No penalties for killing in Thief, higher difficulties will not generate new mission goals, killing people in Dishonored with guns and powers felt "much more satisfying" [than stealth]"
Quote:
I wanted to bring up how you're encouraged not to kill anybody in Thief. In Deus Ex (and more recently Deus Ex: Human Revolution), if you killed somebody, it actually meant something--I mean, you could go around and gun everybody down, but nowadays, gamers seem to be getting used to the idea of worlds with consequences. Was that part of the process, that push to make you a part of the game's world?
SG: Well, we've talked about this extensively--we want gamers to respect Garrett. I mean, when this game comes out, you get it, you download it, and it's yours. But at the beginning, Garrett talks about how, as a master thief, you don't want to leave a lot of evidence. You don't want to leave a ton of blood on the floor and a bunch of dead bodies.
But at the same time, I don't want to tell you "hey, you're not supposed to play like that. I don't want you to play like that." It's still your game--if you want to push your moral envelope and start killing people left and right, that's fine. With Garrett, it's not about morals. When he says "stealing a life" is huge, it's not because there's going to be children crying afterward, it's because your life is the single most precious thing you have
Quote:
SG: There are difficulty levels, but it's a fairly standard thing--less hit points, but you can challenge yourself within the game's space anyways, create your own difficulties.
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What are your favorite stealth games?
SR: There was a game that recently came out, and it tried to use a lot of stealth elements: The Last of Us. But personally, for me, it was much easier to play aggressively. Dishonored, too--you had lots of tools and weapons and powers, and while you were encouraged to play stealthy, it felt much more satisfying to just fight with everyone and use your powers.
I don't want to tell you "hey, you're not supposed to play like that. I don't want you to play like that."
It's the same guy who said they added context sensitive jumping (you can't jump anywhere, only where developer allows you) because they don't want you to jump around, it's not immersive, you should jump only where we want you to.
I actually agree with the bit about Dishonored. There were so many different powers and tricks to use with the agressive playstyle but you were rewarded for stealth (which consisted of blink, strangle and tranq darts) so it all felt wasted.
I think it's pretty awesome that Thief is launching for a bunch of platforms (PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One). Will PC gamers or next-gen console owners have something extra to look forward to, compared to the PS3/360 versions?
SR: Naturally, new consoles will have new visuals--the object and world detail will be much richer. There will also be specific actions for next-gen controllers, like the PlayStation 4's. This isn't all about graphics though, it's not about putting twenty guards in a room. There will be better audio, better immersion and variation that will really make the City feel alive.
I take it the PC version is like 360/PS3 ones then?
No penalties for killing in Thief, higher difficulties will not generate new mission goals, killing people in Dishonored with guns and powers felt "much more satisfying" [than stealth]"
No penalties for killing in Thief, higher difficulties will not generate new mission goals, killing people in Dishonored with guns and powers felt "much more satisfying" [than stealth]"
Actually I agree with the Dishonored part too, as much as I love the game, that is true. But that is among the few very minor problems I have with the game, and I hope the guys at Arkane will add some variety to the stealth part in the sequel.
then why in every trailer they says the story is like a continuation from the previously titles ?
It did? I must have missed that, please show me
Neon wrote:
No penalties for killing in Thief, higher difficulties will not generate new mission goals, killing people in Dishonored with guns and powers felt "much more satisfying" [than stealth]"
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there goes what little bit of excitement I had managed to dredge up form the latest (p)reviews and trailer.
Neon wrote:
If you found shooting guys and using powers more satisfying than stealth then you're simply not a fan of stealth games, no?
caccolo wrote:
Why is someone with no interest in stealth allowed to develop a game built on that mechanic ? I dont' even...
It's like hiring a doctor to build a house
I still remember the facepalm when EM were talking about how "bringing Steven Russell back would only be due to nostalgia" - while they're talking about a series that had been dead for a decade and ONLY reemerges today BECAUSE OF nostalgia. If EM were making a "Steal'beat'em'up" as they are now, it could have been called anything at all - they deliberately went after the Thief IP for nostalgia purposes. Same with EA/Starbreeze and that fucking horrible Syndicate game.
If you found shooting guys and using powers more satisfying than stealth then you're simply not a fan of stealth games, no?
I am a fan of stealth games! Dishonored had bad stealth! Ai was worse than in Thief 1. Stealth in Dishonored = Blink+Strangle rinse and repeat! I like diverse, challenging stealth.
dishonored stealth was fine, but there weren't enough guards to make it challenging
i actually did a no-magic nonlethal ghosting run of dishonored
only had to do magic in the castle waterlock
I knew it, I fucking knew it. From the first time I heard those derpy bullshit statements and "Headshot +40xp" screens I knew they would destroy the game.
It will be a linear cover shooter with stealth elements and a damn magic Focus power, nothing more. And they will regret making it just as Hitman: Absolution devs did.
Thief interview — mission structure, complexity, lessons from DE: HR
Quote:
SR: We’ve seen players who don’t even bother to read anything they find. We have to make sure the game is fun for them, too. So, it’s a big challenge to add enough layers of exposition to not penalize anyone who wants to skip over that kind of stuff.
Ah, aim for the lowest common denominator, classy.
Quote:
We’re trying to do here is impart subtle messages that certain jumps will kill you—if you still tell Garrett to jump, he’ll instead crouch near the edge and look down.
Oh well...so it will be a basic Dishonored clone at heart, not a terrible game just not exactly the best evolution of a Thief game Perhaps it will be fun like Dishonored and we still have The Dark Mod for classic Thief gameplay.
Last edited by sabin1981 on Sat, 12th Oct 2013 01:58; edited 1 time in total
Thief interview — mission structure, complexity, lessons from DE: HR
Quote:
SR: We’ve seen players who don’t even bother to read anything they find. We have to make sure the game is fun for them, too. So, it’s a big challenge to add enough layers of exposition to not penalize anyone who wants to skip over that kind of stuff.
Ah, aim for the lowest common denominator, classy.
Quote:
We’re trying to do here is impart subtle messages that certain jumps will kill you—if you still tell Garrett to jump, he’ll instead crouch near the edge and look down.
TL;DR "We streamlined the shit out of this game so a mentally-stunted chimp could beat it in a day."
That's really just depressing, hard to put into words... Even as an 8 year old kid I enjoyed playing games that were a challenge, most games you never even got close to finishing but still loved them. These days... hand held all the way through, it's pathetic. Really hope it tanks.
the newest gameplay video is the first footage i've seen of this game. watching that crap and reading all this stuff here makes me sad. another franchise down the drain. RIP thief
it'll probably be a fun game, but it won't be thief..
Honestly I'm not even surprised that things went this way. It was clear since the beginning that this game had nothing to do with the original franchise.. I mean, they wanted to call it Thi4f at first.
Seems like they completely threw away everything good they did with Human Revolution, a streamlined sequel done right, because they thought that such a concept was still "too niche" for the masses. They didn't made it accessible enough to impress the Call of Duty audience, it still required some logical thinking, therefore they needed to fix their "mistakes".
I don't know if this game is the result of Square Enix's financial troubles, but it sure as hell is something that reeks of mediocrity, possibly even more than Absolution. If you intend to develop a Thief game with the combat in mind, you're simply doing it terribly wrong, there are no excuses for that. Don't call it Thief anymore, please.
inb4 "Hey but Focus is optional, you can still play it like the old ones!!" #teamelite#oldfansreunite
Seems like they completely threw away everything good they did with Human Revolution, a streamlined sequel done right, because they thought that such a concept was still "too niche" for the masses.
then why in every trailer they says the story is like a continuation from the previously titles ?
Since you didn't answer me with what trailer you heard this from (and I've certainly not heard this in any trailer I've seen) here's something direct from the developers in the interview posted by Neona;
SG: [laughs] I’ve said in other interviews that our Thief has a new story, a new Garrett, and so on. The old Thief games have that great history and legacy, but the more you’ll play our game, the more you’ll hear words you’ve never heard before. We have a sort of brand new lexicon for the game, as it were. As for taffer, you may or may not hear it. Maybe it exists in this world and maybe not. There’s an entirely new vocabulary at work.
"It's 'Thief' because we want to restart it, to reinvent it," says Stéphane Roy, producer on the game. "We want it to be part of the future, the next generation, and not part of the past. It's not a sequel. It's something new."
It's a reboot, not a follow on from the previous stories, they're just using the name and general setting. Anyway, the interview was thoroughly depressing - going on about how "you're a master thief, you can play aggressively and wipe out the entire room if you want" just makes me want to repeatedly smash my face into the keyboard. They're not making a Thief game, they're making a competitor to Dishonored and using the Thief brand to sell it.
That just shows that this game has nothing to do with Thief. If it was a true Thief game that guy would have said: "This game is full of taffers! You'll hear one every damn corner!", but he did not, so...
Seems like they completely threw away everything good they did with Human Revolution, a streamlined sequel done right, because they thought that such a concept was still "too niche" for the masses.
This game is made by a different team.
Yes I'm aware of that, but still, there has to be some manager able to understand the difference between good past decisions and bad future ones..it's so evident. Or do they only care about money?
If you found shooting guys and using powers more satisfying than stealth then you're simply not a fan of stealth games, no?
Agree. not a fan of stealth games But I enjoyed Dishonored. I always tried out stealth but just rolled with the bullet if it went sideways.
The only game which I totally finishes full on stealth was chaos theory and hitman2 and blood money
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then why in every trailer they says the story is like a continuation from the previously titles ?
Since you didn't answer me with what trailer you heard this from (and I've certainly not heard this in any trailer I've seen) here's something direct from the developers in the interview posted by Neona;
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I still remember the facepalm when EM were talking about how "bringing Steven Russell back would only be due to nostalgia" - while they're talking about a series that had been dead for a decade and ONLY reemerges today BECAUSE OF nostalgia. If EM were making a "Steal'beat'em'up" as they are now, it could have been called anything at all - they deliberately went after the Thief IP for nostalgia purposes. Same with EA/Starbreeze and that fucking horrible Syndicate game.
Perhaps it will be fun like Dishonored and we still have The Dark Mod for classic Thief gameplay.
