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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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 Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 19:50 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 20:31 Post subject: |
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zomg teh illuminati 
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 20:35 Post subject: |
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Przepraszam
VIP Member
Posts: 14496
Location: Poland. New York.
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 20:36 Post subject: |
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[sYn]
[Moderator] Elitist
Posts: 8374
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 20:47 Post subject: |
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Everyone should forgive everyone else's debt so every country can start at big fat 0 
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 20:57 Post subject: |
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how come japan is doing fine with so much debt?
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 21:21 Post subject: |
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GDP is hard to accurately measure so it's not very correct.
GDP <-> national debt ratio is also not a valid comparison. Technically you can correlate between GDP and government revenue but it's far from the same thing. If the debt interest rates are lower than the countries expenditures the countries economy will still grow.
A lot of the debt is invested in further economic growth and will pay itself off in the future. (Obviously not all of it, and it has been getting out of hand lately)
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 21:48 Post subject: |
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Raccoon
Posts: 3160
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 22:40 Post subject: |
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What's so funny about it?
"Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world there is a duck watching you."
Fuck Polish government for oppressing women!
"People are such awful conversationalists that they’ll interrupt you when you’re answering a question they asked."
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 22:43 Post subject: |
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Raccoon
Posts: 3160
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Sat, 10th Nov 2012 23:44 Post subject: |
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What isn't true? The fact that countries can run up a debt to invest the money into economy to stimulate its growth?
If the government knows what they're doing it's perfectly possible.
"Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world there is a duck watching you."
Fuck Polish government for oppressing women!
"People are such awful conversationalists that they’ll interrupt you when you’re answering a question they asked."
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couleur
[Moderator] Janitor
Posts: 14335
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 00:05 Post subject: |
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It does only work in a closed economy.
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment."
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spankie
VIP Member
Posts: 2958
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 00:21 Post subject: |
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the only reason russia has no debt is because all the oil is state controlled... Same for libya, australia (metal resources) etc..
and why is everybody shitting on the politicians and the debt? You guys elected those folks and believed the fairy tale stories...
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nouseforaname
Ãœber-VIP Member
Posts: 21306
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 00:47 Post subject: |
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The idea that education and training (where at least some of that money goes) is not a good investment is a bit of a fucked up thing to think...
asus z170-A || core i5-6600K || geforce gtx 970 4gb || 16gb ddr4 ram || win10 || 1080p led samsung 27"
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 04:59 Post subject: |
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| spankie wrote: | the only reason russia has no debt is because all the oil is state controlled... Same for libya, australia (metal resources) etc..
and why is everybody shitting on the politicians and the debt? You guys elected those folks and believed the fairy tale stories... |
Lybiia isnt state controlled since the war... wonder why....
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 08:43 Post subject: |
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Dont worry, now that Lybia has been "liberated", it will accumulate huge amounts of debts, from which it can never recover and enslaves it absolutely.
Oh and the other BS i really just can laugh at.
| Quote: | What isn't true? The fact that countries can run up a debt to invest the money into economy to stimulate its growth?
If the government knows what they're doing it's perfectly possible. |
Biggest lie ever told by capitalist governments and you have to be mighty ignorant to believe that to be true rofl.
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 09:39 Post subject: |
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Give me some proof why its a lie and maybe I won't think you're just another conspiracy theorist nutjob.
My proof is in the thousand of economists in the world. But maybe all of them are in the fists of some higher organization? Or maybe they're just not as smart as you to realize the governments are actually just moving that money around for some higher evil purpose?
Maybe once the debt accumulates enough they're gonna sell Earth to aliens? ZOMG
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 09:54 Post subject: |
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| BearishSun wrote: | Give me some proof why its a lie and maybe I won't think you're just another conspiracy theorist nutjob.
My proof is in the thousand of economists in the world. But maybe all of them are in the fists of some higher organization? Or maybe they're just not as smart as you to realize the governments are actually just moving that money around for some higher evil purpose?
Maybe once the debt accumulates enough they're gonna sell Earth to aliens? ZOMG |
How is that proof ? Other then them being always wrong about anything. Dude, you must live in a mighty pretty dreamworld, if you really think what you type here rofl.
The whole world is on the brink of collapse financially and you defend the very system that brought it there ? LOL.
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 10:01 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | BearishSun wrote: | Give me some proof why its a lie and maybe I won't think you're just another conspiracy theorist nutjob.
My proof is in the thousand of economists in the world. But maybe all of them are in the fists of some higher organization? Or maybe they're just not as smart as you to realize the governments are actually just moving that money around for some higher evil purpose?
Maybe once the debt accumulates enough they're gonna sell Earth to aliens? ZOMG |
How is that proof ? Other then them being always wrong about anything. Dude, you must live in a mighty pretty dreamworld, if you really think what you type here rofl.
The whole world is on the brink of collapse financially and you defend the very system that brought it there ? LOL. |
Did you really just criticise the expert opinion of thousands of economists who are all in agreement, whilst simultaneously continuing to provide absolutely zero evidence of your own?
Yes, yes you did.
Also, the national debt didn't cause the economic crisis, it was the result of the crisis.
| chiv wrote: | | don't quote me on that |
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 11:10 Post subject: |
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ignorance is bliss.
and thats what i think of your so-called experts :
http://investingcaffeine.com/2012/07/08/experts-vs-dart-throwing-chimps/
And ps, my proof is the state of the worlds economies and debts etc today. SHOW ME PROOF THAT YOU'RE RIGHT INSTEAD.
And no "thousands of economist experts" does not count as proof for anything. Why would it ?
Must be pretty sweet to live in your bubble of self illusion lol.
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fraich3
Posts: 2907
Location: Not from my mouth!
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 11:19 Post subject: |
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| Invasor wrote: | | how come japan is doing fine with so much debt? |
Its because the debt financing in Japan is mostly financed by the country and its Keiretsu system itself.
FYI US debt after WW2 was above 100% of GDP, think it was around 112% or something. Which was double than it is now. Back then money was spend before and during WW2 which helped take the country out of rescission, and build the economy, mostly manufacturing economy, that would become the worlds largets in the following decades. In my opinion the new growing debt % isn't to be worried about to much, the US will never default. What should be on peoples mind isn't the debt numbers, but rather the ideological and political purposes that the money will be spent on. People should be looking 10-20-30 years into the future, not 5 years from now and having a debt % of 10%.
Also house budet not equal a national budget. If you think about it for 5 min, like really think about it makes little sense. The US economy, and the global economy is weak, states have to support them in their downturn best way possible. Deficits are an effect not a cause.
"Zipfero is the biggest fucking golddigger ever" - Mutantius
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 11:21 Post subject: |
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| fraich3 wrote: | | Invasor wrote: | | how come japan is doing fine with so much debt? |
Its because the debt financing in Japan is mostly financed by the country and its Keiretsu system itself.
FYI US debt after WW2 was above 100% of GDP, think it was around 112% or something. Which was double than it is now. Back then money was spend before and during WW2 which helped take the country out of rescission, and build the economy, mostly manufacturing economy, that would become the worlds largets in the following decades. In my opinion the new growing debt % isn't to be worried about to much, the US will never default. What should be on peoples mind isn't the debt numbers, but rather the ideological and political purposes that the money will be spent on. People should be looking 10-20-30 years into the future, not 5 years from now and having a debt % of 10%.
Also house budet not equal a national budget. If you think about it for 5 min, like really think about it makes little sense. The US economy, and the global economy is weak, states have to support them in their downturn best way possible. Deficits are an effect not a cause. |
ehm, its @ 108% right now , the above numbers where from 2-4 years back. So ...
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 11:24 Post subject: |
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So why should I believe you (or any other internet economy guru) over real life experts? This is a question btw, not trolling.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 11:29 Post subject: |
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click the link i posted and thats why you shouldnt believe in any "expert" "predicting anything".
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 14:08 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | click the link i posted and thats why you shouldnt believe in any "expert" "predicting anything". |
Well I have actually taken the time to read what this Kahneman is about (I doubt you did the same), his research/ideas do not support your "experts know shit" idea. You really should take time to read more about what you want to say before doing it. Linking to one biased blog does not make something true or official. Again, I am not trolling just pointing out something I see frequently.
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Invasor
Moderator
Posts: 7638
Location: On the road
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 16:32 Post subject: |
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Cleaned the topic a bit, this isn't the void! Either discuss properly or stay out.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Sun, 11th Nov 2012 16:50 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | Sin317 wrote: | | click the link i posted and thats why you shouldnt believe in any "expert" "predicting anything". |
Well I have actually taken the time to read what this Kahneman is about (I doubt you did the same), his research/ideas do not support your "experts know shit" idea. You really should take time to read more about what you want to say before doing it. Linking to one biased blog does not make something true or official. Again, I am not trolling just pointing out something I see frequently. |
its about him saying, that experts come to conclusions faster by using shortcuts (biases. etc) but fail more often then a chimp throwing darts would. If you actually read what experts PREDICT and then you check if they've been right or wrong, you'd see, that MORE OFTEN THEN NOT they were wrong. People think experts are good at something, because they can talk shitloads about things past (hindsight), which obviously they should know about (its their field of expertise, afterall.)
But its like someone who studied History for example. Just because you know the complete history of mankind from A to Z, does NOT mean you can predict JACKSHIT about the future.
Also, not get away further from the topic. It was about the current US Budget and its budget cuts and the further indebtment. The US is only an example here, since it applies to pretty much every country in the world. Every Country in the world is running on this system of "borrowing from the future", ruining the future generations into oblivion.
Aslong as we paying interests for the money we use (national banks), its mathematicly impossible, to ever come into the "black".
We already see the beginning of the end. The EU (especially the EURO) was put into place, to fasten the ruin of every nation in it. The EURO was introduced to stop deflation and devaluation of curreny and bring stability into the EU Zone. It did the contrary. It ruined all of Europe in a mere 10 years. VERY country in the EU is about to go bankrubt.
And its all caused by the flawed banking system (fractional banking, national banking), yet people keep defending it for some reason, because they are so scared of changing anything, they rather dont change at all.
And everybody who says anything about it, gets dismissed as a "just another conspiracy theorist nutjob". The Buzz word of the 21th century .... Cant argue, oh lets just call him "conspiracy theorist nutjob".
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