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LeoNatan
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 Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:15 Post subject: Google dropping support for EAS support for new devices |
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http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2012/12/winter-cleaning.html
| Quote: | Last January, we renewed our resolution to focus on creating beautiful, useful products that improve millions of people’s lives every day. To make the most impact, we need to make some difficult decisions. So as 2012 comes to an end, here are some additional products, features and services we’re closing:
On January 4, 2013, we’ll be shutting down several less popular Google Calendar features. You’ll be unable to create new reservable times on your Calendar through Appointment slots, but existing Appointment slots will continue working for one year. In addition, we’ll discontinue two Calendar Labs—Smart Rescheduler (we recommend Find a time view or Suggested times as alternatives) and Add gadget by URL. Finally, Check your calendar via sms and Create event via sms (GVENT)—U.S.-only features for creating and checking meetings by texting information to Google—will be discontinued today, as most users prefer mobile Calendar apps.
Google Sync was designed to allow access to Google Mail, Calendar and Contacts via the Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync® protocol. With the recent launch of CardDAV, Google now offers similar access via IMAP, CalDAV and CardDAV, making it possible to build a seamless sync experience using open protocols. Starting January 30, 2013, consumers won't be able to set up new devices using Google Sync; however, existing Google Sync connections will continue to function. Google Sync will continue to be fully supported for Google Apps for Business, Government and Education. Users of those products are unaffected by this announcement.
In addition to Google Sync, we’re discontinuing Google Calendar Sync on December 14, 2012 and Google Sync for Nokia S60 on January 30, 2013. We’re also ending service for SyncML, a contacts sync service used by a small number of older mobile devices on January 30, 2013.
The Issue Tracker Data API allows client applications to view and update issues on Project Hosting on Google Code in the form of Google Data API feeds. We’ll shut down the Issue Tracker API on June 14, 2013.
Punchd is an app that keeps loyalty punch cards on your smartphone. On June 7, 2013, we will discontinue the Punchd Android and iOS apps, and merchants will no longer honor Punchd loyalty cards. Users can continue to earn punches and redeem rewards at participating businesses until June 7, 2013. We remained focused on developing products that help merchants and shoppers connect in new and useful ways. |
Well, fuck you Google! Fuck if I'm going to use that shit IMAP, or worse, your implementation of it, that doesn't even support IMAP-IDLE. 
I will be moving away from Gmail most likely.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:31 Post subject: |
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1) I really cannot see anyone move away from gmail at this point
2) Why does it even bother you, current devices are still going to function, and the kinks are most likely going to be worked out once you have to switch to the new standards?
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 02:48 Post subject: |
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Current devices. What happens when I switch my phone? Tablet? These kinks, as you call them, have been like this since 2007 when they added support for IMAP. And even if they add support for IMAP-IDLE, it is still nowhere near as elegant of a protocol as ActiveSync is. This is a horrible move.
Hard to move from Gmail? Set Gmail to forward all mail to new email and that's it. My friends will know my new mail, so the Gmail will remain to collect dust, err I mean spam.
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garus
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 11:39 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 15:25 Post subject: |
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IMAP-IDLE is not supported, I tell from experience. Also, IMAP is wasteful on data and CPU processing. Yes, I am that angry. 15 minutes fetch is not the same as push email/calendar/contacts.
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garus
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 15:35 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 15:49 Post subject: |
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Dumb decision by Google, but seriously Leo, ActiveSync elegant? I take it you've never actually seen the documentation, it is one of MS's more messy products. It works very well, but it is far from elegant. Too many layers, too much overhead. It really is not elegant in any way; IMAP isn't either though. And both have some things the other doesn't; what AS has in syncing capabilities, IMAP has in actual data (AS is horrible with folders and searching). IMAP is a bit heavier on the CPU for obvious reasons but in terms of data usage it depends on how much email you get (like I said, AS has huge overhead).
As far as I'm concerned neither AS nor IMAP+DAVs are the solution. Both are ugly to work with, neither does all they should do and neither is fully supported on everything.
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b0se
Banned
Posts: 5901
Location: Rapture
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 16:05 Post subject: |
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| garus wrote: | | It takes 15 minutes to fetch new e-mails from Gmail on iOS? |
3 seconds actually.
[spoiler][quote="SteamDRM"]i've bought mohw :derp: / FPS of the year! [/quote]
[quote="SteamDRM"][quote="b0se"]BLACK OPS GOTY[/quote]
No.[/quote][/spoiler]
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 16:06 Post subject: |
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Art least IMAP is an open standard (as far as I know). Some article stated that Microsoft demands royalties for the usage of EAS.
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garus
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 16:53 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 17:10 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | Dumb decision by Google, but seriously Leo, ActiveSync elegant? I take it you've never actually seen the documentation, it is one of MS's more messy products. It works very well, but it is far from elegant. Too many layers, too much overhead. It really is not elegant in any way; IMAP isn't either though. And both have some things the other doesn't; what AS has in syncing capabilities, IMAP has in actual data (AS is horrible with folders and searching). IMAP is a bit heavier on the CPU for obvious reasons but in terms of data usage it depends on how much email you get (like I said, AS has huge overhead).
As far as I'm concerned neither AS nor IMAP+DAVs are the solution. Both are ugly to work with, neither does all they should do and neither is fully supported on everything. |
Seeing as how I wrote an Objective C library implementing portions of it, I know how complex it can be. But it is elegant as far as performance and actual data is concerned. It is the only protocol that is suited for mobile devices first. As a mobile user, I could care less how difficult it is to implement it. And seeing as how I have little regards for open standards or especially the "open" committees that take years to come to any conclusion, fuck that too.
@b0se If you have no clue what I am talking about, what is the point of commenting? Since there is no push support from Google's server, iOS, Windows Phone, etc (everything that doesn't use Google's proprietary protocol or iOS "native" app) is reduced to fetch. Fetch is a polling operation, that on iOS at least, is done every 15 minutes. So yes, once every 15 minutes, it takes 3 seconds to determine if there is a new mail or not. Other providers, such as Yahoo support IMAP-IDLE, so at least these ones have push support. But IMAP is a horseshit protocol anyway regardless. Zero fucks were given about how open it is. |
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garus
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 17:22 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 17:24 Post subject: |
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Yes, "native" Gmail app on iOS has push too. Fuck if I give a damn. Maybe on Android, Google actually made a worthwhile app. On other platforms, it's horrible horrible piece of crap.
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 17:24 Post subject: |
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| me7 wrote: | | EDIT: This is a great example what happens if you don't have push support |
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 17:25 Post subject: |
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Because they use a proprietary push service in their app that is not accessible to clients that use barebones IMAP.
EDIT: Again. Damn Leo, how can you write answeres in so little time.
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LeoNatan
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Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 17:31 Post subject: |
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I have a fetch polling interval of 0.3 seconds.
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 18:50 Post subject: |
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I assume that Google don't support IMAP IDLE because they used EAS so far. If they phase out EAS, they are likely to adopt IDLE soon.
BTW: Have you tried the new Gmail app for iOS? I've read mostly good reactions about it.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 19:00 Post subject: |
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Yes, I have. It's still a "native" UIWebView wrapper. I hate it.
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garus
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 19:08 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 19:08 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | Seeing as how I wrote an Objective C library implementing portions of it, I know how complex it can be. But it is elegant as far as performance and actual data is concerned. |
That does not make it elegant and again, data-wise it's no better than IMAP due to the retarded overhead (in comparison). It builds on top of HTTP and XML, neither of which are particularly elegant; especially XML is not. Email aside, the other parts of AS are barely different from their Dav counterparts. You can hate them all you like, but AS is in fact based on all of the IETF's standards. HTTP and Dav are both open standards by the same committee and AS uses both. Why the fuck use them if it's a proprietary technology for which you want licensing fees anyway?
Elegant would've been to replace the HTTP overhead with something a bit more specialised. Elegant would've been not to use a terrible markup language such as XML, which is far more verbose than it has to be due to the W3C's indecisiveness in its development. Even fucking YAML is better than XML as far as I'm concerned; you dislike these "open" committees so much, I probably dislike XML even more.
Unfortunately though, AS is also the only form of push email available in most places right now. Apple, Yahoo, Blackberry - none of them use any open standard or have any licensing in place. Most places that offer AS support in fact also run Exchange Server and that is a horrible piece of shit. Everything that AS offers is negated by the slowness of ES :/
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garus
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 19:10 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 19:19 Post subject: |
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Well technically it's not a markup language like XML, but if you were to use it as a messaging format it's too sensitive as far as line breaks and indenting goes. It's good for how it's used in Ruby and PHP nowadays, but as a messaging format it's inferior even to something as simple JSON for example. Too much ambiguity.
To clarify why I'm going against AS so much btw Leo, it's just that I understand where Google is coming from. They're paying MS licensing fees for just a part of their userbase; I'm willing to bet that 90% of their GMail users either use it on Android, on the web interface or in a desktop Email client via IMAP. Unfortunately for you (and me, considering I have 5 Google accounts set up on my iPad) that means iOS users get shafted. Sadly there is no decent alternative either, there is nothing out there besides Exchange that is capable of PUSH and is not limited to a single platform. Every email client on every platform supports Exchange, but not a single one of them supports the Yahoo/Apple/Blackberry/Whatever variants except on those companies' devices and implementations. What's worse is that Blackberry is in fact the most viable of them all; Yahoo is just shit all around and while Apple claims CalDav/CardDav for the non-email parts, they don't follow the standards and as such requires plugins for everything to work flawlessly.
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LeoNatan
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Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 21:03 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | That does not make it elegant and again, data-wise it's no better than IMAP due to the retarded overhead (in comparison). It builds on top of HTTP and XML, neither of which are particularly elegant; especially XML is not. Email aside, the other parts of AS are barely different from their Dav counterparts. You can hate them all you like, but AS is in fact based on all of the IETF's standards. HTTP and Dav are both open standards by the same committee and AS uses both. Why the fuck use them if it's a proprietary technology for which you want licensing fees anyway?
Elegant would've been to replace the HTTP overhead with something a bit more specialised. Elegant would've been not to use a terrible markup language such as XML, which is far more verbose than it has to be due to the W3C's indecisiveness in its development. Even fucking YAML is better than XML as far as I'm concerned; you dislike these "open" committees so much, I probably dislike XML even more.
Unfortunately though, AS is also the only form of push email available in most places right now. Apple, Yahoo, Blackberry - none of them use any open standard or have any licensing in place. Most places that offer AS support in fact also run Exchange Server and that is a horrible piece of shit. Everything that AS offers is negated by the slowness of ES :/ |
What the fuck you talking about? XML? Verbose? WBXML is as compact as it can be because there is no overhead - all the overhead is removed during building of WBXML. You must have read the wrong spec.
Also, in case you didn't read it, they will continue support for WAS with the Google Apps accounts, which means they would pay the same license fee as before. It's purely economical bullshit move by Google to have everyone who needs it to move to paid Google Apps subscription. Fuck them and fuck the standards. Surprise surprise, everyone support EAS - almost every device supports it, and it is standard. Before killing something, make sure you have an alternative.
Also, Yahoo and Apple use proprietary protocols? They use IMAP+IDLE for their push. iCloud is IMAP.
Also good luck finding a better "horrible piece of shit" than Exchange.  |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 21:19 Post subject: |
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| LeoNatan wrote: | | What the fuck you talking about? XML? Verbose? WBXML is as compact as it can be because there is no overhead - all the overhead is removed during building of WBXML. You must have read the wrong spec. |
back at ya, WBXML is still XML. And yes, XML is very verbose. Sure, they make it binary, but it's still XML underneath.
| Quote: | | Also, in case you didn't read it, they will continue support for WAS with the Google Apps accounts, which means they would pay the same license fee as before. It's purely economical bullshit move by Google to have everyone who needs it to move to paid Google Apps subscription. Fuck them and fuck the standards. Surprise surprise, everyone support EAS - almost every device supports it, and it is standard. Before killing something, make sure you have an alternative. |
Missed that, fuck that indeed.
| Quote: | | Also, Yahoo and Apple use proprietary protocols? They use IMAP+IDLE for their push. iCloud is IMAP. |
Eh, nope 
They use IMAP IDLE, which is an IMAP command. The actual pushing however is not P-IMAP (Push extensions for IMAP) but proprietary crap. Yahoo does some UDP magic, last I checked MobileMe used XMPP. Obviously, maybe Apple changed things now that MobileMe no longer exists.
| Quote: | | Also good luck finding a better "horrible piece of shit" than Exchange. |
Something better than that server software? Just about any of the popular (closed or open, doesn't matter) MTAs. They're all faster than Exchange when it comes to processing incoming email and dealing with the data. Granted, I don't know if 2010 or 2013 improve things; last true Exchange server I worked with was version 2007, but that is extremely heavy on resources and deals with its data far too slow. |
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| Posted: Sat, 15th Dec 2012 22:21 Post subject: |
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1 world problems
my nigger across the street said water from a well was better
then
from tap
that has to be filtered by space tech
you lose all the vitamins in the water that way
true shit right there
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