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 Posted: Wed, 1st Aug 2012 15:56 Post subject: I have left. |
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| Posted: Wed, 1st Aug 2012 16:08 Post subject: I have left. |
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| Posted: Wed, 1st Aug 2012 16:09 Post subject: |
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Like I said; I'm not against opensource .. I'm against the demands for software to BE opensource.
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| Posted: Wed, 1st Aug 2012 16:11 Post subject: I have left. |
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 07:53 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 10:09 Post subject: |
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Interesting.
They, I think, need to get some lawyers who specialise in UK/European law. If that guy had bought Worms from a store, his option for a refund would've ended as soon as he opened it up. Given he played the game and didn't like it, I'm not sure if Distance Selling Regulations give him the right to a refund; he certainly played it. And I was under the impression (willing to be corrected here) that the DSR came into play when the customer changed their mind, but before they used the item.
Pixieking
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ASUS P8P67 Evo - Intel i7 3770k - 2X4GB GSkill RipJaws X DDR3 1600 - HIS 7950 IceQ - Creative XtremeMusic Soundcard - NZXT Phantom 530 - Thermaltake Toughpower XT 675 - Win7 x64
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 10:30 Post subject: |
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| Pixieking wrote: | Interesting.
They, I think, need to get some lawyers who specialise in UK/European law. If that guy had bought Worms from a store, his option for a refund would've ended as soon as he opened it up. Given he played the game and didn't like it, I'm not sure if Distance Selling Regulations give him the right to a refund; he certainly played it. And I was under the impression (willing to be corrected here) that the DSR came into play when the customer changed their mind, but before they used the item. |
In EU buyer has the right to return digitally purchased (i.e online shop) product within 14 days whether it is used or not.
i5 6600k @ 4.3 GHz | MSI z170 Gaming M7 | 32GB Kingston HyperX Fury | 850 Evo 500GB | EVGA 1070 SC | Seasonic X-660 | CM Storm Stryker
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 15:28 Post subject: |
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| difm wrote: | | Pixieking wrote: | Interesting.
They, I think, need to get some lawyers who specialise in UK/European law. If that guy had bought Worms from a store, his option for a refund would've ended as soon as he opened it up. Given he played the game and didn't like it, I'm not sure if Distance Selling Regulations give him the right to a refund; he certainly played it. And I was under the impression (willing to be corrected here) that the DSR came into play when the customer changed their mind, but before they used the item. |
In EU buyer has the right to return digitally purchased (i.e online shop) product within 14 days whether it is used or not. |
To be precise, it's 14 working days.
But don't get any bright ideas about finishing games within that limit and returning them for free. The EU court has ruled in a dispute that the seller is allowed to claim a rental fee for the period the product was in your possession. If you local video stores rent new games for 2€ per day and you keep a game for 10 days, Valve can charge you 20€ for that.
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 15:48 Post subject: |
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Neon
VIP Member
Posts: 18935
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 15:50 Post subject: |
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Not the first time it happened. Steam was openly refunding GTA IV because of the horrid port.
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Ankh
Posts: 23349
Location: Trelleborg
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 15:52 Post subject: |
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Nice!
shitloads of new stuff in my pc. Cant keep track of it all.
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65086
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 16:09 Post subject: |
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With the incredible amount of bad ports and unfinished games that we have on PC, that move will generate a clusterfuck of refund requests 
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65086
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 16:24 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | ixigia wrote: | | With the incredible amount of bad ports and unfinished games that we have on PC, that move will generate a clusterfuck of refund requests |
Honestly? I think it's about time something like this was implemented directly, simply due to what you said; there are so many bad ports, often with the developer not giving a crap about the PC and offering no after-sale support in the way of patches or fixes, so the customer is left with a piece of crap and no recompense. If a physical item is faulty you're allowed/entitled to return it.. sadly the same can't be said for digital items :\ |
Oh don't get me wrong I think it's a fantastic and fair thing  , I just hope it will be handled and implemented in the right way. I don't think that there will be huge problems though, Valve know their shit  . |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65086
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 16:37 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | I was actually agreeing with you, hehe.. I guess I'm having a "not expressing myself correctly" day  |
Haha nono it's me mate, and the 40°C outside (30+ inside ) that are making my poor brain melt xD  |
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 18:34 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 2nd Aug 2012 18:47 Post subject: |
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So much fucking bullshit in those terms.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 20:27 Post subject: |
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http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/
Very very interesting.
L4D2 DirectX 9 Windows version: 270.6 FPS
L4D2 OpenGL Windows version (unreleased): 303.4 FPS
L4D2 OpenGL Linux version: 315 FPS
The mature Windows/DirectX version is the slowest.
| Quote: | | This experience lead to the question: why does an OpenGL version of our game run faster than Direct3D on Windows 7? It appears that it’s not related to multitasking overhead. We have been doing some fairly close analysis and it comes down to a few additional microseconds overhead per batch in Direct3D which does not affect OpenGL on Windows. Now that we know the hardware is capable of more performance, we will go back and figure out how to mitigate this effect under Direct3D. |
I wonder if they switch to OpenGL for Source even on Windows, one day, if not for performance reasons, for the sake of simplicity.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 20:43 Post subject: I have left. |
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 20:52 Post subject: |
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I call BS on that pic of Valve giving a refund. I mean when have Valve ever responded to a support email in hours, let alone days?
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 20:57 Post subject: |
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| Shoshomiga wrote: | | There is a very good reason people don't use opengl and that is they want to have ati users be able to actually have the games working. Remember rage? I still remember trying to play butcher bay remake back when I had an ati card, it was running with less than 1 fps |
| Quote: | We’ve been working with NVIDIA, AMD, and Intel to improve graphic driver performance on Linux. They have all been great to work with and have been very committed to having engineers on-site working with our engineers, carefully analyzing the data we see. We have had very rapid turnaround on any bugs we find and it has been invaluable to have people who understand the game, the renderer, the driver, and the hardware working alongside us when attacking these performance issues.
This is a great example of the benefits that are the result of close coordination between software and hardware developers and should provide value to the Linux community at large. |
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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Dunge
Posts: 1201
Location: Québec
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 21:02 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: | | I wonder if they switch to OpenGL for Source even on Windows, one day, if not for performance reasons, for the sake of simplicity. |
I've already said the same speech in multiple comments section of news articles about this blog post and most people wouldn't agree but I'll say it again.
OpenGL for simplicity? Nah! OpenGL development process is much harder than DirectX. DirectX offers a complete set of tools, documentation, sample, debuggers. It is object oriented and much easier to manage than old OpenGL.
This article compare a DirectX9 game. Microsoft improved performance a lot with D3D10/11 so already the article tests are void. D3D10/11 also allow for many features set that you won't see in OpenGL.
It was always the case that OpenGL was slightly faster than the fixed function pipeline of DirectX9 and under, but that's only for FPS of brute force rendering of many polygons. Game rendering technology improved a lot since these years and the number of polygons on screen became a much less important factor to take in account compared to the rest.
Plus, people saying "Yaii every games will run on Linux and it will be better and faster" they forget that barely no commercial game support OpenGL anyway. Source engine is an exception.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 21:07 Post subject: |
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Can't wait to play L4D2 on my Linux Mint install. I've got excellent results with OpenGL in the Unigine Heaven Benchmark so far.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 21:21 Post subject: |
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| Dunge wrote: | | OpenGL for simplicity? Nah! OpenGL development process is much harder than DirectX. DirectX offers a complete set of tools, documentation, sample, debuggers. It is object oriented and much easier to manage than old OpenGL. |
You misunderstood what I meant with the word simplicity.
Since they are going to release Mac and Linux OpenGL versions of their games day 1, along with the Windows/DirectX version.. why not scrap the DirectX Windows version? You are saying OpenGL requires more effort.. but they have already decided to put the effort in the first place when they announced Mac will be considered a tier 1 platform, 2 years ago.
http://store.steampowered.com/news/3569/
| Quote: | | We are treating the Mac as a tier-1 platform so all of our future games will release simultaneously on Windows, Mac, and the Xbox 360. Updates for the Mac will be available simultaneously with the Windows updates. |
(And I'm sure they'll make the same promise for linux as well, eventually).
Of course a D3D-ish version will always be made for the the 360, but then again a GL-ish version will also be made for the PS3, and to be honest the PC remains their lead platform, so it's not very relevant whether they use D3D for the 360.
| Quote: | | This article compare a DirectX9 game. Microsoft improved performance a lot with D3D10/11 so already the article tests are void. |
Very good point! Didn't think of that. However it doesn't make it any less impressive that the immature GL/Linux version runs better.
| Quote: | | D3D10/11 also allow for many features set that you won't see in OpenGL. |
And vice versa. nvidia's FXAA/TXAA's creator Lottes points out some GL extentions that offer functionality that's not present in D3D. http://timothylottes.blogspot.gr/2012/08/gl-faster-than-dx-and-linux-faster-than.html
| Dunge wrote: | | Plus, people saying "Yaii every games will run on Linux and it will be better and faster" they forget that barely no commercial game support OpenGL anyway. Source engine is an exception. |
Valve is making a start..
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 21:38 Post subject: |
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| consolitis wrote: |
| Dunge wrote: | | Plus, people saying "Yaii every games will run on Linux and it will be better and faster" they forget that barely no commercial game support OpenGL anyway. Source engine is an exception. |
Valve is making a start.. |
Exactly, there's always someone who must take the first step.
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| Posted: Fri, 3rd Aug 2012 22:50 Post subject: I have left. |
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