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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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 Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 00:45 Post subject: |
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Time to hurt some butts because I know some won't agree, but I finally finished it. If you don't agree (sup cobALT), let me make this abundantly clear up front: I M O
TL;DR for those with short attention spans: fantastic game, one of, if not the best on PS3. Have a PS3 and haven't played this yet? Put it at the top of your list.
Let's start with the good. It looks stunning, sounds stunning, story is told brilliantly. Warning up front: I use Uncharted as a counter measure regularly because it's from the same developer and shares some stuff with this.
Gameplay gets a little thin at times, but the QTEs are actually *quick* time events; they could've been even shorter for my taste, but at least they're not interactive cutscenes where you have ages to maybe look at your controller, forget what button they want you to press, look up again to see what it was, look down at your controller to try and find it...you get my point. The gunplay is as good as it gets on consoles really; I do like the fact that some of the guns have a huge kickback as well as very limited ammo. Shorty and El Diablo in particular are amusing, because you have those huge tradeoffs against their power. That said, because I hate aiming with a stick, I stuck to stealth most of the time. And that's where this game shines compared to Uncharted for example; it is very rare to be forced into shooting. Most of the game you can stealth if you want. Theoretically that should be possible in Uncharted as well, except that there you have much smaller areas with less places to hide and the AI has super vision. Unlike cyclone, I also don't think there should've been more "platforming". That just does not fit in the game; the bits that are there are identical to Uncharted; just press the button they want you to and voilà, magic happens. Hence the quotes, because in Uncharted you can't really fail (only a handful require actual timing) and it's the same here.
Visually I don't think there's any game as gorgeous as this. The texture quality is ridiculous and stupid amounts of detail everywhere. From little signs to messages carved into walls - and then there's the shit you can pick up (notes and such) that are all of top quality, modeled properly in 3D. ND's lighting is also some of the best I've seen on the PS3. The motion capturing also paid off, the majority of animations look very natural and in most cases they blend together well. There's a few odd moments but that happens 
The voice acting is top notch, with the exception of Joel sometimes getting that hillbilly accent Mister_s pointed out. Why that is, I don't know - Baker should've stuck to either a toned down one or the pure hillbilly (and he is from Texas, so he should be able to ). And then there's the music; cyclone thinks it's underused, but I think it's spot on. For the majority of the game, there is no music, which is the whole damn point of it. And it's not even during action sequences that you get the same shit swelling up or anything, the music is used to convey emotions. Worked for me, so I say job well done there. Mind you, I played the whole thing with a good pair of headphones powered by an amplifier, so perhaps it wouldn't have worked as well as it did if I had used my 5.1 set. It's just the combination of solid voice acting, good facial animations and sporadic use of music that made this so compelling to me. On a sidenote; get the OST if you haven't already, some of the tracks are pure genius.
The story is a little predictable at times, but like I said, the emotions are conveyed very well, which make it that much better.
The atmosphere is just fantastic and really has that post-apocalyptic zombie world feeling to it.
Now, the bad.
The visuals. Wait, what? Yep, the visuals. As I said a month and a half ago when some of you didn't read my post and only picked out a handful of bad words, ND are visibly struggling to fit their vision into the limitations of the PS3. In everything you can see they are craving the power they'll get on the PS4 or would've had on a PC. I still stand by that statement and I truly wish they'd have done this for PS4. Here's hoping to The Last of Us HD - I'll gladly buy it again 
Also, while playing, the game visibly drops 5-10 FPS and that's a damn shame. What I find very annoying however is that the (few!) cutscenes are rendered at 60 FPS -or seem to be, as they are much smoother than the rest of the game- which makes for some really awkward transitions. I would've preferred these to be at 30 as well. Again, do want PS4 or PC for this so it can all run at 60. Same goes for the lack of anti aliasing; I don't think anyone can disagree that this game at 1080p with 4x MSAA would've not just been one of the best looking PS3 games, it would've been one of the best looking games, period.
Then there's the gameplay nags; I would've liked to see more puzzles. Most of the game is basically moving from one place to another, encountering some enemies along the way and finding shit to loot. There's no real puzzles other than that you just need to find whatever hole you need to crawl into. Then at the end you power up a generator or carry a ladder into place. I'm not sure what they could've done in terms puzzles, because unlike Uncharted there's no way to really justify it I suppose. Same goes for the crafting; I would've loved to make my own arrows for example (obviously, the bow was one of my weapons of choice  ).
And then more nags due to the ancient platform: most areas are relatively small, they keep you contained as much as they can. A few areas stand out, but nothing really happens in them. What I would've liked though, is more areas like them (the university for example) with a wider network to explore rather than just single rooms here and there.
And my final, ever-returning nag: FUCKING STICK AIMING 
Give me a mouse and keyboard for PS4, PLEASE (or allow ND to release on PC  ).
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 01:37 Post subject: |
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Werelds take is pretty much spot on imo, its one of the best games of this console gen in several departments, especially storytelling-wise.
but, it is also obvious that naughty dog´s ambition was too grand for current gen, the game does struggle in places and doesnt always look as great as was intended, yet still being one of the visually, if not THE most visually pleasing console game so far.
you really cant put any blame on naughty dog for this in the end, they indeed did the best they could considering the aged hardware, and i particularly cannot wait for what they have in store for the ps4, especially with one of them being the lead architect.
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 01:50 Post subject: |
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Yeah I think sadly I expected Uncharted 4 rather than what should have been new Resident Evil games.
While that would explain the zombies, the no platform or puzzle part, I still won't agree with the music  But that's IMO, just like IYO
A game that uses the music perfectly to me is Tomb Raider, which is slower and emotional during emotional sequences, and fast and epic during action sequences.
In TLOU, the music is in fact always the same guitar theme (although you can say the same about Tomb Raider, the theme is remixed a lot), and only happens in emotional parts (and not all of them !).
I don't think it even has more music than Tomb Raider 1 (the old game, from 1996), which only had music on key events.
I won't spoil anything here, but some parts of the game were action oriented or dramatic, and yet the music was either non existent or slow as hell, which doesn't make sense to me. Sometimes, even during big emotional shock, you need an epic music to be played, not some guitar, again and again and again.
Don't get me wrong, the music is good, but I think many other games (hell even Derp Space 3) has it better.
But, that's my opinion So I won't force you into thinking the same. I don't play it with headsets, but I do use 5.1 speakers, so my sound is fine, I guess (but epic sound sounds even better on 5.1 rather than this discrete soundtrack ).
This game is prolly the best survival game I've ever played, definitely, but, since I don't like the genre itself, I have a hard time praising the Last of Us. I'm more of a platformer guy (you noticed too ? ) and this game is clearly not one.
For people who expected Uncharted or Tomb Raider in this game, I think they will be disappointing. Good thing is that the majority of the forum expected this to be a real survival game, rather than just Uncharted with zombies Well, in fact it's not, they did change a lot of stuff.
One thing I think I already mentioned before, but I think smbdy did too is that platformer or not, the game suffers from a weird melee system. I know you said the QTEs were OK because they are actually QTE, not QTE cutscenes, but the QTEs are really lame and interfere with the melee system to me, they are completely unneeded.
I know Uncharted had a similar system, which was already dodgy, but sadly the QTE ruin it for me. The fact you can't dodge, or lean without having to follow scripted QTE is just bad.
So far, you guys are gonna laugh at me, but one of the best melee system I've ever found in these kind of games is........ The Bourne game on x360/ps3, I remember it to be fast paced and the QTE weren't killing the rythm.
Tomb Raider has a nice melee system, but no hand to hand combat which both Last of Us and Uncharted rock on that side.
Finally, the cover system isn't the best, it was better in Uncharted (and Tomb Raider ), but the fact there is no way to stick to a wall or lean really didn't help for me. The game is about stealth mostly, but even Metal Gear Solid 2 has a better cover system ?!?
Hopefully now you guys can see why I think this game isn't worth a 10/10 nor a 9/10, it obviously has issues, I think many people would agree with me, but still forgive them.
And don't be mad at me because I dare finding things that irritates me in this game ! That's just my opinion i'm sure some people would still like to read about.
EDIT : I won't expose the positive things since Werelds exposed them already.
And I won't debate ages on the graphics : yeah the game lacks of AA, and yeah the game sometimes runs at 10 fps.
| Werelds wrote: | Time to hurt some butts because I know some won't agree, but I finally finished it. If you don't agree (sup cobALT), let me make this abundantly clear up front: I M O
TL;DR for those with short attention spans: fantastic game, one of, if not the best on PS3. Have a PS3 and haven't played this yet? Put it at the top of your list.
Let's start with the good. It looks stunning, sounds stunning, story is told brilliantly. Warning up front: I use Uncharted as a counter measure regularly because it's from the same developer and shares some stuff with this.
Gameplay gets a little thin at times, but the QTEs are actually *quick* time events; they could've been even shorter for my taste, but at least they're not interactive cutscenes where you have ages to maybe look at your controller, forget what button they want you to press, look up again to see what it was, look down at your controller to try and find it...you get my point. The gunplay is as good as it gets on consoles really; I do like the fact that some of the guns have a huge kickback as well as very limited ammo. Shorty and El Diablo in particular are amusing, because you have those huge tradeoffs against their power. That said, because I hate aiming with a stick, I stuck to stealth most of the time. And that's where this game shines compared to Uncharted for example; it is very rare to be forced into shooting. Most of the game you can stealth if you want. Theoretically that should be possible in Uncharted as well, except that there you have much smaller areas with less places to hide and the AI has super vision. Unlike cyclone, I also don't think there should've been more "platforming". That just does not fit in the game; the bits that are there are identical to Uncharted; just press the button they want you to and voilà, magic happens. Hence the quotes, because in Uncharted you can't really fail (only a handful require actual timing) and it's the same here.
Visually I don't think there's any game as gorgeous as this. The texture quality is ridiculous and stupid amounts of detail everywhere. From little signs to messages carved into walls - and then there's the shit you can pick up (notes and such) that are all of top quality, modeled properly in 3D. ND's lighting is also some of the best I've seen on the PS3. The motion capturing also paid off, the majority of animations look very natural and in most cases they blend together well. There's a few odd moments but that happens
The voice acting is top notch, with the exception of Joel sometimes getting that hillbilly accent Mister_s pointed out. Why that is, I don't know - Baker should've stuck to either a toned down one or the pure hillbilly (and he is from Texas, so he should be able to ). And then there's the music; cyclone thinks it's underused, but I think it's spot on. For the majority of the game, there is no music, which is the whole damn point of it. And it's not even during action sequences that you get the same shit swelling up or anything, the music is used to convey emotions. Worked for me, so I say job well done there. Mind you, I played the whole thing with a good pair of headphones powered by an amplifier, so perhaps it wouldn't have worked as well as it did if I had used my 5.1 set. It's just the combination of solid voice acting, good facial animations and sporadic use of music that made this so compelling to me. On a sidenote; get the OST if you haven't already, some of the tracks are pure genius.
The story is a little predictable at times, but like I said, the emotions are conveyed very well, which make it that much better.
The atmosphere is just fantastic and really has that post-apocalyptic zombie world feeling to it.
Now, the bad.
The visuals. Wait, what? Yep, the visuals. As I said a month and a half ago when some of you didn't read my post and only picked out a handful of bad words, ND are visibly struggling to fit their vision into the limitations of the PS3. In everything you can see they are craving the power they'll get on the PS4 or would've had on a PC. I still stand by that statement and I truly wish they'd have done this for PS4. Here's hoping to The Last of Us HD - I'll gladly buy it again
Also, while playing, the game visibly drops 5-10 FPS and that's a damn shame. What I find very annoying however is that the (few!) cutscenes are rendered at 60 FPS -or seem to be, as they are much smoother than the rest of the game- which makes for some really awkward transitions. I would've preferred these to be at 30 as well. Again, do want PS4 or PC for this so it can all run at 60. Same goes for the lack of anti aliasing; I don't think anyone can disagree that this game at 1080p with 4x MSAA would've not just been one of the best looking PS3 games, it would've been one of the best looking games, period.
Then there's the gameplay nags; I would've liked to see more puzzles. Most of the game is basically moving from one place to another, encountering some enemies along the way and finding shit to loot. There's no real puzzles other than that you just need to find whatever hole you need to crawl into. Then at the end you power up a generator or carry a ladder into place. I'm not sure what they could've done in terms puzzles, because unlike Uncharted there's no way to really justify it I suppose. Same goes for the crafting; I would've loved to make my own arrows for example (obviously, the bow was one of my weapons of choice ).
And then more nags due to the ancient platform: most areas are relatively small, they keep you contained as much as they can. A few areas stand out, but nothing really happens in them. What I would've liked though, is more areas like them (the university for example) with a wider network to explore rather than just single rooms here and there.
And my final, ever-returning nag: FUCKING STICK AIMING
Give me a mouse and keyboard for PS4, PLEASE (or allow ND to release on PC ). |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 02:16 Post subject: |
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| The_Zeel wrote: | | you really cant put any blame on naughty dog for this in the end, they indeed did the best they could considering the aged hardware, and i particularly cannot wait for what they have in store for the ps4, especially with one of them being the lead architect. |
Exactly. I reckon their first game will be the first real "wow" game on PS4. More so than Killzone for example, which will have the fidelity but not the quality. It will still be the same bland shit.
@ cyclonefr: not the same guitar theme at all
There are 7 or 8 distinct themes, on the OST each theme has a few tracks. I just think the silence is more fitting than calm music because the game as a whole is pretty melodramatic. During the more happy scenes, you hear that in the music too; but they let the actual scene on screen and the acting get it across. Guess it just didn't work for you
Note that I won't compare to TR just yet, that's on my list to play. Need more se...err game time 
As for the cover system, matter of preference. I prefer this over the stupid pressabuttontoflytoandsticktoawall system. This is more oldskool, I know a lot of people don't like it. |
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 03:36 Post subject: |
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Do yourself a favor and play Tomb Raider then, it has a much better cover system yet no pressabuttontofly, the fact she crouches automatically is really nicely done and smooth, it has the perfect balance between these 2 types I'd say.
Although I know many people of this very forum hated Tomb Raider while most people here loved the Last of Us, so hopefully you are one of those who like Tomb Raider.
I think most people from this forum hated the fact that the game is scripted and has Michael Bay explosions, but honestly, scripted or not, I'm not expecting GTA in a Tomb Raider...
Also, most people hated the QTE, maybe you won't like them because there are a few (pretty rare though after the prologue) that are "cinematic like", although none that are in cutscenes per se from what I remember (which I think you don't like), all are in the gameplay, and thus I don't think kill the rythm of the game.
You need time though, the game is about 10h, and that's when rushing it (because my play time too is limited, is sadly had to rush it, although I tried to explore quickly).
Certainly both TR and the Last of Us (can't say the same about Uncharted) have the quality of being pretty long games for what they are, which is too rare (if non existent) these days.
You'll find Tomb Raider too easy though, specially compared to the Last of Us, so maybe don't play it in normal...
Also, what I like to take into consideration is that the Last of Us is a PS3 exclusive, have in mind that Tomb Raider is multiplatform, where the lead platform was the X360. I'm not sure which version you will be playing it (obviously the PC version is the nicest), but I did play it on PS3, and it felt like an exclusive : Nixxes are amazing porters, and FSAA is a blessing in this game (which LOU seriously lack). The game is gorgeous and one of the nicest of this gen, and also, the FPS are quite consistent to 30fps (obviously 60fps on PC if your PC can handle it ).
But I think it's more fair to compare the same platform rather than PC vs PS3.
Maybe that's why after playing this game, many aspects of LOU felt a little awkward or less impressive. Oh and dat bow/arrow system on TR is much better than TLOU one (again, my opinion, but seems like people here think the same too).
I end up too much using guns in TLOU because the bow is just too weird for me (again after playing TR, maybe I'm too used to it !).
Still, I will say it again, and again, but TLOU has a really top notch acting with nice facial animations, which is rare these days (please dont show me a Crysis 3 video on PC in ultra, I know how facial animations look in this game!), but you can really READ the emotion of the characters in the their face, and this is amazing !
Tomb Raider has it too really well done, with even the eye balls moving (I know it's not new, but for some reason in this game, I noticed they are on par with the emotions the faces display).
Both of these games has these kind of details amazingly done, even though they don't look like Crysis 3 faces, somehow they display emotions much better. Think LA Noire.
PS : you are lucky to still have to play TR, I wish I'd have to play it !
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 11:47 Post subject: |
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The reason TR hasn't been at the top of my list is because from all the footage and comments from other people, it looks like they've turned it into a shooter with platforming elements instead of the other way around, like TR is supposed to be. That doesn't sit well with me, since the original TR I played to death (on PS1 at that as well) so that platforming has to be the core element for me. Sadly proper platforming is dead for a large part nowadays
I will be playing it on PC though obviously. Not for the graphics, but for the KB+M. I just really cannot stand stick aiming when I know there's such a superior input method readily available. I can look past graphics anyway, despite what a lot of people in this section of the hump think; I think I made that abundantly clear with my opinion of this game. And with this one it's not even about the quality why I'd want this at 1080p w/ MSAA (it's not FSAA on consoles btw, never is - it's MSAA at best). It's because of ND's crazy attention to detail which just deserves it 
There is one part I didn't actually mention above, which nagged me a little. The facial expressions are brilliant and the voice acting along with it is a perfect fit - but the lip syncing is still shit as ever. I don't get why Valve are still the only ones who really do this properly (well, LA Noir did I guess  ) and they did it almost a decade ago. CryEngine *can* do it, but CryTek didn't really in Crysis 3 :/
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 13:19 Post subject: |
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I'm glad smbdy agree with me about Crysis 3 ! Every time you speak about facial animations, people put out some Crysis 3 screenshot... Which is nice, but that's all it is !
Yeah I think perfect lip sync is in LA Noire too sadly...
And about FSAA vs MSAA, you need one day to teach me a lesson about it, you know how I get mixed up with them every time
And yeah people are right : TR is action oriented more than a platformer these days, although I suggest you do the optional tombs to then, which are pure platform.
But, it's still better than nothing, and still has some platform parts which are joyful !
BTW, I just thought about something : we are in a gaming section and yet we talk about acting... Can you believe how far we have come off in the gaming industry ? I don't remember any acting in Wolfenstein 3D or Doom (and hell, even ID Software uses motion capture these days too, see Rage...)
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 13:51 Post subject: |
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That's a good thing
Goes such a long way to telling the story.
And truth be told, some games have had some some big names doing the voices as well. More importantly though, some of the (fantastic!) actors in some games recently have really received a lot of recognition for their work. IMDB is also paying more attention to video games now for example.
Obvious example is Baker with 2 hits in a row, but then you have Elias Toufexis for example. Or Michael Mando (and those last 2 together are fucking hilarious, seen those videos?  ). It's finally really getting a lot of attention now.
Haters gonna hate though, but you know who did that a decade ago? Yep, Valve. HL2's voice acting was pretty brilliant, as is Portal's (both games). HL2 also had a ridiculous cast (Alyx === Marlene btw ) and that's what I want to see money spent on. Need more money going into things that make the games better. Not like Call of LOLZ which claims a $100m development budget and then does another $200m marketing. Suppose that $100m is true; what the fuck was it spent on? Wasn't the technology, wasn't the assets, wasn't the voice acting. HL2 made by with around $40m; BF3 about $30m and in both games you can see what it went into. I wonder what the budget of this one was
Also, Crysis 3 was still boring as fuck; fantastic technology, crap game.
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 14:04 Post subject: |
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Holy mother of jesus huge walls of text. Good review.
I'm glad this game comes at the end of this generation, I doubt I can take any console game seriously after this game.
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 14:46 Post subject: |
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headshot
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 18:32 Post subject: |
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| cyclonefr wrote: |
Although I know many people of this very forum hated Tomb Raider while most people here loved the Last of Us, so hopefully you are one of those who like Tomb Raider.
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I think most people on the forum loved TR, it's just that the two who didn't insisted on hanging out in that thread announcing how much they disliked it in reply to every positive comment others made.
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arN3x
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sun, 30th Jun 2013 19:41 Post subject: |
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That does not belong in the same league as GTA, TLoU, Bioshock, most likely B2S and a ton of other games
There's just no way they can fix that horrible, horrible piece of crap that is GT5 unless they rip out the entire driving model
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arN3x
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Location: Lithuania
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Jul 2013 00:10 Post subject: |
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I agree with you guys except with GT6, I'm prepared for a shitty game. Demo is next week, we'll see...
That's an amazing last year of this current gen, while Last of Us isn't my favorite obviously, Bioshock Infinite and TR really blew my mind. Can't wait for Beyond (and maybe Watch Dogs ? Who knows how the PS360WiiU version will play ?).
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Mon, 1st Jul 2013 00:22 Post subject: |
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| cyclonefr wrote: | | Demo is next week, we'll see... |
Is it now
Didn't even realise that, shows how much interest I have in it. And that's coming from someone who loves racing games and has probably played the original GT more than anyone else on the hump
| Quote: | | (and maybe Watch Dogs ? Who knows how the PS360WiiU version will play ?). |
W_D I won't call "this generation". They'll release it, but only because they want the sales. Everything about the game is clearly made for PC and next-gen consoles.
I do expect it to be a damn fine game though |
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headshot
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headshot
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| Posted: Tue, 2nd Jul 2013 03:54 Post subject: |
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headshot
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| Posted: Wed, 3rd Jul 2013 15:20 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Jul 2013 22:06 Post subject: |
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I haven't played any ps3 games in a long while, so I am not sure if it's normal or not, but I have a slight controller input lag. I'm playing from internal HDD and every button press is registered with like a ms delay. Controller shooting mechanics are already annoying enough, but that shit makes me not want to play. It was especially noticeable in the opening little girl sequence but got better (or maybe I got slightly used to it). Is this normal for this game or is something wrong?
Sig too big. -Nothing is too big for Fedor. Expect a nasty armbar.
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Jul 2013 22:21 Post subject: |
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| headshot wrote: | | http://kotaku.com/the-moral-ambiguities-in-the-last-of-us-646394482 |
very good read and i do agree with the author.
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Grale
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| Posted: Sat, 6th Jul 2013 23:12 Post subject: |
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| Ishkur123 wrote: | | headshot wrote: | | http://kotaku.com/the-moral-ambiguities-in-the-last-of-us-646394482 |
very good read and i do agree with the author. |
Some very good points in that. I was left very disappointed when I finished the game.
It was quiet an emotional journey throughout the game, and I felt cheated that I had no say in the decisions Joel made at the end.
Loved the game but I was left with a slightly bitter taste in the end. Maybe this was in the design.
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azzman
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| Posted: Sun, 7th Jul 2013 04:29 Post subject: |
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I hated the fact I couldnt choose the outcome at the end. I fully expected to be able to make the decision on which way it would go after all that build up
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