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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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 Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 12:01 Post subject: So, car shopping! |
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Like I said in my thread a couple of weeks ago (which I'm too lazy to go back and find  ), I've been looking for a new car. I've bought one now (picking it up wednesday) but it's not what I expected to go for.
I've given a lot of younger cars the benefit of the doubt, drove a whole ton of them and each of them suffers from two things: either they've got a fucking shit engine, or they've got a fucking shit engine with a turbo slapped on.
Result? I decided to look for slightly older cars, where proper engines were still acceptable. What I've tried and did or didn't like is below; keep in mind that I currently drive a 1.4 8v, 75 BHP, 120 Nm Peugeot 206. Numbers in parenthesis are BHP/torque.
2009 Ford Fiesta 1.6 16v "Sport" (120/145)
You'd think this would be quite a bit faster than my measly 206 right? Guess again. What a fucking piece of shit this is, really. First gear is lazy as hell, 2nd to 4th are okay but then 5th is ridiculously long again so you've got 0 power on the freeway. It's a pleasant ride otherwise, but Sport? No Ford, just, no.
I even drove a second one of these (a 2010 one in fact) to make sure it wasn't just a bad sample, but same shit there.
2008 Opel Corsa 1.4 16v Sport (90/125), 2009 1.6 GSI (150/210)
The 1.4 is just shit, period. Barely gets the car moving. The 1.6 GSI drives pretty well, but the turbo is not particularly reliable. More importantly (to me anyway) however, it doesn't actually handle very well; the chassis rolls around like crazy and the steering is very loose. Why Opel did that on what's supposed to be a hot hatch I don't get.
2009 and 2010 Alfa Romeo MiTo 1.4 Turbo (120/206 and 155/230 - there's 2 separate versions)
Oh my. Before I drove these, I knew I wasn't going to get them, because it's Italian and thus not reliable (sorry ixi  ). But I heard so many good things about them and fuck me, they do handle very well. The 120 BHP version is good, but the 155 BHP is a little pocket rocket - and they're both good on mileage. Also quite nice to look at, it's just such a damn shame it's Alfa Romeo. I don't know a single person who has/had Alfa and didn't have issues with it every couple of months.
2 x 2009 Mitsubishi Colt (109/145 and 180/???)
Now here's why I like Japs. They still know how to make cars.
Let me start with the regular 1.5L: accelerates slightly faster than my 1.4 8v as it should but fifth is quite long again, so by the time you get to 120-130, there's not much left. What it does do extremely well though, is handle. Steering is very direct, you get tons of feedback and despite its slightly higher center of gravity compared to other hatchbacks, it doesn't roll a lot, sticks to the road very well.
Now, the "other" one. Mitsubishi sell a Colt Ralliart, which is the 1.5L engine with a turbo slapped on; that puts it at 150 BHP and 210 Nm. Now the one I went to look at was tuned a bit further by its previous owner so it now sits around 180 BHP and fuck knows how much torque, most likely in the range of 260 Nm. Obviously, it goes like a fucking jet fighter. Without even pushing, I got to 100 in about 7 seconds; I'm pretty sure that it can actually do it in 6, as a standard Ralliart does it in 7.4 already. With the other tweaks it received, it also handled even better than the regular 1.5L I drove.
The reason I didn't go for it is because I don't know how it's been driven so far, and the dealership wasn't willing to give me any warranty on it. As much as I loved it, I'm not going to risk that, because most of the car wasn't standard anymore (different shocks, different stabilisers, chip tuned, and so on). It may very well have been pushed to its limits before and I don't want to end up replacing a ton of parts in a few months time.
2008 Peugeot 308 1.6 VTI (120/160)
Once again it shows that Peugeot do know their engines. Much better ride than the Fiesta or Corsa, with one little nag: once again a ridiculously long fifth gear. In lower gears it's much more enjoyable than the very similar Fiesta; gets away a bit quicker, a lot more responsive on the throttle throughout, but at 130 the fun stops again. Also, *much* better seats 
The funny part though? It's 300 Kg heavier than the Fiesta. No, sorry Ford, but damn that Fiesta sucks. You really need one of their beefed up versions (or perhaps the story's different for diesels) to have something that drives well.
(VTI doesn't stand for a turbo btw, it's VVT basically)
2012 Peugeot 208 1.6 VTI (120/160)
I just had to drive this. I love its looks and on the inside Peugeot (just like with the 308 above) are actually very luxurious nowadays. Even though it's got the same rough specs as the Fiesta and 308, this is where I really decided that I just had to go for something older with a bigger engine. The reason? It's quicker than both the Fiesta and the 308, handles better, MUCH more luxurious. It's the same engine as in the 308, but it's 240 Kg or so lighter and it's noticeable. It's still heavier than the Ford, so I don't know what Ford did, but it's not good.
Sadly, the 208 is more expensive than I'm willing to pay right now (just over 20 grand, it's not that I can't, but I won't because I've still got a student loan to pay off).
Besides the above I've looked at and test driven a ton of others, but they all had the same problem: too small and shit of an engine to actually do much.
End result? I ended up driving older, more interesting models with 2.0 16v's; I'm still not too keen on having a turbo do the work, because for that to work you need a really good one to have as little lag as possible and that's just again out of my budget. So, 2.0 16v's eh? Well you quickly end up with a 206 GTI (138/190) for example, which was brilliant. But then I went to have a chat with my local garage, to see if he had any suggestions on what to drive.
I ended up test driving a Golf Mk V 2.0 FSI he had there and that's exactly what I was looking for - it just drives very well. I knew the engine, as my parents bought a Touran with it a few years ago, but it never occurred to me that it would feel even better in a Golf. As a bonus, he actually gave me 2.5 grand for my 206 as well, which is more than any other dealership I asked. It's not a particularly interesting car to look at, but in the end I much prefer something that drives well over looks.
Most manufacturers really don't make engines like they used to anymore. 2.0's (or bigger) are reserved for the GTI versions, everything else is mostly 1.4 at most, and MAYBE they slap a turbo on it. Ford's 1.6 is a piece of crap, Peugeot's 1.6 is much better (but the 308 is too heavy for it, needs lighter cars). Turbo's are nice to play with, but to make it worthwhile you need something high-end so there's little lag, I still very much prefer naturally aspirated in "small" engines :/
Replacing the Golf some years from now is going to be hell, I hope they reduce the lag in these smaller engines somehow as well as making them more reliable.
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 12:08 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 12:15 Post subject: |
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It was 15 grand or so 
I don't want a big car though, but in a few years I might do; 2 Lancers near me for well under 15 and I have no doubt the 1800CC MIVEC in that does its job. Then again, a few years from now I'll be done paying off my student loan and my budget will be substantially higher 
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 12:20 Post subject: |
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Go find yourself a nice well looked after Galant... christ those things were solid.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 13:03 Post subject: |
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Ugly isn't the word, boring is. The upcoming Mk 7 brings a bit of finesse back in its design though
Ugly is the Peugeot 207 (205, 206 and 208 all look good in their own way, but the 207 is just butt ugly). Or the Nissan Juke (), most Citroens, new Renault Twingo.
None of them as bad is the Fiat Multipla though 
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 13:06 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 13:09 Post subject: |
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How much did you pay for the mark 5 again?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 13:19 Post subject: |
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After trade-in and some discounts, just 9 grand
Also getting brand new tyres; good thing since it's on 225/45r18 so they're not particularly cheap
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:19 Post subject: |
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15 grand.
Well, as with the other thread -
You can pickup something like a MPS 3, EVO IX, WRX, etc..
I think the choice is clear. Excellent daily drivers, fun, actually fast around the track if you choose to track them, and tons of power potential for minimum cost.
In all of these cars turbo lag is pretty much non-exsistant in stock form. Yes, you still have to wait until around 2500 RPM's or so, but the engines are running such high compression these days that you still have lots of power even without the boost. The MPS 3 in particular is running a 9.5:1 compression ratio stock. This is further increased to almost a 10:1 at lower RPM's due to variable intake timing. The DISI engine also has substantial stroke compared to other engines in this market, which helps out of boost, and which is why it makes so much torque coupled with the boost.
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:28 Post subject: |
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why the hate for turbo engines?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:30 Post subject: |
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5 of them on sale in the entire country, none within 100 Km, harder than you may think
2 8's available (18 and 20 grand), 2 10's (33 and 37 grand), no 9's. Again, harder than you think.
Bit easier to find, but again quite far away and the good ones are well over 15 grand.
We've been here before Mchart, the Dutch car market is fucked beyond belief. Simple example is an RS4 (friend of mine wanted one, which is how I know this ): 35 grand cheaper in Germany. That's how much our government taxes these things
And all of these are higher-end cars that do have decent turbo's; I'd get one of these if there was one within a reasonable distance, but in cheaper cars it's just a failure-prone part unfortunately.
Last edited by Werelds on Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:31; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:30 Post subject: |
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Can't you just buy the car in a different country?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:31 Post subject: |
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No, because then I have to pay import tax on top of all the other shit still.
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:32 Post subject: |
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Well.
Have fun with that shit.
I know in the UK you don't have to pay import taxes if the car is over 3 years old.
So in your country they force you to pay import taxes regardless?
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:54 Post subject: |
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| Mchart wrote: | | So in your country they force you to pay import taxes regardless? |
No, not import taxes per se. There's some regulations involved there (none age related though). Depending on who you buy from, it can be import tax free because it's a purchase within the EU. That doesn't negate all the other taxes however; there's "purchase tax" (not VAT), environment taxes and such.
So you can go "have fun with that shit" all you want (nice response that by the way), but it's not as easy as you think.
Last edited by Werelds on Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:54; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:54 Post subject: |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:54 Post subject: |
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Yep
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:55 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Mchart wrote: | | So in your country they force you to pay import taxes regardless? |
No, not import taxes per se. There's some regulations involved there (none age related though). Depending on who you buy from, it can be import tax free because it's a purchase within the EU. That doesn't negate all the other taxes however; there's "purchase tax" (not VAT), environment taxes and such.
So you can go "have fun with that shit" all you want (nice response that by the way), but it's not as easy as you think. |
I was saying 'have fun with that shit' as in; I'm glad i'm not you.
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 14:57 Post subject: |
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| Werelds wrote: | | Yep |
Quite a price difference, right?! |
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 15:01 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 17:24 Post subject: |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65085
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 18:14 Post subject: |
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Stay away from the Mito, it's a fancy overpriced time bomb, but you already know that 
(though the design is really nice ).
If I had to choose, I'd go for the 2012 Peugeot 208...but it's expensive indeed. :/
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 20:03 Post subject: |
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@ DR: I'd say the hot hatch term comes from the Renault 5 vs. Golf war, don't think there was anything else at the time. At least not until the glorious 205 GTI
@ ixi: yeah, the Mito looks brilliant, as does the Giuletta - and they look just as good on the inside.
I was really tempted to just not give a shit and get the 208, really was. But if I had done that I may as well had gone for an Evo, Impreza etcetera, so I decided to stick to what I told myself I'd stick to
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| Posted: Sun, 26th Aug 2012 23:21 Post subject: |
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peugeot 106 gti, the last great peugeot.
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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Werelds
Special Little Man
Posts: 15098
Location: 0100111001001100
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| Posted: Mon, 27th Aug 2012 00:45 Post subject: |
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It actually looked a little shorter than my 206 when I parked next to it (it's not though, 10 cm longer in fact). It's thanks to the subtle lines in the body, gives it a coupé feeling.
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kumkss
Posts: 4835
Location: Chile
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| Posted: Mon, 27th Aug 2012 19:12 Post subject: |
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what do you guys think about the Audi A1?
it in the same range of the cars posted by Werelds.
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