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Posted: Tue, 16th Aug 2005 22:19 Post subject: |
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Posted: Tue, 16th Aug 2005 23:06 Post subject: |
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the thing i like about consoles is that they absolutley push the systems to the max finding better ways of coding for the machines and by the time the next one comes out theyve pretty much done all they can do. PC industry is a lil different they maybe make one or 2 games on a current gen GPU which fully utilize the features before the next gpu comes out that adds a new feature so imho cards go underused they never really push them to their true limits through coding the industry just moves on to the next thing.
The other thing i like about consoles is the ease of use how many people here have fired up a game only to have it reset back to their desktop or get some weird corruption becuse the game is buggy. Or because of some driver issue. Consoles its pretty simple the games loads and it plays. Its the benefits of having one standard peice of hardware.
The thing i love about PC's however is you can often tweak your games yourself. The excellent software dev kits good studios with good loyal communities put out extend the life of your game to the limits of your own imagination. And yes as every pc fanboi in existance of the universe and whatever comes after like to point out KB and mouse for certain games is superior to a controller in every single way.
Next Gen consoles however are looking amazing if these machines hold up and the games look like they do one the renderware movies we see then i'm avin it. $300 one machine great gfx that gets 5 years of hardcore game development where studios push its cpabilites as opposed to 5 years of spending $500 almost every yr + upgrading memory cpu and gpu to play 2 or 3 games a year that actually utilise the hw u just paid for to its fullest. I love my pc gaming but there's just not enough good product out there atm to justify spending the money on constant upgrading
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nightlith
Posts: 744
Location: Land of Bagged Milk
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Posted: Tue, 16th Aug 2005 23:28 Post subject: |
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lol 2 words as to why consoles are superior:
Katamari Damacy
And I love how you guys argue that PC games are more complicated and stuff, but you're using FPS as a main example. "Oh sheet...I need to hold ctrl and space to do a crouch jump? And then press mouse button 1? WTF man this is hard sheet!" lol!
Developers are constantly innovating new game ideas and genres for consoles. The most innovative the pc has gotten is RPG/RTS hybrid. BW2 is looking good though (but more of a glorified tamagotchi/god/rts game with a unique interface). Anyone play Sea Man on the Dreamcast? Or Donkey Konga? DDR? Completely new genres you just won't find on PCs. AnimalMother is dead on with the whole money arguement. The only money you can make on a PC is a multiplayer WW2 FPS (fuck it's the only type of game we've had for 2 years...CoD, BF, BF expansions, Medal of Honour) Seriously...you've played one WW2 FPS, you've played em all. "Oh but damn, CoD was the most complicated and deep game I evar played lol!!1one11!"
And I don't see too many fighters like tekken or mortal combat on the PC. How many of you diss consoles as game machines only to have had some of the best times playing 4 player Goldeneye on the N64?
PC's also don't have the Burnout series...the most hilariously fun arcade racer ever made bar none (ok maybe carmaggeddon but I never really played that).
Be that as it may, while I believes consoles are the best platform for gaming, I'm constantly peeved that they aren't doing that exclusively anymore. And they are becoming a bit too pc-like. Meh. I still play PC games and still enjoy a handful of PC games, but consoles are still just as, if not more, awesome. 
i can has computar?!
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 00:28 Post subject: |
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MaroW wrote: | -=Cartoon=- wrote: | "there are games that are great and will never find their way to the pc. "
Such as ???
The only reason a "great" game would not make it onto PC is license issues. |
lol... your great... what about gta, resident evil, doa or tekken kinda games, jump n runs, sports games... well... almost every game that isnt RTS or FPS... sitting in front of a desk would totally destroy the atmosphere of those...
and now dont start again with your "i can hook up my pc to my tv" shit... though i surely would have one of the best laughs of my life watching you ripping out all the cables from your puter... taking it to your living room... putting all the cables back in... place keyboard and mouse + 2 controllers in front of it... loading windows... loading the game... just to have a few rounds of tekken with your buddy... and then taking all the stuff back to the desk...
i like both for what they are there for and will not dismiss either console or computer... though computer gaming has a way too low cost/performance ratio... |
Uh dude, thats how I play games...I hook my computer up to my tv. All I do is take the svideo cable outta the digital box and plug it into my computer, both are in the same room mind u.
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javlar
Posts: 1921
Location: Kalmar, Sweden
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 00:32 Post subject: |
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Have so much to say but cba with this discussion. Havent we had this like ten thousand times except instead of "PC vs Next Gen" they were called "PC vs XBOX", "PC vs PS2", "PC vs Gameboy Color"?
My two cents: PC and consoles will merge and you will have one entertainment-center with your basic PC that accept modules for different consoles. It will be hooked up to your TFT where you do your desktop work and then you take your wireless keyboard and mouse to the couch where you can play your pc and console games on your bigscreen tv.
Gaming - Intel Quad Q9450 @ 3.2GHZ | Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB | SB X-Fi | PC6400 8GB | 300GB Velociraptor
HTPC - Antec Fusion Remote | AMD Athlon 7850 X2 | PC6400 2GB | 74GB Raptor
Server - Athlon 64 X2 4200+ | Radeon HD 3450 | SB X-Fi | PC5300 2GB | 4TB+ total space
XBOX360 Gamertag: javlarmate
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:17 Post subject: |
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nightlith wrote: | lol 2 words as to why consoles are superior:
Katamari Damacy
And I love how you guys argue that PC games are more complicated and stuff, but you're using FPS as a main example. "Oh sheet...I need to hold ctrl and space to do a crouch jump? And then press mouse button 1? WTF man this is hard sheet!" lol!
Developers are constantly innovating new game ideas and genres for consoles. The most innovative the pc has gotten is RPG/RTS hybrid. BW2 is looking good though (but more of a glorified tamagotchi/god/rts game with a unique interface). Anyone play Sea Man on the Dreamcast? Or Donkey Konga? DDR? Completely new genres you just won't find on PCs. AnimalMother is dead on with the whole money arguement. The only money you can make on a PC is a multiplayer WW2 FPS (fuck it's the only type of game we've had for 2 years...CoD, BF, BF expansions, Medal of Honour) Seriously...you've played one WW2 FPS, you've played em all. "Oh but damn, CoD was the most complicated and deep game I evar played lol!!1one11!"
And I don't see too many fighters like tekken or mortal combat on the PC. How many of you diss consoles as game machines only to have had some of the best times playing 4 player Goldeneye on the N64?
PC's also don't have the Burnout series...the most hilariously fun arcade racer ever made bar none (ok maybe carmaggeddon but I never really played that).
Be that as it may, while I believes consoles are the best platform for gaming, I'm constantly peeved that they aren't doing that exclusively anymore. And they are becoming a bit too pc-like. Meh. I still play PC games and still enjoy a handful of PC games, but consoles are still just as, if not more, awesome.  |
Hhahahahhahahahhahahaha.. i dont know where to start...
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:23 Post subject: |
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AnimalMother wrote: | Well whether or not you want to accept it PC gaming has been slowly declining for years now, and it's only going to get worse.
Developers make games for money, and the money is on the consoles. I will not deny that there are many great games on the PC that I love. But it's not enough. There are just too many console gamers in comparison.
I mean fable would have been amazing on the PC, but it came to console first and was ruined. Even two of the greatest PC games had sequals that were made with consoles in mind, i'm of course referring to Deus ex 2, and Thief 3. I can say with almost 100% certainty that the developers made more from their console versions then the PC ones. What does that tell developers? It tells them to make more console games.
There are so many more console games then there are PC games on a time:release ratio that it's incredible.
PC's will eventually be relegated to work related tasks, because once the interface issues are sorted out PC's will lose a major advantage. I mean, it can't be difficult to create an effective mouse and keyboard for consoles. Then strategy games and FPS's will be far more enjoyable on the consoles. |
"PC's will eventually be relegated to work related tasks"
Haha i remember someone telling me that at the store when i purchased my n64.
The reason so many games come out on console is because it is soooo easy to make a console game compared to a PC game.. Yes consoles have a larger user base.. and they ALWAYS have.
Your saying that consoles will be good with a keyboard + mouse.. but at the same time people saying the consoles are good for sitting down on a couch..
You ever tried using a keyboard + mouse while sitting down on a couch ?
And you had a good example of how consoles ruin games. Dues Ex 2 + Theif...
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:23 Post subject: |
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the console is a more social machine. although online pc play is also good fun.
recently tho i find myself rarley playing single player console games coz the majority of games are are... how do i put this... boring i guess. there are a few exeptions, usually rpgs.
anyways, games are games. doesn't matter the system. but if i had to choose which one is 'best' then pc wins hands down simply coz of the freedom.
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:26 Post subject: |
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-=Cartoon=- wrote: | nightlith wrote: | lol 2 words as to why consoles are superior:
Katamari Damacy
And I love how you guys argue that PC games are more complicated and stuff, but you're using FPS as a main example. "Oh sheet...I need to hold ctrl and space to do a crouch jump? And then press mouse button 1? WTF man this is hard sheet!" lol!
Developers are constantly innovating new game ideas and genres for consoles. The most innovative the pc has gotten is RPG/RTS hybrid. BW2 is looking good though (but more of a glorified tamagotchi/god/rts game with a unique interface). Anyone play Sea Man on the Dreamcast? Or Donkey Konga? DDR? Completely new genres you just won't find on PCs. AnimalMother is dead on with the whole money arguement. The only money you can make on a PC is a multiplayer WW2 FPS (fuck it's the only type of game we've had for 2 years...CoD, BF, BF expansions, Medal of Honour) Seriously...you've played one WW2 FPS, you've played em all. "Oh but damn, CoD was the most complicated and deep game I evar played lol!!1one11!"
And I don't see too many fighters like tekken or mortal combat on the PC. How many of you diss consoles as game machines only to have had some of the best times playing 4 player Goldeneye on the N64?
PC's also don't have the Burnout series...the most hilariously fun arcade racer ever made bar none (ok maybe carmaggeddon but I never really played that).
Be that as it may, while I believes consoles are the best platform for gaming, I'm constantly peeved that they aren't doing that exclusively anymore. And they are becoming a bit too pc-like. Meh. I still play PC games and still enjoy a handful of PC games, but consoles are still just as, if not more, awesome.  |
Hhahahahhahahahhahahaha.. i dont know where to start... |
I bet you don't. 
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:37 Post subject: |
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console games get made everyday, there dumbed down games with the playability of a vending machine. Pc games are made to suit the pc user with graphic options etc etc
Pc's are (and always will be) bigger, better, always upgradable, stronger platforms in each and every way, end of discussion
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:39 Post subject: |
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well hes judging a entire console vs pc debate on 2 games...
And he says
"he only money you can make on a PC is a multiplayer WW2 FPS "
hahahaha.. yeah right...
Then he says that we do nt have the burnout series... ummmm ok.... then he says we have carmaggedon.. but then he says he has never played it.. granted they dont compare.. but how can you take a guy seriously who says that.
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:41 Post subject: |
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Uh huh. So tell me how Half-Life 2 is a thinking man's game compared to... say, Halo 2?
Correct Answer: it's not. Console games as "dumbed-down" is an invalid argument, as there are tremendous amounts of games that are far beyond simplistic. Morrowind (which WASN'T "ruined" for being developed alongside PC), Full Spectrum Warrior (came out on Xbox first, a console), Lumines, Madden games (I don't fancy sports games, but all of them are complex to hell and back).
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 02:51 Post subject: |
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You ever play Deus Ex 1 ??
Ever played a game like civilization on console ? how about silent hunter 3 ? how about rome total war ?
Ever tried playing command and conquer on pc.. then trying to play it on console..
Imagine eve online... regardless of if you like the game or not.. a game like that could NEVER be put on a console...
You can have full spectrum warrior.. that game was a pos..
I agree sports games are better on console.. i think i even said that.. so are fighting games.. but look at the "hit" games.. very few of them are fighting or console
A *shit* pc game will amaze console gamers and for them its a good game.
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 03:06 Post subject: |
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In general consoles cater for a much wider and younger audience hence anything overly complex wont sell well.
Its pretty obvious more mature gamers are prone to using pc games, just look at how many pensioners there are still playing games like counter strike.
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 03:17 Post subject: |
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-=Cartoon=- wrote: | You ever play Deus Ex 1 ??
Ever played a game like civilization on console ? how about silent hunter 3 ? how about rome total war ?
Ever tried playing command and conquer on pc.. then trying to play it on console.. |
Have you ever played Steel Battalion? What about Ferrari F355 Challenge? And Ninja Gaiden, have you ever played that too? Or do you deem it to be 'teh suck', since it looks like a figher and everyone knows their depth is to mash buttons!!!!
Quote: | Imagine eve online... regardless of if you like the game or not.. a game like that could NEVER be put on a console... |
Actually, it can. You seem to be forgetting an MMORPG on the console that goes by the name of FINAL FANTASY XI. I heard it was pretty popular.
Quote: | You can have full spectrum warrior.. that game was a pos. |
Wonderful rebuttal.
Quote: | A *shit* pc game will amaze console gamers and for them its a good game. |
Heh, right. That sounds more like the PC elitism talking.
Look, all you're seem to saying that fighting and sports games are only good on the console, and everything else is better on the PC. But all you're listing, as examples, are RTS and FPS games, which is unfair due to the controller disadvantage (which isn't a lot). What about RPG, Adventure, Puzzle, or Platform games?
Any type of game can work on any type of platform, especially now and days, you just need a brain to figure out how to work around limitations on specific platforms. The differences between PCs and consoles are only coming down to upgradibility, user interfaces and modifying games. And I won't be suprised if the latter gets implemented soon (into the Xbox360 at least).
EDIT: LastRite, anything complex doesn't sell well period. Do you see Allied Force, IL-2, and Silent Hunter III becoming best sellers? And Counter-Strike is as complex as wiping your ass.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 03:26 Post subject: |
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Well done, you cannot come up with a counter argument.
And no, I'm an open-minded developer. I see all platforms for what they are.
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 03:33 Post subject: |
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you can mod xbox games now if you have a modded box
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 03:37 Post subject: |
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Yes, but I rather have official support for mods in the games rather than going through the trouble of modifying the console to access it's hard drive.
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 03:47 Post subject: |
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killmestupid wrote: | Uh huh. So tell me how Half-Life 2 is a thinking man's game compared to... say, Halo 2?
Correct Answer: it's not. |
Hell to me it is. HL2 compared to Halo? Halo is just run and gun shooting and is so overrated. HL2 at least kinda has puzzles in it. Simple but it's not just running and shooting like Halo. I meet tons of people that are like "OMG!! HALO 2 IS THE BEST SHOOTER EVER!!!!1!!" and I just tell to to play a PC fps. So much better than Halo. Half-Life 1 & 2, Call of Duty, Battlefield series, Unreal Tournament, Quake series, Doom series, Medal of Honor: Allied Assault (still the best MOH out there), and the list goes on.
One thing that I like about PC games though is patching. If there's something screwed up, they can fix it. Not so with the consoles. Well that might change though with the new ones or the ones after that. I know some games for xbox live you can download an autoupdate thing and it can fix a glitch or something. But that's a small glitch and only one. And if a game isn't on xbox live or you don't have xbox live you're screwed.
Also PC games can have mods which consoles don't. Mods can add so much to a game. Hell it could make it a whole other game. Look at the first Half-Life and see how much mods changed that game. Still a great game with or without the mods though.
And about the complex games don't sell. Well not shit. People are idiots and don't like to be bothered with complicated stuff. Everyone wants everything in a nice neat package and easy to get into. They don't want to be bothered to learn something.
I think every console should be backward compatible (unless it's new format like with Nintendo systems). It's great cause you don't have to dig out an old console, dust if off, plug all the plugs in (if you have them and didn't lose them), just to play lets say one game you're in the mood in.
And some games like people said here can never be made for consoles. RTS games like Rome: Total War and shit like that. If they were they would be dumbed down. Or some games like Baldur's Gate. Sure it came out for the consoles but it was a entirely different kind of game. It was like a hack and slash kind of game with little RPG elements. The PC ones are pretty complicated.
For me I just prefer keyboard + mouse cause for one I just find it more confortable and two you're not limited to just like 10 buttons. Plus for like FPS I find it better. On consoles it feels like I'm a robot while playing FPS games.
But overall I like them both. Consoles will have games that PC won't and vice versa. Consoles will always be in the lead because it applies to the masses. PC games are only for a small selection. But saying that PC games are gonna die is fuckin retarded. It will never die. I have a good PC and I have xbox, ps2 and gamecube so I play all the games. For me I just prefer playing games on the PC than consoles. But I don't knock the console down too much. There will be things PC can do better (FPS & RTS) and somethings that console can do better (platforms, sports).
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:10 Post subject: |
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HL2 is coming to xbox, and i'm willing to bet that HL3 will either be a duel release or come out on console first. Valve know where the money is.
There are lots of games where it seems the PC release is a secondary consideration for the developer. Even though the game originated on the PC. There are probably more examples, but ones I can think of right now are Fable, Deus Ex, Thief and GTA. They migrated to console kingdom. So what does that tell you about developers attitudes?
You guys seem to be forgetting the main thing, money. This is what it's all about. No matter how much you jack off over your new graphics card, or go on about how complex PC games are it won't change the fact that consoles are more profitable when it comes to games.
Personally I can say that I hate complex games. I want to play a game to have fun, not have to sit down for an hour to read through the manual. The most recent example of a game like this I played was Universal Combat. Boring as shit, because it was overly complex. Deus Ex was fun, but it wasn't exacly complex now was it.
Eventually it'll result in far fewer games being released specifically for PC. Virtually every game will be a console port, and those few that arn't will be those crappy third party developer games.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:23 Post subject: |
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All the FPS games you have listed ARE run and gun. None of them have any other elements to them. Half Life 2 only had two or three puzzles at most, and they were so insignifcant I wouldn't even consider them puzzles, just minor annoyances. In the end, Half-Life 2 was just a run and gun, and I felt it was a step back from the original Half-Life. The original felt like you were in a movie, while the sequel felt like it just should've been a movie. The design for Halo made it obvious that it was a run and gun. Some powerful, military weapon as the main character? Check. Military and usable alien weaponry? Check. A war of sorts? Check. It wasn't trying to fool itself by placing too much emphasis in asset production, it just improved upon the run and gun genre by adding smarter AI, good vehicle controls and movement/weapon loadout tweaking.
And Microsoft is fixing the Xbox LIVE thing by offering the silver service for free on the 360, which means free updates. And the Xbox is capable of handling even bigger glitches, and more than one.
And the Baulders Gate game wasn't meant to be a port of any kind, just a different game. It's more than possible to port Rome: Total War with all of it's functionality on the console, but it's not really in the market. The KotOR games had complicated rules too, and you can enable an option to watch it's D20 system in action.
I'm not saying consoles are better or anything, just that what a lot of you say doesn't hold water. The PC has more than it's share of mindless, simple games, just as much as consoles do. But the most of you are just using PC's best on the console's worst, and not considering anything else.
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:27 Post subject: |
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Quote: | EDIT: LastRite, anything complex doesn't sell well period. Do you see Allied Force, IL-2, and Silent Hunter III becoming best sellers? And Counter-Strike is as complex as wiping your ass. |
In that case halo 2 multiplayer would be as complex as creaming your pants. . .
I appologise for demeaning the significance of your xbox 360 preorder.
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hahe
Posts: 1685
Location: US
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:29 Post subject: |
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By run and gun I mean not running for cover, not planning anything out, and just running in there shooting. That's why I find Halo so boring. Well that and I don't really like futuristic games. I just wasn't really impressed with Halo 1 & 2. Everyone thinks they're the best thing since sliced bread.
Although I prefer PC than console I never said that console sucks and PC is the best or whatever. I was just stating stuff that PC had and consoles don't. Hell I love consoles. I just like some things better on PC but there are some things better on consoles.
Last edited by hahe on Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:30; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:29 Post subject: |
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I don't play Halo multiplayer. Probably once in awhile at LAN parties.
hahe: I know you didn't, sorry if it meant I was lashing out at you. I mean other people, such as Cartoon and the resident de_dust server stuffer, LastRite, here.
Last edited by killmestupid on Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:31; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:30 Post subject: |
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Seriously this whole discussion is just conjecture until the next gen consoles have been out for a couple of years.
I just fail to see how the majority of developers are going to pass up making mega bucks by selling their souls to the consoles.
My opinion is that a game should either be developed for both platforms at the same time independently, or should be developed for just one.
Ports prevent games from reaching their true potential.
"Techniclly speaking, Beta-Manboi didnt inject Burberry_Massi with Benz, he injected him with liquid that had air bubbles in it, which caused benz." - House M.D
"Faith without logic is the same as knowledge without understanding; meaningless"
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 04:32 Post subject: |
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so do bad publishers pusshing pc devs to rls a game gefore its ready.
boiling point for example
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Posted: Wed, 17th Aug 2005 05:44 Post subject: |
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It seems the console trend is to merge PC-like power with the compatibility and ease of use of the console market. Its true that the PCs have enjoyed numerous advantages over the years...online play, patching, modding, certain genres that are difficult to put on a console (RTS, PC RPGs like Baldur's Gate, MMORPGs).
We've seen a lot of that change. Two out of the three current gen consoles boast online play, and all of the next-gen will have online play. Who knows about patching or modding, but as the consoles become more PC-like, they'll probably take on more PC functions. As for the various genres, we've already seen some examples of games crossing over. FFIX for both PC and PS2. Look at the major FPS...virtually all of them have been ported over for the consoles. For the strategy games, I don't see why a Rome: Total War (with mouse and keyboard support) couldn't do well on a console if you had a high-definition TV. It may not be what console gamers are used to but you could say that with a lot of the FPS that have been coming over on the current gen.
Frankly, the only real long-term advantage the PC has are its hardcore gamers who are willing to spend hundreds of dollars a year to have the top-notch graphics and mouse/keyboard support. Don't be surprised if the next-gen (or the next next gen) have keyboard/mouse support, modding and patching support, etc. The hardcore PC gamers are a minority, and with the costs of developing games rising steadily, you'll probably find yourself spending lots of money (relatively speaking) to play very few games.
Don't get me wrong...I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for PCs. I've had some of my favorite gaming moments on PCs, but I think consoles are simply the way of the future. Who knows...maybe some fancy device or unique genre will change all of that.
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