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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 00:52 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: | | Weducks wrote: | | they would have used anything to win. |
You mean like dropping two nuclear bombs on innocent civilians? |
Naw man, they would have sent suicide ninja's  |
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 01:24 Post subject: |
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They were developing bio agents and would have used them.
Did any of you brain wizards know that the japs send bombs in air balloon that crossed the ocean and end up killing a few children over in the US. If they had nukes they would have used them on everyone, they were allies to the Nazis. let us not forget this fact, they were partners with Hitler.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 01:27 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | They were developing bio agents and would have used them.
Did any of you brain wizards know that the japs send bombs in air balloon that crossed the ocean and end up killing a few children over in the US. If they had nukes they would have used them on everyone, they were allies to the Nazis. let us not forget this fact, they were partners with Hitler. |
Lets not forget the allies were partner with Stalin.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 01:35 Post subject: |
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Anything to stay alive, what don't you understand? Kill them before they kill you.
What side was Sweden on? you all sound like you were with Hitler.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 01:42 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | Anything to stay alive, what don't you understand? Kill them before they kill you.
What side was Sweden on? you all sound like you were with Hitler. |
Dude, first off, the US didnt give a fuck about hitler till japan attacked pearl harbour and japan and germany became allies...then they got involved in the european front
the war had been going on for 3 years prior to pearl harbour and the us gettin involved |
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 01:48 Post subject: |
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And where the fuck was Canada? Hypocritical bastards here.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 02:23 Post subject: |
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This topic is about the bombs USA dropped on Japan, not about the entire world war.
And no one has given me any argument to support that targeting civilians was even remotely ethical/right/good.
I honestly doubt that there even is one, seeing how most people who defend the bombings just dodge the fact that targeting civilians, no matter what, is wrong.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 02:28 Post subject: |
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They all would have fought to the death in the name of the emperor. That is the only reason we need.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 02:33 Post subject: |
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On September 3rd, Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declared war on Germany. On September 4th, Britain’s Royal Air Force began its first attacks on German warships. The next day, the United States made an announcement declaring its neutrality.
On September 9th, it was learned that two Canadian women were on the unarmed ocean liner, SSAthenia,” which had been sunk by German U-boats. The next day, Canada declared war on Germany independently.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 02:38 Post subject: |
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targetting civillians is morally wrong, morally no one can say otherwise. But then on the other hand the atomic bombs brought a swift and prompt end to something that could have caused years of bloodshed. Go to the war cemetrys from world war 2. See the sheer amount of graves there. Take a minute to reflect on it, because in 1945 facing a war that could last for many years sending young men into the fray and almost effectivly killing a generation of people the choice didnt seem so bad. Morally its wrong, to us with our molly coddled lives we can sit here in our chairs and protest and bicker and debate over the bombs til our fingers hurt and our eyes burn out. In 1945 i'm sure the decision was simple..it works, its the best weapon we have use it and let the youth of tomorrow debate over our decisions.
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 02:52 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | | And where the fuck was Canada? Hypocritical bastards here. |
OMFG...buddy, that is by far the stupidest thing to come out of ur mouth yet. We fought the germans since the very beginning 1939 with the british, we liberated holland, we were the first ppl in japan, 300 canadian infantry which cleared the way for an american infantry division, our army was the ONLY volunteer army in the war and the list goes on, canada and the brits saved ur ass at omaha beach as well, we flanked em from behind cuz we got through our obj's....man, u proved everyone's point, americans no nothing about FACTUAL history |
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 03:45 Post subject: |
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How many? 1000 men? Damn you saved the world.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 04:42 Post subject: |
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| dvsone wrote: | | But then on the other hand the atomic bombs brought a swift and prompt end to something that could have caused years of bloodshed. |
The first bomb brought an end to the war with Japan, the second one was to "seal it in the sand" they said. Two hundred thousand innocent lives paid for the speculative "could've"-scenario, lives that (like I've said before) the USA had no right to use as bargain-chips. No one knows what would happen, had they not dropped the atomic bombs - let's say 50´000 american soldiers more had died, and Japan would've capitulated? Would it still be worth it? 100´000 lives? 200´000? Are 200´000 american soldiers worth the same as 200´000 innocent civilian japanese? Less? More?
It does not matter, targeting civilian lives is always wrong, no matter if the definitive outcome is peace, because you can NEVER know for sure.
If Japan were the crazy fanatics everyone label them to be, then why did they simply not continue the war? They didn't lose many soldiers, and could have increased motive (to be even more fanatical).
It's a damn bargain, "drop two nuclear bombs at civilian lives and let's hope this happens - oh, it did! Great! This is the best thing we've done! What a strategical victory!"
---
I'm starting to counter the same arguments again and again here, please come up with something new, or just admit it.
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 04:45 Post subject: |
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You admit you are only an anti-American paranoid freak. I hope your little country goes to war soon, lets see how fast your are to enlist, brave man.
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-=Cartoon=-
VIP Member
Posts: 8823
Location: South Pacific Ocean
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 05:55 Post subject: |
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"If Japan were the crazy fanatics everyone label them to be, then why did they simply not continue the war? They didn't lose many soldiers, and could have increased motive (to be even more fanatical). "
America were already carpet bombing japan by that time... and they still had a will to fight....
The nukes did do exactly what america wanted.. it stopped the war..
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Rofl_Mao
Posts: 3187
Location: Nederland
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 07:33 Post subject: |
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no flaming, don't brng yourself down to that level
| Lopin18 wrote: | I think you played too much Fallout 3, Pedo Perk acquired.  |
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Phluxed
VIP Member
Posts: 4911
Location: Oakville, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 09:48 Post subject: |
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A majority of british pilots were canadian born, as well as many of the british navy. We weren't a major military force in the world, and still are not, but we understand the need to protect our own and to fight the right war, not just fight war.
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Jenni
Banned
Posts: 9526
Location: England.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 10:08 Post subject: |
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No, the majority of British pilots were English born and bred.
Not that I disrespect Canada one bit. They were there shoulder to shoulder with the British force from the begining.
Remember Dieppe anyone?
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Mutantius
VIP Member
Posts: 18594
Location: In Elektro looking for beans
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 10:36 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | They were developing bio agents and would have used them.
Did any of you brain wizards know that the japs send bombs in air balloon that crossed the ocean and end up killing a few children over in the US. If they had nukes they would have used them on everyone, they were allies to the Nazis. let us not forget this fact, they were partners with Hitler. |
It's nice to see that you were in the higher ranks of the japanese army and administration in the mid 40's, get freakin, real.
"Why don't you zip it, Zipfero?" - fraich3
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 10:41 Post subject: |
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then they would have to sed them balloons on a day the wind wont turn which is unlikely and it will be like nerve gas in the first ww. throw the nerve gas grenade, the wind turns, problems.
highly unlikely
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nouseforaname
Über-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 16:23 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | | How many? 1000 men? Damn you saved the world. |
you're pretty fucking ignorant eh?
| Quote: | | Of a population just over 11 million more than one and a half million Canadians served in the Second World War. Of these more than 45,000 gave their lives, and another 55,000 were wounded. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_in_World_War_II
asus z170-A || core i5-6600K || geforce gtx 970 4gb || 16gb ddr4 ram || win10 || 1080p led samsung 27"
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 16:47 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It was them or us, Millions of American troops would have died to conquer japan. Regular bombs would have killed more people. Funny the Japanese understand this more than you fools. |
Many of you tell this to justify the killing of more than 330000 civilians.
Did they really still tell you that in school?!
OMG
I will try to bring some facts into this discusion.
Even many scientists who worked in the Manhatten project wished that the bomb would have never been used.
One possibility would have been to show the might of the bomb in a demonstration on a testground - many believed that this would have led to an end of this war.
But president Truman had other plans.
He wanted to show the world the might of the bomb - no matter how many lives this would cost.
300000 more dead civilians - who cares; they already killed ~100000 in Tokyo before they dropped the Bombs.
One important fact that can explain the motivation of the USA (and also shows that the legend about the 500000 saved amarican lives is lie; plain and simple) is written down in Trumans diary - you can look it up yourself:
| Quote: | | "He'll [Stalin and Russia] be in the Jap War on August 15th. Fini Japs when that comes about." |
later that day he wrote:
| Quote: | | "...I've gotten what I came for - Stalin goes to war [against Japan] August 15 with no strings on it. He wanted a Chinese settlement [in return for entering the Pacific war, China would give Russia some land and other concessions] - and it is practically made - in a better form than I expected. [Chinese Foreign Minister] Soong did better than I asked him. I'll say that we'll end the war a year sooner now, and think of the kids who won't be killed! That is the important thing." |
the kids who won`t be killed... that is just to pathetic...
The only reason was that they wanted a better basis for the negotiations with russia after this war ended - and of course vengance for pearl harbour.
The bombings were a very clear ignoring of the Haager conventions and a offence against international law.
At the point of the bombings the japanese already almost agreed to an unconditional surrender.
The only argument for the hardliners in japan were the whereabouts of the emperor.
You must know, that the emporer was somewhat holy for them these days.
But the US didn`t want to negotiate, although they were fully aware of that circumstance.
One could think they didn`t want Japan to surrender at that point...
What happend everyone knows.
TWO bombs on Japanese towns.
Almost ONLY CIVILIANS died.
And if that isn`t bad enough - dont worry - it comes worse:
The research for the effects that xrays have on the human body was urgently in 1945.
So guess what?!
The didn`t helped the millions of people who became radioactively contaminated after the war ended.
although they could - they choose to just wait and watch.
So please don`t always believe the shit you get told by your own government.
Its relativly simple to get the facts straight, even if you only read official sources.
A good one to start is Trumans diary and there are plenty of military reports available that clearly tell a very different thing about Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the publicity was told in the USA after 1945.
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fisk
Posts: 9145
Location: Von Oben
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 22:53 Post subject: |
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Thank you AwE.
But unfortunately, most of the americans on this forum will never take a step back and see anything but "America is teh best! Our government can do no wrong".
Yes, yes I'm back.
Somewhat.
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 23:00 Post subject: |
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 23:19 Post subject: |
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| fisk wrote: |
But unfortunately, most of the americans on this forum will never take a step back and see anything but "America is teh best! Our government can do no wrong". |
Very very very true man |
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 23:30 Post subject: |
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| SycoShaman wrote: | | fisk wrote: |
But unfortunately, most of the Canadians on this forum will never take a step back and see anything but "Canada is teh best! Our government can do no wrong". |
Very very very true man |
dito
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu, 11th Aug 2005 23:32 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | | SycoShaman wrote: | | fisk wrote: |
But unfortunately, most of the Canadians on this forum will never take a step back and see anything but "Canada is teh best! Our government can do no wrong". |
Very very very true man |
dito |
thats the stupidest attempt at humour and sarcasim I have ever seen.
I dont understand why u cant see ur own ignorance...not even american ignorance is as bad as urs...ur like one of them special americans who makes the rest look even worse...man, do ur country and urself a favour and shut ur mouth from time to time |
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Aug 2005 00:08 Post subject: |
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Who cares what you 20 people think about America?
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SycoShaman
VIP Master Jedi
Posts: 24468
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Aug 2005 00:13 Post subject: |
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| Weducks wrote: | | Who cares what you 20 people think about America? |
MY POINT EXACTLY....so why do u get so heated and do nothing but insult ppl |
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| Posted: Fri, 12th Aug 2005 00:19 Post subject: |
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only you that insult me/my country. You all need to get off your high Horse. It is easy to talk so smart, but never get off your ass to do anything about any world problems.
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