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JBeckman
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 Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 10:31 Post subject: |
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Hmm yes I believe I read somewhere that it initially used x87 code for the CPU and that was quite a problem with performance then and you are correct in what you say but 2.8.4 as far as I know was also about improving performance. 
EDIT: Yes, SSE2 support was added (Or just enabled.) with 2.8.4,2.
http://physxinfo.com/news/3744/physx-sdk-2-8-4-say-goodbye-to-system-software/
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Performance
Enabled /arch:SSE2 compiler switch for all optimized PC builds.
Optimized PS3 SPU Memory Manager
Optimized AgPerfmon AgPerfUtils wrapper
Optimized cloth simulation on PS3, XBOX 360, PC CPU
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EDIT: But it seems you are correct about the multi-threading as well, which would also have been a important performance improvement.
EDIT: Hmm.
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PC Games Hardware: When benchmarking Metro 2033 we found out that the engine utilized more than four cores of multicore CPUs if we were using the advanced PhysX effects on CPU, so you are utilizing Nvidias PhysX SDK 3.x? Will all the advanced PhysX effects only be available in PC version?
Oles Shishkovtsov: That’s the common misconception that PhysX 2.X cannot be multithreaded. Actually it is internally designed to be multithreaded! The only thing – it takes some programmer time to enable that multi-threading (actually task generation), mostly to integrate with engine task-model and ensure proper load-balancing. So, 2033 used PhysX 2.8.3, and Last Light uses similar, a slightly modified version at the time of writing. And yes, advanced PhysX effects will be available only on PC.
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EDIT: There's the SDK for what this game uses.
http://physxinfo.com/news/5971/physx-sdk-2-8-4-6-available/
(Which has indeed been customized further it seems since the SPU - fluids - are far different and improved upon.)
(And for 3.0 which indeed improves performance but it seems only fluids and particle effects can use HW acceleration but maybe that has changed since then - http://physxinfo.com/news/5671/physx-sdk-3-0-has-been-released/ and performance was further improved with 3.1 it seems - http://physxinfo.com/news/6312/physx-3-1-is-ready-for-download-introduces-public-binary-sdk-for-android/ )
EDIT: Anyway it's improving with every revision from bug fixes to performance enhancements though we actually haven't seen any game using 3.0 or higher from what I know, Metro: Last Light is rumored to use it but I don't think it's confirmed either.
And what else is there to say about Borderlands 2 before we sidetracked things a bit, not much that hasn't already been said that I can think of, it's a clear improvement of the first game in many areas but also has some of the downsides and ideally should be played via co-op though single-player is of course fully doable.
(And is how I'm going through the first playthrough of the game.)
Next up would be the Mechromancer class but that's still a month or so away (October 16th I think it was.) and then the first DLC some time later on, might be something in between with Gearbox and their "Shift" service which is part of the game but currently unusable.
Last edited by JBeckman on Thu, 20th Sep 2012 10:48; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 10:47 Post subject: ***** |
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*****
Last edited by Areius on Fri, 19th Sep 2025 16:10; edited 1 time in total
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JBeckman
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 10:50 Post subject: |
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In short, yes you can set PhysX to low, medium or high on any hardware configuration but the performance hit will be quite noticeable without a strong CPU.
(Compared to using CUDA via a Nvidia GPU.)
I'd recommend trying medium first but there is a noticeable difference for each of them albeit some situations are likely nearly unplayable with the high preset without proper hardware support.
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russ80
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Werelds
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:10 Post subject: |
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@ JB: 2.8 had the SSE compiler target, but no native multithreading; like the Metro developer says, it requires the programmer to manually manage these threads as well as compile with the SSE switch, which defeats the whole point of using middleware such as PhysX. End result: noone gives a fuck and almost noone uses it. With 3.0 it's all there by default as far as I know.
@ russ80: no, because there have been cases where you couldn't even enable PhysX to run on the CPU because of that money bag. That's what Areius is referring to and moves like that are indeed crap.
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sausje
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Location: Limboland, Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:17 Post subject: |
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Why do you think most proper benchmark programs that test physics have it disabled to be calculated on the GPU with an nvidia card? It's for a reason 
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:17 Post subject: ***** |
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*****
Last edited by Areius on Fri, 19th Sep 2025 16:10; edited 1 time in total
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sausje
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Werelds
Special Little Man
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:22 Post subject: |
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| Areius wrote: | | No, because there is no reason PhysX couldn't use OpenCL from AMD. |
Not entirely true (it's actually an Apple initiative, in collaboration with AMD, Intel, Nvidia). OpenCL is not as efficient as even DirectCompute, let alone CUDA. 1.2 puts it on par with DC, but CUDA still has an advantage over both. Part of that is due to Nvidia's negligence towards it though.
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:23 Post subject: |
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anyone tried hardcore mode yet?
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:23 Post subject: |
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Wouldn't mind physix on my ati, it doesn't do anything gameplay wise but it does add something.. sparkling wise 
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:27 Post subject: |
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| Maxxify wrote: | | Mister_s wrote: | | But what is a high number? The first gun I had already had an accuracy rating of 85. The gun I use now has a rating of 97 and bullets are still all over the place. |
The problem is that Tediore guns have the "gains accuracy as it fires" bonus which basically means their accuracy rating doesn't kick in until you've fired quite a bit, meaning they typically start out anything but accurate. Furthermore, the scope mode/iron sights also tends to have latent bonuses that can change this (such as multiple shots when zoomed), especially when in rapid fire mode (as recoil is not the same as accuracy). In general, accuracy is as someone else mentioned, that is the chance to hit where you are firing, which does NOT include stability of aim or recoil. These are secondary stats not shown on the item (afaik) and was the case in the first game, which makes finding the right gun all the more challenging (and 'fun'). But as I insinuated in my first sentence, you will notice that certain types of guns (brand + weapon type) do carry similar characteristics in these respects. |
Thanks that's clear. Trying the gun out seems to be better than looking at the stats.
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:39 Post subject: |
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Yup, this is using 2.8.4 PhysX and even on nVidia hardware it has absolutely pathetic performance hits, PhysX on "High" on my 570 causes framerate to drop like a motherfucker, right the way down to chuggy 40s in heavy action. Whereas PhysX 3.0 could have leveraged multithreading as well. This is done deliberately to sell the 6-series GPUs - typical shitty nVidia trick, as always.
Keep it on medium. Next to no performance hit and it actually looks BETTER than high because on high you get the laughably insulting jelly liquid. Open a toilet and get attacked by something out of a Chuck Russell movie. Shoot bandits and watch bright red jelly squirt out of them and pool on the floor like you were making a blancmange. I especially love the part where I shoot a wall and, hilariously, watch millions of huge chunks of concrete come flying out. There are some scenes where it looks good, such as the Phaselock "Debris Tornado" - that looks good on Medium though on High it cripples performance and then, again; hilariously, ends up littering the area with billions of particles and chunks of debris.
 Spoiler: | |
SO MUCH IMMERSION!! Cram it, nVidiots. 
(fixed typo)
Last edited by sabin1981 on Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:50; edited 1 time in total
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Sin317
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:41 Post subject: |
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its because AMD/Ati refused to cooperate with nvidia back then and still does. Dont blame nvidia for amd/ati's shortcomings and stupidities.
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sausje
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:49 Post subject: |
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| Sin317 wrote: | | its because AMD/Ati refused to cooperate with nvidia back then and still does. Dont blame nvidia for amd/ati's shortcomings and stupidities. |
Got source for that?
Proud member of Frustrated Association of International Losers Failing Against the Gifted and Superior (F.A.I.L.F.A.G.S)
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russ80
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Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:52 Post subject: |
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It's true. They offered physx and they refused.
Main PC : I7 12700, MSI Ventus RTX 4090 24gb, Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED
Laptop : I5 4200H @ 3400mhz boost, GTX 850m 2gb Vram DDR3, 4gb RAM DDR3
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JBeckman
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:53 Post subject: |
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There were some rumors a while back that Nvidia talked to ATI about PhysX implementation on their hardware but I don't see how it would have worked, Nvidia would lose one of their exclusive advantages and AMD would have to be co-operating with Nvidia, I don't see it working out.
(I believe Nvidia denied it but this was a few years back so I could be wrong.)
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:55 Post subject: |
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If anybody is playing in 1680x1050, what FOV are you using ? Default 90 feels like a 75 for me, juggling between 94 and 96, still can't decide what I like more
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:57 Post subject: |
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Man those pebbles are laughably bad....who the fuck compares the Physx bullcrap in this game with a fucking lamborghini...huahahhaaaaaaa
.....ohhahahaha.
Fuck i have a buddy who runs 2 680's and he turned the PissEX all the way to low cause it was pulling him out of the whole thing.
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Sin317
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 11:58 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | -Havok is a wholly owned subsidiary of Intel; AMD/ATI has no ownership interest or any influence of the IP at all. Intel simply used them as a pawn and strung them along with the hopes of an OpenCL Havok client (which was demonstrated at GDC, but still vaporware as of today).
At the time Havok was being tossed about as an alternative to PhysX, AMD claimed they did not want to support PhysX because they were opposed to "closed and proprietary" standards, yet they threw their support for Havok, which is you guessed it, a closed and proprietary standard. The announcement that they're now backing Bullet Physics is clearly backpedaling on their part and a slap in the face to those who supported them.
I think Icrontic and the various news outlets are asking the wrong questions. The real question should be, why doesn't AMD just support PhysX as it was originally offered? Why don't they just write a CUDA driver for their hardware? It seems this is just another case of AMD preferring to sit on their hands and reap the benefits of the hard work of others.
PhysX is just middleware with a bunch of backend APIs to help it interface various hardware, at some point I expect it to be ported to DirectCompute or OpenCL, but instead of waiting for these emerging technologies, Nvidia got it to work with CUDA.
References and backstory:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2008/12/11/amd-exec-says-physx-will-die/1
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38392/118/
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2324555,00.asp
http://www.bit-tech.net/custompc/news/602205/nvidia-offers-physx-support-to-amd--ati.html
In any case, sounds like you guys have an open dialogue with AMD, I just wish people would ask AMD the real questions instead of just taking their excuses at face value. We have one company producing real solutions and we have another company fighting a war of words in the press without anything to show on their end. Who really cares about physics and PC gamers?
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found this, basicly amd/ati tried to be smart and became intels bitches with havoc, just to prevent having anything to do with nvidia ...
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DaLexy
Posts: 3042
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:01 Post subject: |
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You and I have differing opinions on "smooth" -- 40 is chuggy, it's not smooth to me. What makes it worse is the up/down juddering -- constantly locked 40 would be bad but nowhere near as bad as 60>40>60>40>60>40, etc etc.
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DaLexy
Posts: 3042
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:05 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | You and I have differing opinions on "smooth" -- 40 is chuggy, it's not smooth to me. What makes it worse is the up/down juddering -- constantly locked 40 would be bad but nowhere near as bad as 60>40>60>40>60>40, etc etc. |
Its not like you mentioning it, i dont get always 40 fps with high, only in some rare cases ! Its mostly (90%) the time at 60 fps.
And when it drops to 40 fps its only for a splitsecond and then back to 60 fps.
Therefore i can easily live with it.
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russ80
Posts: 4679
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:07 Post subject: |
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| Shakabutt wrote: | Man those pebbles are laughably bad....who the fuck compares the Physx bullcrap in this game with a fucking lamborghini...huahahhaaaaaaa
.....ohhahahaha.
Fuck i have a buddy who runs 2 680's and he turned the PissEX all the way to low cause it was pulling him out of the whole thing. |
Sure you do buddy, and sure he did. The comparison was exagerated to prove a point but it seems it flew right above your head.
Jealousy can be smelled from miles away when it comes to these sort of things.
Physx in this game is sick, anyone who tried it can attest to that.
Last edited by russ80 on Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:10; edited 1 time in total
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DaLexy
Posts: 3042
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:15 Post subject: |
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| russ80 wrote: | | Shakabutt wrote: | Man those pebbles are laughably bad....who the fuck compares the Physx bullcrap in this game with a fucking lamborghini...huahahhaaaaaaa
.....ohhahahaha.
Fuck i have a buddy who runs 2 680's and he turned the PissEX all the way to low cause it was pulling him out of the whole thing. |
Sure you do buddy, and sure he did. The comparison was exagerated to prove a point but it seems it flew right above your head.
Jealousy can be smelled from miles away when it comes to these sort of things.
Physx in this game is sick, anyone who tried it can attest to that. |
I fully agree, the Video about PhysX on/off which was posted some pages ago doesnt offering the enjoyment ingame in action. You need to feel and see it alive.
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:16 Post subject: |
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Does anyone use a modified FXAA or SMAA for this?
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russ80
Posts: 4679
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Thu, 20th Sep 2012 12:17 Post subject: |
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Why would they ? Game has fxaa in it.. unless you want it for the colors?
Main PC : I7 12700, MSI Ventus RTX 4090 24gb, Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED
Laptop : I5 4200H @ 3400mhz boost, GTX 850m 2gb Vram DDR3, 4gb RAM DDR3
Derpsole : Playstation 5 disc edition, Ninty Switcherino
TV+audio: LG CX 65" / Sonos ARC + SL ones + Sonos sub 3
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