GAMMIX S11 Pro 1Tb || Xiaomi Mi Surface Display 34" (3440x1440)
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| Posted: Mon, 16th May 2016 23:20 Post subject: |
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The game will be the best space 4x game ever in 1-2 years from now.
At current state it's not worth more then 1 playthrough though.
Some feature are missing at release that should be in, espionage, trading. Also diplomacy is prety basic. I also miss the ledger seen in other parodox game to get some info about other empires. Almost feels like some of the features are left out on purpose so it can be added as dlc.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2016 01:13 Post subject: |
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Could be. It could also be another Sengoku or Rome. Even Paradox has its share of mishaps. Right now they have a steep ladder to climb to catch Endless Space 1, Distant Worlds: Universe and even Polaris Sector, another fairly recent realtime 4x that got overlooked. It's got vastly superior campaign AI (battle AI is a bit dull), better performance, and better active realtime combat going for it. But also even worse UI as Stellaris, few species, and a steep learning curve.
Here's bit favourable review that I mostly agree with:
https://explorminate.net/2016/03/22/polaris-sector-review/
What will throne or ruin Stellaris is still AI development. They seriously need to put more into it as it's not a fixed start game where player can cap himself by playing weaker starts. I really wonder how one man teams of Polaris Sector and Distant Worlds manage a lot better AI's. Paradox efforts often look half hearted, It's as if they develop a game for a while, and then halfway through give it to AI guys to make something out of it.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2016 07:28 Post subject: |
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I somewhat enjoyed my time with it overall, but it's clearly not a serious contender for best game in this genre. To me, that title still belongs to MoO2 without any real competition - and we're talking about a game from 1996.
This COULD challenge it in a few years - when it's actually finished and fleshed out, but I kinda doubt it.
I'm just not a big fan of Paradox game design - where everything seems to be about changing some negative number into a positive number. Pretty much all the goodies in their games give you a little "+10" instead of something tangible that you can look at and recognise as something really nice. All the technology is just a bunch of extremely basic images with a few "+x" to go along with them.
All they needed to do was look at MoO2 and see that for each tech, you need a unique set of assets to go along with it - to make it feel worthwhile and "real".
Beyond that, way too much time is passing without interesting events or choices. Little samey text pop-ups do little to change that. It's just waiting, waiting and more waiting.
Still, they have a lot of good ideas in this game - and I really like the aesthetic too.
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| Posted: Tue, 17th May 2016 08:25 Post subject: |
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If they can incorporate Sword of the Stars 2's weapon tech tree, that would be great. Or I guess I can just mod it myself, doesn't seem too hard.
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2016 12:57 Post subject: |
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small 5mb patch today
| Lutzifer wrote: | | and yes, mine is only average |
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Badrien
Posts: 2118
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2016 13:26 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | - Fixed Planet capital modifier being spammed.
- Fixed CTD caused by ground combat side containing invalid armies.
- Fixed issue with disabling everything in Outliner would render it unusable.
- Fixed issue with orbital bombardment of swarm invaders.
- Removed shortcut from "help" button to avoid colliding with fleet "hold" shortcut.
- Performance optimizations caused by huge amounts of resource stations.
- Ship designer: List of designs is sorted according to ship sizes.
- Transport ships are now designable.
Please report any issues in the bug reports sub-forum[forum.paradoxplaza.com] and make sure to specify that you are running with 1.0.3.
Both the 1.1 (CLARKE) and 1.2 (ASIMOV) updates are progressing according to schedule. Our intention is to release 1.1 as a beta patch late next week. |
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dethy
Posts: 3118
Location: Conclave of Shadows
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| Posted: Wed, 18th May 2016 14:57 Post subject: |
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| fawe4 wrote: | Could be. It could also be another Sengoku or Rome. Even Paradox has its share of mishaps. Right now they have a steep ladder to climb to catch Endless Space 1, Distant Worlds: Universe and even Polaris Sector, another fairly recent realtime 4x that got overlooked. It's got vastly superior campaign AI (battle AI is a bit dull), better performance, and better active realtime combat going for it. But also even worse UI as Stellaris, few species, and a steep learning curve.
Here's bit favourable review that I mostly agree with:
https://explorminate.net/2016/03/22/polaris-sector-review/
What will throne or ruin Stellaris is still AI development. They seriously need to put more into it as it's not a fixed start game where player can cap himself by playing weaker starts. I really wonder how one man teams of Polaris Sector and Distant Worlds manage a lot better AI's. Paradox efforts often look half hearted, It's as if they develop a game for a while, and then halfway through give it to AI guys to make something out of it. |
Am I one of the few folks that actually liked their Rome game?
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Derpsole: Nintendo Switch, Derpstation 5 Pro
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| Posted: Thu, 19th May 2016 22:08 Post subject: |
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I loved rome and I'm still waiting for a sequel!
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mtj
Posts: 2315
Location: Austria / Finland
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| Posted: Fri, 20th May 2016 09:52 Post subject: |
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Same here, I played rome to death.
Sengoku however was utter crap.
But that they acknowledged even themselves. It was just a game between the main releases.
Intel Core I-9 9900K @ stock, ASUS Z 390A MoBo, 32GB 3.6GHz, Zotac 3090 | BeQuiet 1000W PSU, Be Quiet Dark Base Pro 900 case, 49" Samsung G9
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 20th May 2016 13:37 Post subject: |
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Aren't you embellishing it a tiny bit? I liked/enjoyed Rome and even Sengoku but words like: love... It sure wasn't up to par with their main games.
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| Posted: Mon, 23rd May 2016 22:10 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 24th May 2016 17:12 Post subject: |
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Well, if this is what they're worried about in a game where you can enslave and purge entire civilizations, this game has no chance in hell of ever becoming the game it should be.
| Quote: | Paradox pulls "discriminatory" Stellaris mod that made all humans white
Investigating another which separates humans by ethnicity. |
Guess forced diversity trumps everything.
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