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 Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:02 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Did I say I deserve the expansion for free? Several of us have, consistently, pointed out our grievances with what's going on only to have people like YOU shoot us down, insult us with your petty little insults, and then whine about the thread. Every single negative aspect we have raised, you've insulted us over.
"No offence" right?
We've seen console favouritism. You shoot it down.
We've seen *massive* downgraded visuals. You shoot it down.
We've seen ludicrous system requirements that the developers claim are targeting a ludicrous framerate. You shoot it down.
We've seen exclusive content favouring another platform. You shoot it down.
We've seen PRE-RELEASE announcements and store pages for SEASON PASSES. You shoot it down.
I'm sorry, am I missing something? Aside from your "assumptions"? Certainly not missing those, you're making a lot of them whilst simultaneously shooting down anyone for having a dissenting opinion. So what are allowed to do? Cheer and applaud every decision we don't like just because you do like it?
No. Fuck you, ain't happening. *cough* No offence. |
But I'm not refuting any of the points you're making!! What I'm saying is: all those are commonplace in today's game industry, in fact they've been commonplace FOR THE LAST 8 YEARS!!!
My question is simply: WHY all this heat for a title that is actually one of the "lesser offenders" in this regards? (meaning that at least it doesn't do paid dlc, drm, delayed pc release date, etc.)
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:05 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | | My question is simply: WHY all this heat for a title that is actually one of the "lesser offenders" in this regards? (meaning that at least it doesn't do paid dlc, drm, delayed pc release date, etc.) |
Because we expected better from a company that claims to not do the shitty things it is now doing - and, worse, to not have its fanboys slam us for complaining over it. Just because Shitty Company A does Shitty Things© doesn't mean we should accept it from once-PC-centric companies that ask us to have faith in them for not doing the shitty things they are now doing anyhow.
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prudislav
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Posts: 29148
Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:08 Post subject: |
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| 4treyu wrote: | | prudislav wrote: | honestly cant understand the hatewagon
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| DCB wrote: | | Lol, dunno why you lot are bitching. |
You two must be new here  |
nope i got used to usual trolls/haters and pessimists , but somehow I noticed that change of tone to quite darker one in posts by some regulars , who I valued a lot for their opinions and arguments.
But i guess the problem isn't change of the hump or humpers but maybe change in me:
i just went though a lot of horrible shit IRL in recent years and I finally put my life on the right track and with that comes the sudden positive attitude 
| sabin1981 wrote: | | prudislav wrote: | this is just way overblown drama  |
Maybe, but I'm no less entitled to air my grievances than you and Leaf are allowed to air your praises. Announcing, and SELLING, a season "pass" for extra content before the game is even out is disgusting .. it's a 2K/EA/Ubisoft trick, not something you'd expect from a PC darling like CDPR. Anyone else pulling this gets reamed on here, but not CDPR. Why? |
well i am not praising anything , i guess i am only not seeing that much evil in it like you do ... with huge expectations usually comes huge disappointment
And from what i saw/read the biggest offence in this announcement is that they announced it prior to game's release, but in the end they are still consistent in what they said on DLC/expansion regard.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:21 Post subject: |
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I'm not saying the company is evil, I'm saying they're greedy and showing it more and more. Just because other companies are greedy, doesn't mean we should accept it as inevitable when this one turns the same way. That's all. Yet whenever I, or anyone else, has raised issue with any part of it... we're TOLD to think otherwise and TOLD to stop complaining and TOLD that it's acceptable now.
That ain't right, Pru.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:22 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:25 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | The_Leaf wrote: | | My question is simply: WHY all this heat for a title that is actually one of the "lesser offenders" in this regards? (meaning that at least it doesn't do paid dlc, drm, delayed pc release date, etc.) |
Because we expected better from a company that claims to not do the shitty things it is now doing - and, worse, to not have its fanboys slam us for complaining over it. Just because Shitty Company A does Shitty Things© doesn't mean we should accept it from once-PC-centric companies that ask us to have faith in them for not doing the shitty things they are now doing anyhow. |
To be honest, I'm not a CDPR fanboy and I'm not here to "defend" anyone.
In fact, I've voiced my doubts about this game several times in this thread, mainly concerned about the fact that it's going open-world, which I'm quite sure will entail loads of filler content and running around endlessly from point A to point B, which I absolutely despise.
But from your comment I think I was right on the lats page, and we're getting to the bottom of this: people are upset about this game in particular because CDPR were the "last champions" of PC-oriented AAA game development and now they're gradually "caving in" to industry practices.
Basically it's not a matter of "they're doing it", it's a matter of "they were the last one that were NOT doing it". Plus, you pre-ordered it, which obviously makes you angrier because you are now supporting a company that employs practices you don't agree with. I can understand that, and have no problems with it.
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:29 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | | But from your comment I think I was right on the lats page, and we're getting to the bottom of this: people are upset about this game in particular because CDPR were the "last champions" of PC-oriented AAA game development and now they're gradually "caving in" to industry practices. |
Come on, getting to the bottom of it? Wasn't this already obvious to you? That's all we've been saying from the start My whole complaint has *always* been about how CDPR get a free pass for doing the horrible shit now that every other company gets reamed over. Gearbox downgrades A:CM and get demolished, CDPR downgrades TW3 and people defend it and claim there's no evidence. It's just... eghhhhhhh, whyyyyy?
| Quote: | | Plus, you pre-ordered it, which obviously makes you angrier because you are now supporting a company that employs practices you don't agree with. I can understand that, and have no problems with it. |
That's how quite a few of us feel, that now it's supporting a company we used to low but has decided to shift their business practices in a direction we don't like -- and when we complain, we're told to shut up and accept it. It's no longer a benefit to PC gamers, with all the talk of parity, the downgrades, the 30fps targets and the backroom deals with their "partners" and now with the new plague of pre-release DLC sales. Granted they call them "expansions" instead and try to spin it as a good thing but egh, I'm not seeing it. €60 for the game, €25 for the expansion "pass" 6 and 12 months prior to release.. I mean, come on 
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 22:46 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | Come on, getting to the bottom of it? Wasn't this already obvious to you? That's all we've been saying from the start
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That's the point, maybe I'm too cynical, but I just don't understand how someone in 2015 can possibly believe a game as complex, as vast and as technically advanced (let's be honest, it still looks better than any AAA game on the market, despite the screams of "downgrade" and "ps3 graphics") as this could possibly be a PC-focused "AAA production values but indie politics" endeavor.
It's just not cost effective in this day and age, games like this are simply too expensive to target the smallest of the platforms in terms of sales.
What I mean is these things were not a "surprise" for me, I expected it. I guess I'm just surprised they came as a surprise to a lot of people here, on a forum that's usually very cynical and ready to assume the worst to begin with.
Also, people have complained pretty much about everything, and I stand by several of the points I made in the previous pages. For example: there were plenty of people saying it will look IDENTICAL on all the three platforms. I still think that's ludicrous, since resolution, AA and advanced filters make a lot of difference. Or the fact that I find comparing screens from different locations, angles and time of day a pointless exercise. But let's not go into that again, or we'll be here all night
Peace! (I hope...)
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prudislav
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Location: The land of beer and porn
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 23:07 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | I'm not saying the company is evil, I'm saying they're greedy and showing it more and more. Just because other companies are greedy, doesn't mean we should accept it as inevitable when this one turns the same way. That's all. Yet whenever I, or anyone else, has raised issue with any part of it... we're TOLD to think otherwise and TOLD to stop complaining and TOLD that it's acceptable now.
That ain't right, Pru. |
i just dont see that greed either , i guess as a big fan of the books I care more about the story being truth to the bugs , aswell as gameplay and world design and the other stuff is irrelevant as long i can run it at all
about your points:
console favouritism -> i dont really see that , marketing-wise they try to treat each platforms similar, but on twitter i see them more towards PC (maybe they favour Xbone more than S4 thx to MS money)
downgrade -> obviously not the same as original announcement when PS4/XB specs were unknown - but other than that nothing so bad to possibly badly influence my enjoyment - but cant judge properly before release
ludicrous system requirements - as person with PC round minimum , cant really judge before release especially when specs are release before the announced "optimalization delay"
exclusive content favouring another platform -> for me just bunch of worthless RL cards (most likely payed by MS), nothing in-game so no value for me especially since my brother died
SEASON PASSES - yeah they should wait with announcement , but as the content goes I am kinda excited after all these horrible SeasonPasses we are getting for other games - I have no problem to pay for season pass with 2 big expansions
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 23:18 Post subject: |
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PC smallest of the platforms?
No. Just no. PC is the largest platform, but it's also the most fragmented - which is hard for marketers, because it's not so easy as: guyzzz, chekk it out, brah! Next dudebro game, 6 friggin hours, only 70 bux, you in, brah?
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Neon
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 23:18 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | | For example: there were plenty of people saying it will look IDENTICAL on all the three platforms. I still think that's ludicrous, since resolution, AA and advanced filters make a lot of difference. |
It was not "plenty of people", but CDP's managing director, who you'd think have more knowledge about the quality of the game than any of us.
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prudislav
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 23:24 Post subject: |
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@Neon: I don't think such high person in company as managing director is the person to have the most knowledge about the game - I would say about the company but not about the game itself
As in my company managing director do know only the essential to make strategic decisions about the company not every detail of every project, but yeah i dont really know anything about organization structure in CDP
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| Posted: Tue, 7th Apr 2015 23:37 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: |
It was not "plenty of people", but CDP's managing director, who you'd think have more knowledge about the quality of the game than any of us. |
No, I think he has knowledge about how to make PR statements, and like all "salesmen" he says what it takes to appease as many people as he can and sell his product.
We're opening the can of worms again, which I didn't want to do, but to reiterate: if you think that a game running at 900p with no AA will look "identical" to the same game running @1440p /4k with AA, then ok, whatever. (Because one thingwe can agree on at least is that on PC you'll be able to change resolution and filters, don't we?? Or do you seriously believe that the "look identical" statement means that it'll be locked at max 1080p/30fps with no AA options???)
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 00:08 Post subject: |
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I think the "decline" is inevitable with AAA companies. I honestly can't think of a single company which hasn't slowly given in to negative practices after success.
Larian is a good example of one that is still free of such practices, but that might change if their next game is a big success.
Edit: InXile have largely avoided this, but then they aren't really AAA yet.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 00:08 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | jNo, they're talking about "identical assets" |
I had already pointed that out myself many pages ago (and was mocked for it).
Back then there werepeople saying it would look identical, (mis)quoting the manager guy and saying "there, it would be identical on PC and consoles, they did it on purpose to appease the peasants" (I was the one that brought up the "identical assets" clarification in fact, iirc).
The matter is simple: either resolution and filters make a difference in "how a game looks" for you or not. Personally I think texture and model quality is more important, but I still wouldn't say a game @ 900p/noAA looks "identical" to the same game at 1080p+/AA.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 00:11 Post subject: |
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| The_Leaf wrote: | | Personally I think texture and model quality is more important, but I still wouldn't say a game @ 900p/noAA looks "identical" to the same game at 1080p+/AA. |
Yet what happens when that texture and model quality is the same across all platforms, as CDPR have mentioned parity a few times? They said those things will be the same regardless of platform.. so running 1080p with MSAA/SSAA is still going to have the same assets, the same 900p textures and the same lower poly models, as the console versions. No?
That's the point.
Dead or Alive 5 runs at 4K on PC, with 4xSSAA, yet it still has the exact same assets as the PS360/Arcade/PS4XB versions.. so it doesn't look any better other than less aliasing.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 01:20 Post subject: |
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It is on the front page of steam releases???? So when is it released?
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 02:50 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | The_Leaf wrote: | | Personally I think texture and model quality is more important, but I still wouldn't say a game @ 900p/noAA looks "identical" to the same game at 1080p+/AA. |
Yet what happens when that texture and model quality is the same across all platforms, as CDPR have mentioned parity a few times? They said those things will be the same regardless of platform.. so running 1080p with MSAA/SSAA is still going to have the same assets, the same 900p textures and the same lower poly models, as the console versions. No?
That's the point.
Dead or Alive 5 runs at 4K on PC, with 4xSSAA, yet it still has the exact same assets as the PS360/Arcade/PS4XB versions.. so it doesn't look any better other than less aliasing. |
not to mention all BOOB jiggle on the PC version of DOA5 is GONE and has no skin/shadow/environment pixel shaders  (there was a Facebook page showing 90 features GONE FROM THE PC version )
wait a year before getting this game ... like Witcher 1 and its second part part 3 will also be Witcher 3 Enchanted Directors Uncensored Cut ... but now its even more reatrded with its season pass ... |
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 02:59 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Care to show your Steam library? You DCB? |
I don't have any on Steam. Not a big fan of Steam, pretty much only have it for Half-Life 2 & Portal, Humble Bundle stuff, the odd sale impulse buy, and some KS stuff like Wasteland 2 and Pillars of Eternity.
I pirated TW1. Keep meaning to buy it when it's on sale and give it another whirl, but haven't gotten around to it. I bought TW2 from GOG. Pre-ordered, even though I'm not in favour of that. But when the publisher forced them to adopt regional pricing and they told everyone to switch the region in their profile to the US to circumvent it, I thought that was worth rewarding. I enjoyed it well enough, got a few playthroughs out of it, but I wasn't overly keen on the combat. I decided early on that I would isodemo TW3 before buying, or not.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 05:55 Post subject: |
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I really don't mind that they announced those "expansions" if they aren't ripped out of the main game and quite lengthy. Which we don't know. I mind that they announced them before the game shipped though. Which raises exactly those two questions.... and leaves a very bad aftertaste.
To be frank though... nothing new on the front of the Greeding industry.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 06:02 Post subject: |
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From the shock horror Department:
"In news just to hand we learn that capitalists practise capitalism."
Believing CDPR won't make compromises that favour their profits ahead of vid quality is as naive as believing the party you voted for last election won't lie then fuck you up the ass sans vaseline.
I really don't know why everyone is certain this game will be so awful.
Of course they are gonna put profit ahead of perfection - otherwise we would all be in a thread of whines about the awfulness of CDPR going broke and no more Witcher games.
I still believe that this mob of greedheads have earned the benefit of the doubt, as they have previously demonstrated a willingness to engage on issues just about all other AAA game makers avoid.
Of course there will be some things that could have been better - every collective art form is at its core a cluster of compromises.
Imagining any such endeavor be it a game, a movie or a musical recording, to only contain compromises where quality has trumped economy in every instance is santa claus thinking - purposeless and self-destructive.
I'm gonna enjoy this game big mobs - partially because I already know&like the world it is set within, also because the game makers history is one of considering it's customers, but most of all because I am not going into it with a pessimistic worldview of expecting the worst.
There is simply no point in that cos nothing I believe, imagine or post is gonna change the chunk of code to be thrown out to us on release one iota - so why get negatively cranked over something that we're powerless to affect?
I can be secure in the knowledge that if the untoward actually did happen and CDPR foisted a steaming dog turd on us,I will get payback by iso demoing every CDPR effort in future and encouraging others to do the same
I'm pretty sure it won't come to that this time. CDPR's downward quality trajectory is unlikely to steepen before they suffer a major financial loss.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 06:30 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 01:02; edited 1 time in total
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 07:09 Post subject: |
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this is hardly surprising. cdpr spent all of w1 and 2 building up its reputation and connecting with its fanbase, and i think we all knew witcher 3 was what it was all building to... when they finally pull out the big guns and ambition and make their mark with their big AAA entry, where they drop their pretence and finally emerge from their cocoon as the glittering big ambitioned corporate butterfly they always intended to be, along with all the usual expectations in how they conduct themselves that come with it.
and honestly i dont really care.. only a fool becomes a fan of a developer or a publisher expecting them to always care about consumers first... they gave me one really great game and a second pretty good one, and im happy i had that much at least.... we always knew they had ambitions to be just like the big boys, they were never really about gaming or integrity... but whatever... its nothing every other company hasnt done or isn't trying to do 
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 08:18 Post subject: |
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Yeah, not like it was unexpected.
CDPR using valve tactics. we are good guys, saviors of pc gaming. until we have a large enough base to bend you all over 
Expansion pass 
Gonna enjoy yarring the gog version of that. Would yarr the game as well, but already have that 8 key copy preorder from ages ago.
+ considering this looks like a witcher 2 expansion that's even further away from what made witcher 1 an amazing game for me, not like I am expecting much anymore. They franchise is too mainstream now to surprise me like witcher 1 did.
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| Posted: Wed, 8th Apr 2015 09:15 Post subject: |
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