It's based on what I know and what I've seen. It's an estimate.
Personally, I see no worth in it whatsoever - but I'm trying to be objective about it.
I think BG with mods is pretty much perfect for what I want from a modern BG, and it's not a problem to install it.
Again, 10$ would tell me they're trying to be fair - and they'd sell a lot more copies. Even if "pure" BG is 10$ at GoG - that doesn't mean the price is right. If the current market tells us anything, it's that people are going crazy when things are on sale.
20$ is an obvious cash grab - unless they're hiding something fantastic, which is highly unlikely. Also, I think they'll end up with a lot less money because of the higher tag.
Whatever you say, Kanint. It's a $20 community bugfix with some "additions" that, IN MY OPINION, aren't worth the price of admission. Whether you agree with that or not is your prerogative, just don't sit there and act smug and mighty just because you don't like that people aren't fapping themselves raw over a cash-in on the iPad with the PC being an afterthought.
Seriously? I simply directed you to know more about the game before passing judgement and all of a sudden you make me look like I'm "smug and mighty" and want people to fap themselves?
You're not being logical. You're misrepresenting me. You're not actually using arguments.
sabin1981 wrote:
Oh and my deepest apologies for only saying "one" character, yes.. there's three. And one "arena" based addon. Joy(!) Yes, it's double the price since this is the PC version we're talking about --- it's a port of the iPad version yet costs double the price.
You're mixing up what you said previously.
sabin1981 wrote:
Look, fine, we get it. You're in love. Good for you, I'm HAPPY for you (no sarcasm either) - just accept that there are still some people who aren't bowled over by the magnificent accomplishment of bug fixing a 14 year old game, adding high resolution display and a trio of extra characters.
I don't care at all about whether people like the game or not. I'm not even that interested in it.
What I care about is people being ignorant about it and talking crap because of this.
If you don't care about the game, fine. If you don't like the game, fine.
But do it because you actually KNOW what they do and dislike it.
Not because you don't know what they do and still hate what they do.
And stop trying to diminish what I say by pretending I'm blind to what they do. I'm not.
Or that I'm pretending people can't disagree with what they do. That's absolutely false.
Actually use truth and arguments, not names or fabrications.
That's why I actually correct the mistakes you've said and direct you (and anyone else) to actually read on the game.
I've used truths, everything I've posted (and I already apologised for saying "one" character and not "three") is FACT. I am using truth, not fabrications, you're the one taking exception to it for reasons I simply don't know -- so instead I'm choosing to interpret your reasons as defensive against the product. I dislike the game based on what I know. You've corrected no mistakes of mine because, aside from the character, I've made no mistakes.
To me it seems weird that people praise GOG for releasing games compatible with modern systems (which isn't a terrible amount of effort, most of the time they are applying fan made patches and cracks as they don't have access to the source code - not their fault) and re-buying their games for "convenience man, click install and play!" (which IS convenient, and I love what GOG does!) but this gets slammed because "eh, yeah, it's a little more convenient than installing all those mods, but who cares, you can't double click?" when they actually did put some effort (reworked source code, art, etc).
Seeing how BG is $10 on GOG, I think a fair price for this would be between $15-20, and this is $20, so I really can't see how the company did SO bad.
Would people be fine with it if it was $15? To me it seems like even if it was $10 they would STILL complain for some weird reason I cannot understand
I'm pretty sure if I asked people what price they think is acceptable for this they'd say something like $5! or even "$0, I'm not paying for this shit", yet if I asked them what they think of the price of the original 14 year old build on GOG ($10), they'd say it's fine.
Of course for people that DO own the game already, this rerelease is almost worthless. But for everyone else; I don't see what they did SOOO wrong.
But that's just me.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
To me it seems weird that people praise GOG for releasing games compatible with modern systems (which isn't a terrible amount of effort, most of the time they are applying fan made patches and cracks as they don't have access to the source code - not their fault) and re-buying their games for "convenience man, click install and play!" (which IS convenient, and I love what GOG does!) but this gets slammed because "eh, yeah, it's a little more convenient than installing all those mods, but who cares, you can't double click?" when they actually did put some effort (reworked source code, art, etc).
Seeing how BG is $10 on GOG, I think a fair price for this would be between $15-20, and this is $20, so I really can't see how the company did SO bad.
Would people be fine with it if it was $15? To me it seems like even if it was $10 they would STILL complain for some weird reason I cannot understand
I'm pretty sure if I asked people what price they think is acceptable for this they'd say something like $5! or even "$0, I'm not paying for this shit", yet if I asked them what they think of the price of the original 14 year old build on GOG ($10), they'd say it's fine.
Of course for people that DO own the game already, this rerelease is almost worthless. But for everyone else; I don't see what they did SOOO wrong.
But that's just me.
You have an active imagination. Have I said that GoG is great and they have fantastic prices?
No.
Who said that here?
In any case, I'd say BG vanilla should be priced at around 5$. Is it worth more to some people? Sure, but that's on them.
A modified and modestly enhanced version should take into account that there are FREE mods available that enhance the game significantly already.
So, for the "new content" they're adding - I'd say it's worth around 5$ - and that's because it seems really limited and will make a minimal impact on the overall experience.
But I'm not responding to you Casus. Note I didn't name or quote you.
edit I was writing "people", not Casus, not sabin1981, not any member in particular
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
Well you're certainly not responding to me either, since I never mentioned GOG I appreciate what this mod team are trying to do, but bugfixing and adding some minor content, labelling it "Enhanced! HD! Remake! LOLZ!", concentrating on the iPad, giving no clear information about the PC version -- and then chucking a $20 price tag on doesn't exactly make me feel like jumping for joy.
3 characters, 1 arena, "bugfixes" and some hand-drawn cinematics. Thanks, but no thanks. As VGA and Inter said earlier in the thread; if they'd actually put some effort into really "enhancing" and "remastering" the game, they'd get more respect, but charging $20 for a community bugfix patch with some minor content? Again, thanks but no thanks.
---- oh and no, this doesn't make me the bad guy, or a whiner, or any other adjective people want to throw at me
consolitis wrote:
edit I was writing "people", not Casus, not sabin1981, not any member in particular
I've used truths, everything I've posted (and I already apologised for saying "one" character and not "three") is FACT. I am using truth, not fabrications, you're the one taking exception to it for reasons I simply don't know -- so instead I'm choosing to interpret your reasons as defensive against the product.
You know you exaggerated and tried to simply dismiss me.
There was nothing mature by saying that I wanted people to "fap to the game", that I was "in love with it", or that I had a problem with people not liking it.
That's what I refer to when I said you used fabrications.
Instead of actually listening to what I was saying, you wanted to give the impression that I was a blind fanboy so you could discredit me and brush what I said aside. That's not an actual discussion. That's the problem I have with what you said about me. It was undeserved.
Meanwhile, the main reason why I told you to look at what they're doing is because your description of their work is incomplete and misses some pretty big changes. (Like actual improvements to how the game looks and sounds.)
I don't see why that's such a terrible thing to do and why it deserved disrespects like that.
But I'm not responding to you Casus. Note I didn't name or quote you.
edit I was writing "people", not Casus, not sabin1981, not any member in particular
What people? Can you tell us who said that GoG is so great and that BG enhanced is shit?
Lots of people praise GOG, everywhere on the internet, and here on the hump of course.
Lots of people on this thread say this is a rip off.
I'm not saying "this and that and the other" specific people/members praise GOG while they condemn this, I don't have a list, but I'm sure people that do this exist.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
You know you exaggerated and tried to simply dismiss me.
I never denied that. It's human nature to exaggerate when making a point and yes, I tried to dismiss you - just like you've dismissed others in this thread.
Quote:
There was nothing mature by saying that I wanted people to "fap to the game", that I was "in love with it", or that I had a problem with people not liking it.
Neither was it immature, it was a gross exaggeration based on your stance and tone towards perceived negativity surrounding the "remaster!"
Quote:
Instead of actually listening to what I was saying, you wanted to give the impression that I was a blind fanboy so you could discredit me and brush what I said aside.
I've listened to what you said. I disagree with it. The impression of you being a blind fanboy comes from your staunch defence of this team's "accomplishments" and YOUR brushing aside of any criticism. You're not a blind fanboy? Then I apologise and humbly suggest you take some of your own advice and stop brushing aside complaints as if they're inconsequential, as that makes you look like a blind fanboy.
Quote:
That's the problem I have with what you said about me. It was undeserved.
Just calling it as I saw it, as I exampled above.
Quote:
Meanwhile, the main reason why I told you to look at what they're doing is because your description of their work is incomplete and misses some pretty big changes. (Like actual improvements to how the game looks and sounds.)
Most of that doesn't affect the game whatsoever, since the team is working solely with the 14 year old original assets and, as such, the game will not look any better than it did originally. Nor will it sound any better. All this team has done is "tidy the sourcecode" (as it was put earlier in the thread) which sets the foundation and base for future fixes, most of which would be based around DLC (which has already been confirmed despite the game not even being out yet) and modding capability for others. Yes, I respect that they're tidying up the source and making the game more enhanced for modding .. but by their very own admission, nothing can be done for the original assets except "upscaling" () so, why should I care? What are we being expected to pay for?
*Based on the Throne of Baal engine* Okay and this does what for the end user that hasn't already been done via mods?
*Rebuilt Threading Model.* Again, this does what for the end user? Improve performance on a 14 year old game that already ran perfectly anyhow?
*Rebuilt Renderer* Wow.. so now it's OpenGL. Great! And... this does... what, exactly?
*Fixed up multiplayer.* Granted this sounds like a worthy fix. If you care about MP. Which I don't.
*Extensive bug fixing* On a 14 year old game. Thanks. Well worth $20. I guess you're paying for convenience since there have been countless fix packs and mods throughout the years. Perhaps Wesp5 is considering selling his insane Bloodlines fix packs for $10 now!
*Native high resolution support* So now we can play the game at 2560x1440 with the original 320x240 upscaled assets! GLORIOUS!
*OpenAL support* Again, convenience, it's a good "enhancement" but nothing that hadn't already been done via 3rd party tools such as ALchemy.
You know what.. I'm not going to bother going through the rest of the "enhancements" - it's mostly marketing speak anyhow. Yes, I respect what they're doing, I really do, I just don't think it's worth the money they're charging -- which, coupled with my distaste towards the way they've handled the pre-release information and the distinct and insulting lack of solid PC info (including the fact that we STILL HAVEN'T SEEN ANY FUCKING IMAGES OR VIDEOS!), just means that I have no faith in the company. When they announced "Baldur's Gate HD" I thought it was going to be marvellous! Classic game we all know and love, lovingly remade with HD assets and visuals. Instead we're getting what? The same game just running in a higher resolution and with some under-the-bonnet fixes that the majority of purchasers won't even know about, let alone see.
I honestly and truly apologise if my earlier comments offended you, I was being facetious and just making grand exaggerations to reinforce my points, but the fact is ... I don't care what Beamdog/Upscale Games (umm... sorry, I meant Overhaul Games) are doing, it's not enough to convince me it's worth buying. It's like a housing company trying to sell you a house that is identical to the one you have, only this time it has better designed foundations. You don't need it, you won't see it, but hey... it has to be worth the money, right?
They can't release any screenshots, because someone will put them next to the original game's screenshots with modded high resolution and they're gonna look the same at best.
And those video replacement are cheapass bullshit and look like kiddy shit imo
@Sabin
1) I don't dismiss every complaint. Only the complaints that were shown to be dubious.
I've personally shared complaints about the game myself on quite a few occasions, including in this thread.
You make me look like I refuse to see any negative opinion and that's just false. If you 'call them as you see it', maybe your vision is cloudy?
Either way, you're just not painting an accurate version of me.
2) To answer your question about why the new renderer is good : after the original BG, the engine was changed to support Hardware Acceleration. It was used for animations and spell effects but was broken on new PC. It would cause slowdowns, glitched graphics, stuff like that.
There's a few way to fix this, but they don't all work for everyone and can sometime be annoying to use. (Personally, I went with D3DWindower.)
The new renderer fixes those issues and uses Hardware Acceleration for the whole game. The new renderer also lets them add a few extra eye-candy to the game (like is mentioned lower down the page + some filtering not mentioned in there).
Also, many of the changes may seem like small improvements, but all of them together can come together to make for a smoother experience. Worth the extra 10$? Not necessarily, that's why I don't think the game is worth a full 20$ either. Not right now at least. Once I see the new adventures, that may change. I wouldn't mind paying 10$ for 20 hours of content if the stories are good, but that remains to be seen.
With that said, I DO agree that it doesn't mean much until they show screenshots showing the final product. That's one of my main complaints. Other big complaints of mine :
- Some of the features reserved for post-ship should have been part of the launch.
- I think they should have made a new engine instead of reworking the old one. I think the old one is gonna end up limiting them too much.
I think I said most of what I wanted to say, so the discussion has most likely reached its course for me. I don't want to keep hammering on the same points, since it's not like I completely disagree with you.
We'll be missing on those DX11 next-gen effects then.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
This is clearly a debate of people loving GOG against people Loving Beamdog and not people loving BG.
Hmm I am quite ambivalent towards GoG. It's cool that you can buy great old games from them without DRM. On the other hand I would like to see the original creators to get some benefits from these sales and that is not happening afaik. And btw this must be the single player game I spent most time on.
I would like to see the original creators to get some benefits from these sales and that is not happening afaik.
That has nothing to do with GOG, or any other distribution service. It would be no different if you bought a copy anywhere else. The nature of the industry means that usually a publisher holds all the distribution and IP rights, and thus any revenue as a result of future sales. The original developer got paid back when they made the game. It's only in rare instances that they would have some sort of royalty agreement.
If you feel that bad that Bioware aren't getting a cut of GOG BG sales, send them cash in an envelope or something. No doubt they'll really appreciate it. After all, I'm sure they are pretty strapped for cash after whoring themselves out to EA for a few hundred million.
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I appreciate what this mod team are trying to do, but bugfixing and adding some minor content, labelling it "Enhanced! HD! Remake! LOLZ!", concentrating on the iPad, giving no clear information about the PC version -- and then chucking a $20 price tag on doesn't exactly make me feel like jumping for joy.
) so, why should I care? What are we being expected to pay for?
