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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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 Posted: Fri, 24th Jan 2014 13:33 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:51; edited 1 time in total
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri, 24th Jan 2014 13:36 Post subject: |
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Dromaium
Banned
Posts: 462
Location: I don't identify as Banned, Ronhrin, Citizen.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri, 24th Jan 2014 15:48 Post subject: |
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| Dromaium wrote: | He likely can't afford 1/10 of a BTC.  |
His wage is quite high so can't see why he couldn't!  |
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spankie
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Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu, 13th Feb 2014 23:21 Post subject: |
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Scan.co.uk take Bitcoin as payment now. http://www.scan.co.uk/info/bitcoin
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, MSI RTX 5070 Ti Ventus 3X OC , Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms
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| Posted: Thu, 13th Feb 2014 23:41 Post subject: |
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Well shit, that's legitimisation right there. First of the "big" companies to take the step?
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Przepraszam
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Posts: 14498
Location: Poland. New York.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Feb 2014 00:04 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | $601 at the moment, but yeah, Mt Gox put a hold on withdrawals due to some fresh fraud. Still not unexpected, it's not like there was never any fraud with "real" currency  |
fraud/hacking whatever you call it. More like 'oops, the funds are gone guys. yeah, hacked and stolen'. Even if the guy just put it inside his own pocket, what can you do? It's free market, libertanian, not regulated. It's not only mtgox, also bitstamp en btc-e, so basically all of them...
And big company? I saw Apple and Google flipping the bird... and recently paypal. and china,and russia
mtgox has been going down in a straight line for the past 7 days. Past 10h at 1-2% per hour consistently. China will wake up, and start selling some more. I will probably wake up with btc @400...
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Fri, 14th Feb 2014 08:50 Post subject: |
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Airbag
Posts: 643
Location: The Netherlands
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Przepraszam
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Posts: 14498
Location: Poland. New York.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Feb 2014 10:11 Post subject: |
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| Airbag wrote: | Let's be fair and note that since the drama at mtgox, they really aren't representative of the bitcoin course anymore (can be argued they haven't been for half a year I guess). Have to be at bitstamp or btc-e for that (bitstamp is usually a bit higher).
Right now, mtgox is simply a place people want to get the hell out of, but can't. And apparently a playground for people willing to take some risk. Invest, buy some cheap bitcoins.. hope they enable btc withdrawals and issues arise with getting cash out of mtgox, causing bitcoins there to rise sky high... Profit.
.. if I understood the idea correctly. I just like following bits of the mtgox drama.
Also.. http://imgur.com/a/auRIK dat protest |
Sounds more like people at MtGox are scamming their clients by buying BTC at 220 and flipping them at 500-600 somewhere else... You are supposed to be 'happy' if you can get money out of mtGox, but every 'happy' client is netting MtGox a 300 profit, as they are selling their BTC somewhere else.
I mean, there is no reason at all to have a major exchange quoting at 250 when the other are quoting at 600 USD for the same product. *Someone* should be buying at 250 like a crazy and flip them at the other exchanges at 500 and net a nice profit. Until prices are equal again. This is not happening. Why? Because there are no buyers allowed at MtGox, everyone with a sell order, is selling to MtGox, and they are selling it at 500 at somewhere else. uber scam!
So far the 'free market' and unregulated libertarian crap. Really, just read some books on how brokerages were working in the 1970s 1980s, it really sounds like history repeating itself. Unless regulation is enforced, and something different than 'self regulation' or 'open source' or 'user based regulation', this BTC thing will spiral out of control and will become more marginal than it already was.
Cant see any shopping site embracing BTC in the near future as long as they arent 100% sure the BTC they collect can immediately be flipped for fiat.
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Airbag
Posts: 643
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Feb 2014 13:28 Post subject: |
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I agree, the stuff going on at MtGox reeks of a scam. They lost their credibility and are now ripping everyone with money still invested a new one. Or maybe that's what they started out to do. Sad world we live in..
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spankie
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Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Feb 2014 16:30 Post subject: |
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Yep,
And the fact that it is backed by noone but the community now comes back in their face as a huge boomerang.
What is left of the BTC credibility? I cannot imagine, at least since 1600 or so, that a bank or a central point of deposit or an exchange just ripped everybody off. It happened in the past, and then people set up control mechanisms etc enforece by law/government, to make sure it didnt happen again.
So we evolved 300-400 years to have a system which we have now. Starting a new system from nothing, well it just resulted in the same stuff that happened in the beginning of fiat money. What will happen? People will start whining, I read some posts yesterday about people asking for deposit guarantee schemes and governments to refund them for the lost value of their MtGox BTC.  How many times did the FED and ECB and ChinaBank warn people that they would 100% lose their value if things went wrong. People knew it was virtually nothing.
I mean, what is the optimal solution now? A law, a framework to have legal restrictions, a framework with rules to follow for banks/exchanges/wallets. Guess where we will end up... A system parallel to the existing fiat thing with a fixed exchange rate. Soooo, whats the advantage then of BTC??
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24643
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Feb 2014 16:48 Post subject: |
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BTC was always a variant of a slowly evolving pyramid scheme. In the early days you could make a profit but would always have difficulty using the bitcoins. When certain exchanges to other more stable virtual currencies popped up things took a real turn, the value went up and 100 million new miners arrived, FPGA and later expensive ASIC-miners popped up (and now they're obsolete as well).
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Mon, 17th Feb 2014 17:31 Post subject: |
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Despite (warranted) criticism, it's hard to imagine a future without cryptocoins (probably bitcoin will be there). Not so hard to imagine one without many fiat currencies we use today...
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spankie
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Location: Belgium
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Dromaium
Banned
Posts: 462
Location: I don't identify as Banned, Ronhrin, Citizen.
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| Posted: Sun, 23rd Feb 2014 03:15 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | | Frant wrote: | | BTC was always a variant of a slowly evolving pyramid scheme. In the early days you could make a profit but would always have difficulty using the bitcoins. When certain exchanges to other more stable virtual currencies popped up things took a real turn, the value went up and 100 million new miners arrived, FPGA and later expensive ASIC-miners popped up (and now they're obsolete as well). |
Well yeah, apparently, people still hail it with a collapsing MtGox. Been warning for the scamming properties for months, and I was always criticised.
You really think they (government) will allow people to lose money on fraudulent exchanges where nobody knows anything about and no transparancy
I'd rather have paper backed by a government than some bits backed by fraudulent crooks, money launderers and drug dealers |
Under the appropriate circumstances we're all fraudulent crooks, the question is which type of crook will we side with, the one who forces us or the one who manipulates us. We only have to bear in mind that we're the only responsibles for our own gulibility, nobody else should be restricted of using something because somebody else is to guilible to see through its dangers or flaws, this applied to drugs, addictions and pretty much everything that we're exposed to during our lives.
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spankie
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Dromaium
Banned
Posts: 462
Location: I don't identify as Banned, Ronhrin, Citizen.
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| Posted: Tue, 25th Feb 2014 10:02 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | Yeah, 100% free market, the best there is...
Anyway, is this the big 'i told you so' moment?
AFAIK mtGox is dead and btc is < 500 everywhere  |
MtGox has been signaling their death for several months, and to be frank, those who lost their money deserve to for not doing proper research, ultimately you are the only responsible for investing in a dubious plataform. The way I see it, people who oppose to the free market are only looking for security and safeguards to protect them from their own mistakes and poor evaluation abilities, which quite frankly says more about their character than any Keynesian political theory that you bring forth.
Nevertheless, I give it a few weeks or less for Bitcoin to stabilize once again above the $600 level.
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spankie
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Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue, 25th Feb 2014 14:46 Post subject: |
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nah, this is the de facto bankruptcy of the cryptocoin. I dunno why people would ever trust it again. It clearly offers no advantages, incentives are clearly fraudulent, it is not secure, people are constantly trying to hack it, there is no regulation. This cannot continue.
But hey, what did you expect. A virtual text string worth 1000USD, and people try to steal it, not quite surprising 
I am glad I didnt ship any BTC to anyone last year, would have been quite a waste
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Dromaium
Banned
Posts: 462
Location: I don't identify as Banned, Ronhrin, Citizen.
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| Posted: Tue, 25th Feb 2014 15:34 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | nah, this is the de facto bankruptcy of the cryptocoin. I dunno why people would ever trust it again. It clearly offers no advantages, incentives are clearly fraudulent, it is not secure, people are constantly trying to hack it, there is no regulation. This cannot continue.
But hey, what did you expect. A virtual text string worth 1000USD, and people try to steal it, not quite surprising
I am glad I didnt ship any BTC to anyone last year, would have been quite a waste |
Just like paper money, there will always be more creative ways to 'hack it', an one hundred percent secure currency is unattainable just like an one hundred percent secure system, but we need to analyze things in their proper context, cryptocurrencies are still in their infancy, and in their infancy they're infinitely more secure than paper money was during their infancy, cryptocurrencies need to evolve and adapt to their flaws, nevertheless, its potential for exploitation is still lower than their fiat money counterpart.
I strongly doubt that this will be the end of cryptocurrency, in fact I reckon that virtual currencies will last for as long as the internet exists. But one important issue to acknowledge is that even if cryptocurrencies were intrinsically flawed and doomed to fail, that doesn't say anything about the free market, if anything its nothing but an incentive for the free market to produce something better.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Tue, 25th Feb 2014 17:22 Post subject: |
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yeah, well I strongly disagree with that reasoning.
1) Paper money/fiat money in general is not in its infancy anymore, so dont try to replace it with something which is in its infancy
2) Cryptos will get stuck in infancy because they will never implement stuff that took fiat to the level of security it is
3) Paper money cannot be stolen from a wallet without people noticing it.
4) And my biggest problem, assume 1-3 get fixed, we still have to get rid of the retarded mining, but that's a whole other discussion
The whole crypto set-up is just not viable the way it is at the moment. People are just too stupid to realise that what happened over the past months with mtGox is not new. It happened in the past a gazillion times, yet people keep fooling themselves with 'things will turn out ok', which eventually does not materialise.
They are working with unregulated stuff like they are surfing too porn. They are sloppy, not careful, dont check anything, just use their VISA, buy some coins, leave them on some crappy exchange, and then they whine because it lost value or their coins are stolen. Yet, at the same time, they dont trust banks or other online financial institutions because they think words like 'regulated' or 'governmental oversight' are dirty.
You just need regulation to have a viable system, doesnt matter where the regulation comes from, but there needs to be regulation. I mean, it doesn't make sense. You go to work, you get a 2k paycheck, and you dont trust an oversighted and highly regulated institution to guard your money. And what do people do? they ship it in a hart beat to some shady dudes with no track record, besides drugs, money laundering and shady business.
And what really shocks me, apparently +-10% of total worldwide bitcoin supply was stolen from MtGox (if i can belief press stuff) and nobody saw it? What's the purpose of all the blockchain stuff. 10% of worldwide supply disappearing and nobody knows where it is, that's more than an infancy problem. Somebody must have known it and intentionally kept it for himself to benefit of others.
I dont hate bitcoin concept, it's a nice experiment, but what just happened just confirms my view that it is ill conceived from the start and just is a way for some people to benefit from others. We shouldnt embrace such a system.
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Dromaium
Banned
Posts: 462
Location: I don't identify as Banned, Ronhrin, Citizen.
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| Posted: Wed, 26th Feb 2014 03:16 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | yeah, well I strongly disagree with that reasoning.
1) Paper money/fiat money in general is not in its infancy anymore, so dont try to replace it with something which is in its infancy
2) Cryptos will get stuck in infancy because they will never implement stuff that took fiat to the level of security it is
3) Paper money cannot be stolen from a wallet without people noticing it.
4) And my biggest problem, assume 1-3 get fixed, we still have to get rid of the retarded mining, but that's a whole other discussion
The whole crypto set-up is just not viable the way it is at the moment. People are just too stupid to realise that what happened over the past months with mtGox is not new. It happened in the past a gazillion times, yet people keep fooling themselves with 'things will turn out ok', which eventually does not materialise.
They are working with unregulated stuff like they are surfing too porn. They are sloppy, not careful, dont check anything, just use their VISA, buy some coins, leave them on some crappy exchange, and then they whine because it lost value or their coins are stolen. Yet, at the same time, they dont trust banks or other online financial institutions because they think words like 'regulated' or 'governmental oversight' are dirty.
You just need regulation to have a viable system, doesnt matter where the regulation comes from, but there needs to be regulation. I mean, it doesn't make sense. You go to work, you get a 2k paycheck, and you dont trust an oversighted and highly regulated institution to guard your money. And what do people do? they ship it in a hart beat to some shady dudes with no track record, besides drugs, money laundering and shady business.
And what really shocks me, apparently +-10% of total worldwide bitcoin supply was stolen from MtGox (if i can belief press stuff) and nobody saw it? What's the purpose of all the blockchain stuff. 10% of worldwide supply disappearing and nobody knows where it is, that's more than an infancy problem. Somebody must have known it and intentionally kept it for himself to benefit of others.
I dont hate bitcoin concept, it's a nice experiment, but what just happened just confirms my view that it is ill conceived from the start and just is a way for some people to benefit from others. We shouldnt embrace such a system. |
I believe that you mistake regulation with trust in a secure system, or need I remind you the earlier years of banking and how bank owners consistently and consectuvely spend their deposits and violated their clients contracts.
Oh and btw, 12 hours in after the scam of the decade and the bitcoin price is yet again on the rise $560 as of this moment.
I believe we could have an interesting conversation here but by reading your posts I'm lead to believe that you lied about something, you do hate bitcoin and what it represents, at least your posts transpire this fact, you cannot fathom an unregulated currency and you're secretely hoping for it to fail.
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