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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 14:12 Post subject: |
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Hmm, the ugly mug of mads would fit well!
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konkol84
Posts: 3679
Location: Po(o)land
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 15:38 Post subject: |
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Didn't read the whole thread because I am still playing Witcher 2, well I started today. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, what if they downgraded the gfx because they want to do the same shit like "From Software / Bandai" ? ...re-release the game after a couple months with better graphics for more money.
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JBeckman
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Posts: 34997
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 15:55 Post subject: |
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Unlikely, though a "Enhanced Edition" re-release may follow in a year or two bundling the free DLC and expansion pass content along with other tweaks, or maybe this time they'll settle for just calling it the GOTY edition.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7573
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 16:36 Post subject: |
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7573
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 16:44 Post subject: |
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Jesus Christ, man. I know the difference between a CGI trailer, and never expect the actual game to look like that. But those videos were marketed as in-game, with actual gameplay. We're not talking about 5 minute footage either. It's very clear the game was in an advanced stage already, but just needed additional polishing and bugfixes.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 16:47 Post subject: |
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I've refrained from jumping on the "downgrade" or "no downgrade" bandwagon, since (as I've said before) I don't consider official PR material reliable, and in fact I expect it to be engineered to look better than the actual thing, so I think using it as a baseline for comparison is a useless endeavor.
I mean, when you see a McDonald ad, do you believe their burgers to be as big and delicious as they look in the ad? I assume not, unless you're 4.
When you see an ad for a mobile phone, do you believe the screen to be as defined and bright and the UI as smooth and fast as it looks in the publicity? Again, I assume not.
I don't understand why you think it'll be different with a game. Official trailers/screens are ADVERTISING MATERIAL. And like EVERY publicity tool, they're unreliable.
That's why I prefer to judge a game in "absolute" terms, i.e.: does it look good when it finally comes out or not (regardless of how it looked in early teasers/trailers/screens)? And does it run decently considering the requirements it has?
If you judge a game on how it compares to early promotional material released years before the game actually comes out, you ARE going to be disappointed. Because in the first place, EVERY promotional trailer/screen is "tinkered with" to look good, and secondly because the engine and assets are not final.
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Morphineus
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Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 16:58 Post subject: |
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So changing that tune I guess. What about those Italian journos saying: no downgrade? 
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7573
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:04 Post subject: |
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Again, I'm not talking about screens/trailers. But actual in-game footage, like the 35 minute demo (which already suffered from downgrading, I remember the outrage clearly, but not nearly as much as the current, final (  ) version)
I said it before, if I can run this game on ultra settings at 60 FPS on my 2 year old Alienware, I'm gonna be disappointed. Ultra settings = for ultra pc's. When all pc's can run the game on ultra, it shouldn't be called 'ultra' but 'normal'.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:06 Post subject: |
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Anyone still care about the mechanics, quests, openworld, story.. no??? no one ?
I sure as fuck won't run the game in ultra, heck... if I make it to medium I'll be happy. And here the biggest problem is if the grass catches fire, walls have cracks etc. Next thing you know - "hurrrrrduurrr geraltz pubic hear phisix suxxxorzzzz 1/10 amarite guise?". Ryse the son of rome had amazing gfx but was boring as fuck.
And no way is this even in the league of Watch_dogs downgrade. WD looked worse than Modern Warfare 2. This one still looks amazing, but I and many other people will not play it at max details with SSAA and tasselation.
The graphics don't keep me coming back for more, it's the gameplay.
7800x3D, 32GB DDR5 6000MHz, RTX 5070
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:11 Post subject: |
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| sunseeker wrote: | | Anyone still care about the mechanics, quests, openworld, story.. no??? no one ? |
Oh look, he's trying to communicate! How cute!
Yes, we all care about mechanics, quests, open world and story. They've been discussed quite extensively - right now the biggest conversation is about the visuals precisely because, like Ubi and W_D, CDPR were showing off full gameplay footage -- not "teaser" or "CGI", but as Il_Padrino said; extensively gameplay footage, that now simply doesn't match what's on offer for the final build. This is big whether you think so or not. It was unacceptable in Watch_Dogs and Aliens:CM, yet apparently some of us are supposed to shut up and "talk about teh gaemplay lolz" in this?
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harry_theone
Posts: 11231
Location: The Land of Thread Reports
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:25 Post subject: |
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| Il_Padrino wrote: | | It's very clear the game was in an advanced stage already, but just needed additional polishing and bugfixes. |
But those were marketing vids. Very likely cranked up graphics on beastly hardware, in doctored up best case scenario sessions.
You cannot base your expectations on that. Well, you can, as you obviously did, but you end up with a disappointment.
That is all I am saying. The_Leaf summed it up well. Advertising is the art of bullshitting, you can't do a deep analysis of 2 week to release content vs promo vids from a year ago, and not notice differences. This is what people are doing. comparing scenes from different builds. Of course the bullshit gets lesser closer to release.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:30 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Morphineus wrote: | | So changing that tune I guess. |
You noticed that too, huh?  Funny how quickly it's gone from being "NO DOWNGRADE!" to "If you believe early promotional material then you're an idiot, no game looks like that!" |
Sorry, but I have to pick you up on a couple of points here:
1) first of all, we were talking about console vs pc differences, not about the downgrade, so I don't know how that is relevant
2) I was merely quoting what I read in an article, I wasn't expressing judgement. Also, that was an editorial from someone that had played the game, not a pr trailer / screen from the developer, so again I don't see how it compares with the point I was making above
3) I had already expressed my point about the matter way before I cited that article, so your accusation of "changing the tune" is out of place as well. As I said back in March :
| Quote: | | or myself, I don't really give a fuck about playing the frame-by-frame compare-and-contrast game. I'll judge the game on how it looks and runs when it comes out. My guess? It'll run very poorly on my mobile-class peasant gpu, but that's my problem, not the game's. The question is: will it look great? And will the requirements be consistent with how it looks?? If so, I won't feel "betrayed". Otherwise, I will. |
Please refrain from pitting words in other people mouths, I know it makes you feel smug and clever but it's annoying.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:35 Post subject: |
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| sunseeker wrote: | Anyone still care about the mechanics, quests, openworld, story.. no??? no one ?
I sure as fuck won't run the game in ultra, heck... if I make it to medium I'll be happy. And here the biggest problem is if the grass catches fire, walls have cracks etc. Next thing you know - "hurrrrrduurrr geraltz pubic hear phisix suxxxorzzzz 1/10 amarite guise?". Ryse the son of rome had amazing gfx but was boring as fuck.
And no way is this even in the league of Watch_dogs downgrade. WD looked worse than Modern Warfare 2. This one still looks amazing, but I and many other people will not play it at max details with SSAA and tasselation.
The graphics don't keep me coming back for more, it's the gameplay. |
hello and welcome. this forum goes into full retard mode before every big game drops, you'll get used to it  just come back in a month after game is out and this thread will look completely different, you'll see genuine player feedback and mini reviews and opinions.
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:35 Post subject: |
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Bullshit, all you have done in this thread so far is express "judgement" on others. As for putting words in people's mouths? Nope. I've done no such thing, I'm commenting on the very real statements many of you are making and the tunes you keep changing - I didn't call out you in particular, but all of you.. all the ones that have whined at the "whiners" over the downgrade. Besides, why are you specifically quoting and targeting me? Morphy said you changed your tune, I just agreed, yet now you're whining at me over it
| Drowning_witch wrote: | But those were marketing vids. Very likely cranked up graphics on beastly hardware, in doctored up best case scenario sessions.
You cannot base your expectations on that. Well, you can, as you obviously did, but you end up with a disappointment. |
Why are we allowing that to happen? Why are we not only allowing it, but why are some of you DEFENDING it and CRITICISING those that try to speak up about it? How is that fair? Yes, let's defend the liars and frauds, and let's whine at the consumers.
Great stuff guys.
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vurt
Posts: 13862
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:44 Post subject: |
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| Drowning_witch wrote: | | Il_Padrino wrote: | | It's very clear the game was in an advanced stage already, but just needed additional polishing and bugfixes. |
But those were marketing vids. Very likely cranked up graphics on beastly hardware, in doctored up best case scenario sessions.
You cannot base your expectations on that. Well, you can, as you obviously did, but you end up with a disappointment. |
This case is kind of different i would say, CDP is a company that had a lot of trust from their fans, not really a company you expect to pull cheap marketing tricks. Check the "PR screens" and videos of Skyrim, you'll see that they kept it all intact, no bullshit... so its not true that every developer does this shit, it's not as common as you might think.
CDP also said that the game would in fact look much better than in the old videos, when the new renderer was in place + they claim no downgrade. That's a huge difference..
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:46 Post subject: |
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edit: yep agreed vurt.
| vurt wrote: |
This case is kind of different i would say, CDP is a company that had a lot of trust from their fans, not really a company you expect to pull cheap marketing tricks. Check the "PR screens" and videos of Skyrim, you'll see that they kept it all intact, no bullshit... so its not true that every developer does this shit, it's not as common as you might think.
CDP also said that the game would in fact look much better than in the old videos, when the new renderer was in place + they claim no downgrade. That's a huge difference.. |
I think the main reason for the strong feelings here is that poeple expected CDPR to be different than the big boys, but they've succumbed to many of the same pitfalls.
There is no doubt the downgrade happend, but how one takes it depends on their expectations of the company making the game.
The real question that we might never get an answer to is, have they purposefully shown graphics they knew won't be optimized for release, or they honestly thought they would be able to pull it off, but failed.
Last edited by Drowning_witch on Thu, 7th May 2015 17:48; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 17:57 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: |
| Drowning_witch wrote: | | I think the main reason for the strong feelings here is that poeple expected CDPR to be different than the big boys, but they've succumbed to many of the same pitfalls. |
Yup, I can't speak for anyone else but I certainly expected them to be different. Too much of their "partner" is showing through in their actions lately though. |
Sadly, this seems to be the standard thing when devs become AAA. Companies rely on consumer goodwill when smaller, like CDPR with The Witcher 1 and 2, but once they have a secure audience they can more or less do what they want without fear.
I'll still enjoy the hell out of TW3, but I am disappointed with CD Projekt. |
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7573
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 18:00 Post subject: |
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| Drowning_witch wrote: |
But those were marketing vids. Very likely cranked up graphics on beastly hardware, in doctored up best case scenario sessions.
You cannot base your expectations on that. Well, you can, as you obviously did, but you end up with a disappointment.
That is all I am saying. The_Leaf summed it up well. Advertising is the art of bullshitting, you can't do a deep analysis of 2 week to release content vs promo vids from a year ago, and not notice differences. This is what people are doing. comparing scenes from different builds. Of course the bullshit gets lesser closer to release. |
False advertising is actually a criminal offense in many countries.
And I don't care if you need beastly hardware to have beastly graphics, I find that very logical.
There must have been a door there in the wall, when I came in.
Truly gone fishing.
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Il_Padrino
Posts: 7573
Location: Greece by the North Sea
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 18:17 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 7th May 2015 18:20 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Bullshit, all you have done in this thread so far is express "judgement" on others. As for putting words in people's mouths? Nope. I've done no such thing, I'm commenting on the very real statements many of you are making and the tunes you keep changing - I didn't call out you in particular, but all of you.. all the ones that have whined at the "whiners" over the downgrade. Besides, why are you specifically quoting and targeting me? Morphy said you changed your tune, I just agreed, yet now you're whining at me over it
| Drowning_witch wrote: | But those were marketing vids. Very likely cranked up graphics on beastly hardware, in doctored up best case scenario sessions.
You cannot base your expectations on that. Well, you can, as you obviously did, but you end up with a disappointment. |
Why are we allowing that to happen? Why are we not only allowing it, but why are some of you DEFENDING it and CRITICISING those that try to speak up about it? How is that fair? Yes, let's defend the liars and frauds, and let's whine at the consumers.
Great stuff guys. |
I have to stress again (and again) I have no beef against you or anyone else here, I quoted you merely for convenience since you were quoting the original Morphineus, so got both of you in one click, no plot or conspiracy, just lazyness
If you're just making a "general point" don't use my words ("If you believe early promotional material etc.") and match them with others to make it seems I "changed my tune". My points at the time were mainly concerned with the massive amount of rage that this game in particular seemed to generate, in comparison with others that employed much more sleazy money-grabbing tactics and yet received way less flak. Also we were talking about console vs pc looks specifically there, not about the general "downgrade".
As for the second part of your post (I know you were quoting Drowning_Witch, but I might as well add my 2 cents): if you re-read the post I made above you'll notice that mine is simply a STATEMENT OF FACT (i.e.: this is how it goes in the world of marketing) as opposed to a statement in SUPPORT of such practices. There's a huge difference. In fact, I agree with you that it would be better if it wasn't this way. But since it DOES work this way, I was merely pointing out that you guys would be less disappointed (in general) if you took early PR material with a MASSIVE grain of salt in the first place.
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