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sanchin
Posts: 764
Location: Poland
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 Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 13:32 Post subject: Taxes, costs of life etc in your country |
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Inspired by the talk in the Belgium vs. the Netherlands topic I wondered how do things look more precisely. How much of your payroll gets "eaten" by the government and why.
Like, for example, in Poland:
- 3091 zł (745€) is the tax-free annual salary, so for that much (haha...) you won't pay the 18% tax
- anything above that, up to 85 528 zł (20 620€) is taxed at 18%
- above that - 32%
But from your normal salary there are deductions for retirement pension, public healthcare etc. And public healthcare is more or less shit plus the pensions as is won't probably exist when I'll be old enough to get it (and it would by ridiculously small in comparison to my earnings). To put things in numbers:
- out of 5000zł (which is 1/3 higher than the average salary, and almost 2 times the median)
-- almost 700zł goes to retirement / sick leave pension fund
-- 330zł is health insurance
-- income tax is 380zł because of some strange things I don't understand
All in all - out of 5000 zł, you get around 3500 zł on your bank account.
Then you pay 23% VAT in almost everything you buy, pay 1500-2000 for rent and bills in a studio apartment or 500-700 zł / head when living with flatmates. If you'd like to buy your own - 5000-6000 minimum for a square metre here.
So, how does it look elsewhere?
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 13:55 Post subject: |
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RatKing
Posts: 1212
Location: Nondescript cave in the land of the polar bears, Finland
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 14:27 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 18:25 Post subject: |
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Expenses:
- Retirement fund: 1%
- Health/vision/dental insurance: free
- Car insurance: ~$170 / month (had accident a year ago).
- Tax:
--- California state tax: 9.30%
--- Federal income tax: 25%
--- Social security / medicare: 8%
--- Real estate tax: $6000 / year
--- Sales tax: 8.75%
:'(
Sense Amid Madness, Wit Amidst Folly
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 19:38 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:51; edited 1 time in total
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sanchin
Posts: 764
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 19:51 Post subject: |
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Are those % for medicare etc from the base salary? Because in Poland the thing is, that only the retirement / sickness fund is a percent of the base salary, others are calculated by subtracting the fund part from the base and so on. Some quirks that make the percent not add up to the amount being deducted. That's why I used the example of 5000 before taxes and all the other shit, and ~3500 after.
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 19:54 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | Sooooooooooooooo... not free? |
Aaw come on, don't start that derp discussion especially not when the saying 'Free healthcare' has been invented to describe such systems in English (most likely comes from the USA).
For instance when we talked of it in Belgium we just called it healthcare and so far it's the same in Sweden. Bet it's the same anywhere else. |
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 20:00 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:51; edited 1 time in total
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Morphineus
VIP Member
Posts: 24883
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 20:05 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | There is no free healthcare. |
Exactly it's a term made up to describe European healthcare. But don't have to go: OMG SEE ITS NOT FREE! I think most people know that who still use that 'English saying'. It be different if someone would go out of his way to say it is free  |
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 20:14 Post subject: |
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 Spoiler: | |
Council tax varies but for a 3 bedroom house where I live it costs £1310.35 per year. You also get a 25% discount if you live alone.
VAT is charged at 20% when buying luxury items and 5% on others, as a rough guide. Some things are exempt from VAT, like essential food.
Ryzen 5 5600, ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING WIFI II, Corsair Vengeance RGB RT 32GB 3600MHz C16, MSI RTX 5070 Ti Ventus 3X OC , Corsair RMx Series RM750x. AOC AGON AG324UX - 4K 144Hz 1ms
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 21:35 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | Sooooooooooooooo... not free? |
Medicare is not health insurance for me. It's money to pay for senior citizens and disabled people who can't afford healthcare. I will never see a cent of that money for myself. So it's really a tax. My own health insurance is paid for by my company, and is free (as far as I am concerned).
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 21:37 Post subject: |
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| sanchin wrote: | | Are those % for medicare etc from the base salary? Because in Poland the thing is, that only the retirement / sickness fund is a percent of the base salary, others are calculated by subtracting the fund part from the base and so on. Some quirks that make the percent not add up to the amount being deducted. That's why I used the example of 5000 before taxes and all the other shit, and ~3500 after. |
Medicare is not for me. It is a tax that is meant to support old people and the disabled. So it functions just like a tax, and is a % of my income.
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 22:11 Post subject: |
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Whether I pay for it, or my employer pays for it, it's still not free.
Even from my own perspective it's still not free, since if the costs for the employer go down you can expect net salaries to go up.
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 22:24 Post subject: |
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| BearishSun wrote: | | Whether I pay for it, or my employer pays for it, it's still not free. |
Fine. If yall want to be pedantic about it, then no, the healthcare is not free. I just don't pay for it 
| Quote: | | Even from my own perspective it's still not free, since if the costs for the employer go down you can expect net salaries to go up. |
I don't know how it is in Croatia, but in America this isn't true. This is because the health insurance costs of covering your employees is a business expense, which you don't pay taxes on. Were you take that same money and give it to employees, you would have to pay payroll tax, social security tax, medicare tax on it, and then the employee would also have to pay state income tax, and federal income tax on it. So the employee wouldn't get that much So it turns out paying for the employee's health insurance is more efficient money-wise for both the employer and the employee.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed, 22nd Jan 2014 23:49 Post subject: |
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Let me get my paycheck:
3850: base salary
150: pension plan contribution
100: traffic compensation
150: meal vouchers
-550: social taxes (13%)
-1100: income taxes
-100 other small taxes
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2200 net + 150 pension + 150 meal vouchers
The pension money is locked away until 65, and you pay 2% year as 'insurance' and 10% when you draw it down. The meal vouchers are 'untaxed' income, but you pay 15% on it. Doesn't count for anything as income, and you can only buy food with it.
Healthcare: 100 per year
extended healthcare: paid by employer
life insurance taxes: 2% on all incoming money
dividend taxes: 25%
saving taxes: 25% on interests
car taxes: 300 / year
VAT: 21%
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 00:00 Post subject: |
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I hate authority with a passion so all my income is tax free and all my money is cash only.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65081
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 00:04 Post subject: |
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Current salary: zero
Taxes/VATs/buttsecs: too high and too many
Healthcare: works well because they want you to stay alive so you can pay more taxes
Pension: I'll never have one
Final status: broke and angry
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 00:06 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Interinactive on Tue, 5th Oct 2021 02:35; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 08:06 Post subject: |
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| tainted4ever wrote: | | I don't know how it is in Croatia, but in America this isn't true. This is because the health insurance costs of covering your employees is a business expense, which you don't pay taxes on. Were you take that same money and give it to employees, you would have to pay payroll tax, social security tax, medicare tax on it, and then the employee would also have to pay state income tax, and federal income tax on it. So the employee wouldn't get that much So it turns out paying for the employee's health insurance is more efficient money-wise for both the employer and the employee. |
It's the same here, it's a business expense. And true he would have to pay about ~25% tax on it if it was salary, but he would be in the same situation if I gave him any kind of a raise.
And I'm not really arguing whether employee or employer should pay it, I'm imagining a hypothetical situation where there is no healthcare insurance, for either. I agree it's cheaper for the employer to pay it with the current system - Just trying to explain why I don't consider it free, in either case.
But it's a moot point, just a matter of perspective I guess 
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 09:04 Post subject: |
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| Interinactive wrote: | Last months paycheck
$5,615.05 Base salary (less now since I took a day off and a 20% pay cut)
$1,209.00 Government/income tax per month
$519.39 Superannuation per month
$100 Life insurance per month
$2000 Car registration per year (2 cars)
$3000 house rates per year
No health care or anything to pay
I don't know what VAT is (maybe like our GST?) and screw paying for health care when you don't have to (I can pay for private healthcare but a lot of the time it's not any better)
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Yeah, VAT = GST.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 14:28 Post subject: |
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+ Base salary 4.415 €
- Pension insurance 417,22 €
- Unemployment insurance 66,23 €
- Nursing care insurance 51,64 €
- Health insurance 332,10 €
(all of these are mandatory and this is ~50% of the real insurance, the other ~50% are paid for by my employer, so the state takes 417,22 for pension from me and 417,22 of my employer, so in total the state takes 834,44 in pension insurance. Which actually means that my employer has to pay more for me than just the 4415, but actually 5282€  )
- Wage tax 546,16 €
- Eastern Germany rebuild tax 30,03 €
So net it's 2.971,62 € on my paycheck.
After that I pay ~300 € car taxes (because Diesel, else it would be ~100 €, depends on fuel type and motor size) per year.
Every three months 170 € for car insurance.
Every three months 56€ for national TV/radio. (forced)
And of course rent and other shizzles, which bring me to +- 0 each month
If I weren't married, I'd have to pay ~ + 350 € on taxes.
19% vat on everything except for food.. and hotels (THANK YOU FDP YOU FUCKS!), which have 7% vat.
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sanchin
Posts: 764
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 14:51 Post subject: |
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| PumpAction wrote: | | (all of these are mandatory and this is ~50% of the real insurance, the other ~50% are paid for by my employer, so the state takes 417,22 for pension from me and 417,22 of my employer, so in total the state takes 834,44 in pension insurance. Which actually means that my employer has to pay more for me than just the 4415, but actually 5282€ ). |
Same here - thing I've written are only MY costs, but the employer has to pay another 1000 for those insurances / funds so it gets closer to the employee getting half of what the employer pays.
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 16:22 Post subject: |
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Why? There doesn't seem to be much of a difference, especially if you are not married? And if my wife also gets a job then I'll lose quite a big amount of money!
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 18:28 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:51; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 18:55 Post subject: |
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I have better plans. Hopefully she'll earn more money than I do and then I'll be locked in the kitchen while she is out working.. And I will play games 24/7 
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sanchin
Posts: 764
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 20:34 Post subject: |
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| BearishSun wrote: | | tainted4ever wrote: | | I don't know how it is in Croatia, but in America this isn't true. This is because the health insurance costs of covering your employees is a business expense, which you don't pay taxes on. Were you take that same money and give it to employees, you would have to pay payroll tax, social security tax, medicare tax on it, and then the employee would also have to pay state income tax, and federal income tax on it. So the employee wouldn't get that much So it turns out paying for the employee's health insurance is more efficient money-wise for both the employer and the employee. |
It's the same here, it's a business expense. And true he would have to pay about ~25% tax on it if it was salary, but he would be in the same situation if I gave him any kind of a raise.
And I'm not really arguing whether employee or employer should pay it, I'm imagining a hypothetical situation where there is no healthcare insurance, for either. I agree it's cheaper for the employer to pay it with the current system - Just trying to explain why I don't consider it free, in either case.
But it's a moot point, just a matter of perspective I guess |
Got it 
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jan 2014 20:35 Post subject: |
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