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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73331
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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 Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 00:43 Post subject: |
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Trolling is exempted by fair use rationale. 
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73331
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 00:53 Post subject: |
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So they scroogled my trolling now? 
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 00:59 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 01:02 Post subject: |
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| Neon wrote: | | JanKowalski82 wrote: | | Neon wrote: | Silly Leonatanita
They have no legal right to profit from someone else's work |
It's good that you are able to make fun of yourself. I see some improvement, keep it up. |
Oh believe me, I'm not even close to making as big of a clown of myself when compared to you. |
Nothing beats a deluded envious loser like you.
ASUS GTX 660 2GB, AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE, MSI 870-G45, 4GB DDR3 1333, Plextor M5 Pro 128GB, WD Red 1TB
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 01:12 Post subject: |
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| JanKowalski82 wrote: | | Kein wrote: | | Question is why it applies to non-monetized videos where there is no revenue to get. |
Because you can't broadcast someone else's work without permission even if you don't earn money from it. It can be argued that the publishers are losing money from it, because someone might watch a whole game, instead of buying and playing it. It would be hard to prove, but IMO this is a stronger case for the publishers than piracy. |
But how do I broadcasting their work by using 10 seconds of clip, music or even a screenshot from the show? Case of example: non-monetized review. Isn't this the ethalon case of fair use?
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 01:49 Post subject: |
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it appears that content owners wants some extra money too.
Why walk, when you can ride.
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 01:51 Post subject: |
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| Kein wrote: | | JanKowalski82 wrote: | | Kein wrote: | | Question is why it applies to non-monetized videos where there is no revenue to get. |
Because you can't broadcast someone else's work without permission even if you don't earn money from it. It can be argued that the publishers are losing money from it, because someone might watch a whole game, instead of buying and playing it. It would be hard to prove, but IMO this is a stronger case for the publishers than piracy. |
But how do I broadcasting their work by using 10 seconds of clip, music or even a screenshot from the show? Case of example: non-monetized review. Isn't this the ethalon case of fair use? |
I think we're talking about 2 different things. I'm talking about copyright law. You're talking about how YT is implementing it. The system is obviously flawed (which is what all the fuss is about), because it's blind, it's automatic. But aren't there countermeassures for the system? I don't make videos on YT, but that's what I understand from their statement. You can fight the claims, if you belive they're wrong.
ASUS GTX 660 2GB, AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE, MSI 870-G45, 4GB DDR3 1333, Plextor M5 Pro 128GB, WD Red 1TB
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Smaggit
Posts: 71
Location: Gamerland
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 01:59 Post subject: |
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Shitpickle shitpickle shitpickle shitpickle shitpickle shitpickle shitpickle shitpickle...
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 02:11 Post subject: |
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| JanKowalski82 wrote: | | Kein wrote: | | JanKowalski82 wrote: |
Because you can't broadcast someone else's work without permission even if you don't earn money from it. It can be argued that the publishers are losing money from it, because someone might watch a whole game, instead of buying and playing it. It would be hard to prove, but IMO this is a stronger case for the publishers than piracy. |
But how do I broadcasting their work by using 10 seconds of clip, music or even a screenshot from the show? Case of example: non-monetized review. Isn't this the ethalon case of fair use? |
I think we're talking about 2 different things. I'm talking about copyright law. |
Well, I'm talking about YT as my original post implying. The thread is about YT after all.
| Quote: | | The system is obviously flawed (which is what all the fuss is about), because it's blind, it's automatic. But aren't there countermeassures for the system? I don't make videos on YT, but that's what I understand from their statement. You can fight the claims, if you believe they're wrong. |
Yeah, but that's not the point, besides the fact that it is practically impossible to fight this because 99% of disputes being rejected and if you try to appeal you could be banned (copywright strikes back!) just because of that.
Point is that why it is a problem in first place? Why automatic system tags only few seconds (and this is the only case) of someone's else content in the video? Or a screenshot (I've got "visual match" for a single screenshot bing shown for entire video) when the video is not even monetized. How else could you benefit form these small snippets in no-monetized video that clearly fall into fair use?
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 02:25 Post subject: |
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This is a typical situation of passing the buck, which is a form of misdirection for those who want to tackle the actual issue. By that I mean, Google doesn't want to deal with the copyright trolls, the media/affiliate organizations don't want to deal with the copyright trolls, and the individuals don't want to deal with the copyright trolls. The real problem is the trolls and they are taking advantage of this situation (which may be genuine for a select few, but the majority are third party trolls) by dividing and conquering. This has happened and continues to happen in other industries and is one of the pathways to unions and similar guilds. History repeats itself until some progress is made in the novel medium. A related example of someone standing up to these shenanigans is Newegg in Texas, the problem is that it's easier to pass the buck, pay the lawyers, be divided and conquered for self-interest. It's an inherent flaw in the current system, blame placed elsewhere is just hurting the cause. You need someone to say, "the buck stops here."
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 02:34 Post subject: |
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@Kein
Well, if it's as bad as you say it is (fighting the claims) then the system needs to be changed fast or people will leave YT. I guess the algorithm needs to be much more sophisticated to satisfy both sides: the publishers who want an easy tool to fight copying their work without permission and the people who want to create videos (monetized or not).
ASUS GTX 660 2GB, AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE, MSI 870-G45, 4GB DDR3 1333, Plextor M5 Pro 128GB, WD Red 1TB
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 02:56 Post subject: |
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I hate to beat a dead horse here, but why do they need youtube? they act as if they are train engineers and someone scrapmetal'd all the trains.
They have webcam, mics, and internet, Why cant they band together (or on there own, its really cheap) and fork in some cash and make their own site? Too much work? Too much hassle? Its entirely possible to do, people do it 1000's of times a day making other business sites..
I mean I just keep hearing "youtube stop screwing us!" If someone is screwing you and you dont like it...stop getting into bed with them. And find someone else you enjoy. Stop acting like they are the only partner in town...You dont hop back in the bed to ask them to screw you less...saying "i really like the easy sex you offer, its easier to get than anywhere else, just not your preferences in it"
I mean youtube isn't telling them to stop making videos or doing their job, THEN i could see them being pissed.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
Last edited by DXWarlock on Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:03; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:03 Post subject: |
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Because to serve such mass of people you need quite a network of (preferably geo-located) clusters. And it costs a lot. I'm not even mentioning software/licensing part and such. And that's just half of the problem. Imagine that for your ISP in US where you have US-platform (bunch of servers with content) arrives a copyright claim regarding some content on the your servers from copyright trolls (in case you told them to fuck off when they contacted you). Now there is a problem, because ISP/hoster don't care about this shit. You fix the issue or have a nice day somewhere else. Unless you are a hoster himself (as may google be in some cases) and you told them to fuck off. Then it goes into court.
I'm assuming you are talking about YT analogue.
Last edited by Kein on Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:10; edited 4 times in total
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:07 Post subject: |
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Again, is it too much work? They dont want the hassle of being their own boss and business? just the profit of it?
They are professional video actors according to them. And they arent the mass of YouTube hits. Angryjoe or totalbiscuit may get what 150k hits a day MAX on the release of a new game? maybe 250k? whats that a couple hundred bucks a month hosting costs? I'm sure they make that to spend in a month off it.
They have every opportunity and access to the things needed to do so. There is no way totalbiscuit couldnt get together people to move off youtube onto his own self owned video hosting website.
But they don't, or wont, or just don't care to do it.
They are running a business, they need to expect business costs for it to be reliable, controllable by them, and free from arbitrary regulation at the hands of a content hoster.
What Im hearing isnt "we cant do our job anymore!" its "we cant do our job cost free and as easy anymore!"
As for the copyright trolls if I hosted it myself, that's would be my problem. Even if it was on youtube, its not youtubes job to defend my video content. Not thier job to spend millions in legal fees to help me keep making videos. It's asking someone to fight the battles that you caused (even if rightly so) by your video.
Dont get me wrong, Im not defending what Google is doing. Im arguing why dont they stop grovelling at the master controller, and just become the controller?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:18 Post subject: |
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Just to be clear, in my original post I was talking about non-monetized video where usage of such content falls into fair use and does not violates copyright nor any danger to trademark (that forces companies to act and defend it).
But even with monetized - it still a problem to reviewers like Angry Joe for example. A valid problem.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:20 Post subject: |
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But thats not what they topic is about.
Its about those profiting off youtube, fussing that youtube is taking away thier 'only way' to post videos online as a job. Like youtube holds the patent on streaming videos on a webpage. And they have no option but to yell at youtube or they are doomed.
They arent doomed by optioned, they are self doomed by choice or lack of wanting to take harder, but more freely open and self regulated options.
Say I made money off giving private tours of public parks, Freely accessible public parks. Its not my place to yell Im loosing my job if they close the park. I decided to use something available to everyone, and not owned by me to turn a profit.
I COULD just go buy land and make my own park..but its easier to fuss the one I didn't own, and didnt work for, stopped letting me do it there.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:23 Post subject: |
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| DXWarlock wrote: | But thats not what they topic is about.
Its about those profiting off youtube, fussing that youtube is taking away thier 'only way' to post videos online as a job. Like youtube holds the patent on streaming videos on a webpage. And they have no option but to yell at youtube or they are doomed. |
I posted the question in regarding of the talk about content ID system here (there were also few videos posted on the subj, quite insightful)
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:26 Post subject: |
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Again its youtubes property. Right or wrong if they decided they only wanted videos of designer shoes and block every other video tommorow, so be it. They own the servers. They may loose customers, sure. But nothing is stopping them from doing it.
I find it amazing that the internet is the only place people raise hell and rally together crying foul about not being able to use someone else's private property how they like to anymore.
It reminds me of the people on my MC server that made huge penis statues..And I took them down and asked them to leave because people was complaining. I got "I mined the blocks I can place them how I want!". As if me allowing them on, meant they could do whatever they wanted on my property (server). Sure minecraft penises isnt illegal, but its my property, my rules. make your own property(server) and penis statue all day if you wish.
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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DXWarlock
VIP Member
Posts: 11549
Location: Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 03:49 Post subject: |
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I guess overall my thoughts are this. Why does people assume the internet is some mythical place that corporations MUST stand up for your actions just because you like using that corporations stuff..right or wrong.
Bear with me on this example:
Say I approached walmart, and said "Hey I shop here alll the time, Im going to be selling Nike shoes in your parking lot, it makes me some money, brings you customers to make a profit..win win." walmart even decides to toss a few bucks at me a week on the profit they make off the random new customers.
Then a month later they come out and go "um...yea this isnt working out, we got a court order from Nike about you being on our property selling their shoes and not a retailer of theirs, and we aren't affiliated with them either in any business sense..we got to ask you to stop and leave".
It would be ABSURD for me to go "What? I legally bought these shoes! I have a right to do as a wish with them...your not going to to spend millions in a fight for my right to sell shoes in your parking lot? Your the big dog, the guy with the power to fight them! why you letting them run me off? You are a cowardly business bending over to the whims of a lawsuit!"
It would be my place to goto Nike and talk to them about it if I wanted to sell the shoes there, not walmarts.
Why on the internet is it expected corporations to act different? Why because no tangible physical item is involved does it make it seem they must stand up for us, for our own actions they had no part in deciding?
-We don't control what happens to us in life, but we control how we respond to what happens in life.
-Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. -G. Michael Hopf
Disclaimer: Post made by me are of my own creation. A delusional mind relayed in text form.
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vurt
Posts: 13903
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 09:25 Post subject: |
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Why the hell did the idiots remove the "reply" option (just noticed this)? Is this because of the Google+ thing (which im already using)?
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 35114
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 09:37 Post subject: |
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Youtube comments?
There should be a "Share your thoughts" box you can click on and it'll ask you to sign-in via Google+ and then you can use that to reply with a few options such as sharing the post via Google.
On the plus side it allows posts to be of much longer length and it's possible to also type in URL's without them being blocked though it doesn't seem to prevent trolling like Google insisted it would and people can now post Ascii "art" and other strange stuff.
It also works a bit like a pop-up so Adblock+ (And NoScript) don't really like that so I've not used the new comment system but I never really used the old one either.
(I just like to watch.)
EDIT: Of course the author of the video can probably still block replies and such should he/she prefer that.
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vurt
Posts: 13903
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 09:44 Post subject: |
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I wanted to reply to someone that made a comment on one of my videos (he didnt understand how to install my G2 mod).. but there was no way to reply to him, i could make completely new comment but that's retarded, obivously i want the reply to be linked to his question. I know i had that problem a few weeks ago too..
I'm always logged in to google..
Last edited by vurt on Sat, 14th Dec 2013 09:47; edited 1 time in total
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 35114
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 09:47 Post subject: |
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You're right, I just tested it a bit and I can't find it either, that little arrow icon next to the username seem to just be for reporting posts.
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vurt
Posts: 13903
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 09:51 Post subject: |
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lol.. what the hell are they doing.. hope something else seizes this opportunity, there must be a ton of people who are willing to switch to something better.
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sausje
Banned
Posts: 17716
Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat, 14th Dec 2013 10:12 Post subject: |
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If you comment you can actually choose NOT to let anyone else reply.
You can remove comments that are direct reply to your comment and delete them without any hassle if you don't like what the other person wrote..
Tbh, those are 2 good features of the new comment system 
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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| Posted: Mon, 16th Dec 2013 06:00 Post subject: |
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