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 Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2004 21:36 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I like games like Colin McRae Rally, Rallisport Challenge2, Project Gotham Racing, Gran Turismo series, Live For Speed, GTR mods, so I have some experience of car games, and I can tell that this game is plain shitty crap. I have never seen as bad handling as Richar Burns Rally has. |
I'd love to see you use left-foot braking, pull off scandinavian flicks and do a pendulum to intentionally destabilize and oversteer the car in any of those games you mentioned. Those are some of the most common and frequently used techniques in rally racing, and this is the only game I've seen aside from Rally Trophy where its possible to actually accomplish all of those techniques (and in fact actually requires you to) - if you want to fly around the stages in this game at higher speeds then you will need to be able pull off all these maneuvers, just like in real rally racing. Go through the rally school and watch the replay of the qualifier driven by Richard Burns and you'll see the kind of stuff needed.
| Quote: | | It's almost impossible to keep your car straight in this game. |
Wrong, what you meant to say is: "I suck too much at playing this game"
I don't want to be rude but it's far from impossibe, it's not even that hard - I passed the rally school qualifier first time and am competing well in my first championship.
Sorry, but this isn't Colin McRae 3 where you can take most corners at speed by simply easing up a little on acceleration.
By no means is the game perfect... But man, these complaints remind me exactly of the initial reactions to Grand Prix Legends where everyone bitched about how "impossible" it was and how easy it would be to fly off the track before they actually learned to play.
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2004 21:47 Post subject: |
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| Phinor wrote: | This is a PC rally _simulation_, released to XBox&PS2 as well just for the console players that love simulations too.
Oh and CMR4, Rallisport Challenge 2 etc. are not simulations, they are arcade games for consoles  |
Nope... this is NOT a simulation,,,
I have tried this now for at least 8H, and it is still just luck if you finish a stage without crashing....
Because the car is just fu.. unstable! 
So what I said earlier, I´ll take that back..
This game is getting pissed on by Colin 04!
And to Nuclearwinter who wrote:
"Wrong, what you meant to say is: "I suck too much at playing this game"
I don't want to be rude but it's far from impossibe, it's not even that hard - I passed the rally school qualifier first time and am competing well in my first championship."
I Completed the rally school qualifier with perfect score..
Yet when i drive the rally stages, the car suddenly looses the grip
or doesn´t turn when I use the handbrake!
So please skip the:
"This is a simulation game, and not a arcade game,,, and you can only drive NFS games,, bla bla"
Because this is a granny game, when u actually drive around
at 100 km/h on the speedometer and when it really goes 50 km/h. 
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| Posted: Sun, 4th Jul 2004 22:31 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Nope... this is NOT a simulation,,,
I have tried this now for at least 8H, and it is still just luck if you finish a stage without crashing.... |
Your inability to finish a stage doesn't make the game not be a simulation (especially when myself and others are managing to do it). Just as IL-2: Sturmovik is not any less of a simulation because some people have difficulty getting off the ground. Just as Grand Prix Legends is not any less of a simulation because most people struggle to finish a race without spinning out until they get good at it.
Btw, I knew a guy some years ago who tried to take up amateur rally driving in real life; on his first attempt he hit a tree on the second corner... He quit soon after that and never did manage to complete a stage. No game, not even this, is as taxing and difficult as the real thing.
| Quote: | I Completed the rally school qualifier with perfect score..
Yet when i drive the rally stages, the car suddenly looses the grip
or doesn´t turn when I use the handbrake! |
Are you changing your car setup appropriately for different courses? Using hard suspension and low ride height on one course is going to handle a hell of a lot differently than using soft suspension and a higher right height on the same course would. Your car in the rally school qualifier is already setup ideally for that track and damage level is not set at realistic. This is true even in Colin 4, some road surfaces handle very differently from others.
I'm hoping the actual game will come with a good manual for car setup because there's a hell of lot more to it than Colin McRae and the number of options are kinda overwhelming.
I'm not very far into my Rally career, but I'm doing pretty good (not first but certainly not last either) and each time I race a stage I find myself improving and learning from my mistakes. Some stages I struggle more on, but I can promise you that getting around the track has little to do with luck.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 05:51 Post subject: |
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This is a good way to freshen up the school English, it have become a little bit rosty...
Yepp,, I agree on some points, but I still personally thinks that the driving is not realistic/fun.
The best driving experience I have had on the Xbox lately, is IndyCar Series 2005.
Yepp, it goes only round and round.
Maybe that´s why I have a really hard time with RBR... 
I really liked GP Legends on the PC.
And that game was hard, but you really could learn how too play that game.
My bad points about the Richard Burns game:
- One little bush, and the car comes to a short stop.
- The railings in e.g. France is just mad. Touch it once and one log will fall of and you completely crashes into the rail.(That´s one real safety rail... )
- The sense of speed is wrong.
- Graphics are poor.
- And when you take the U-turns, the car always turns around if you get too a certain degree.(The full-time all-wheel drive suddenly stops to work)
I am not a rally driver, and I think RBR lacks some fun in the driving.
If I had a steering wheel to my Xbox, then maybe it would be easier.
Anyway, we all have different taste... and that´s lucky... 
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 11:56 Post subject: |
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Have any of you ever driven a real car. I mean 100 km/h on a country road feels pretty darn fast. And how would you know how hard you can take a
corner if you don't hear or feel how the tires handles on the road. I never check the speedometer when racing in real life, I never have to,
the car tells me how fast I am driving.
If Burns Rally would have given me a better sense of speed and feeling through vibration it would easily be the best rally game out there, becuase
the car actually handels like in real life.
But right know Burns isn't fun, and racing should be fun, even if it's hard and realistic.
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makev80
Posts: 95
Location: Waikiki
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 14:57 Post subject: |
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| crizz wrote: | Have any of you ever driven a real car. I mean 100 km/h on a country road feels pretty darn fast. And how would you know how hard you can take a
corner if you don't hear or feel how the tires handles on the road. I never check the speedometer when racing in real life, I never have to,
the car tells me how fast I am driving.
If Burns Rally would have given me a better sense of speed and feeling through vibration it would easily be the best rally game out there, becuase
the car actually handels like in real life.
But right know Burns isn't fun, and racing should be fun, even if it's hard and realistic. |
Exactly.
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jOnTe
Posts: 45
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 16:44 Post subject: |
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i give up, i cant play this! I cant make more then 3 corners before im rolling. Its too hard to be fun! Maybe the PC version with wheel will be funnier, who knows! I'm feeling like a rally noOb!
And yes i have been Co driving (practice race, and i havent really steered but...) a real one and WoOT it goes fast man...................... i was shiting my pants :wroom:.
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makev80
Posts: 95
Location: Waikiki
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Ispep
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Posts: 4117
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 19:56 Post subject: |
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Feeling of speed is difficult for games, don't look for it because you won't find it.
If you have a wheel for your PC simulations, which is all you would use a wheel for in the first place right? I assume it should also work on the XBox like it does on PS2? It'll have better reactions to forcefeedback than your joypad as well imagine.
I don't have an XBox and from what I've heard anyway this game is best waiting for on the PC itself.
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Weedo
Posts: 1506
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 21:32 Post subject: |
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Heh I would never play a racing game on the PC. Consoles are the only good platform for racing games.
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 22:02 Post subject: |
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I'll say it again..this game is utter crap. Dont care how much your a sim or arcade guy...this game doest fit neither bill ..its piss poor.
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makev80
Posts: 95
Location: Waikiki
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| Posted: Mon, 5th Jul 2004 23:44 Post subject: |
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| Weedo wrote: | | Heh I would never play a racing game on the PC. Consoles are the only good platform for racing games. |
For me it's exactly opposite.
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makev80
Posts: 95
Location: Waikiki
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jOnTe
Posts: 45
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 00:30 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 02:41 Post subject: |
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Aha,, I didn´t know that...
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 12:37 Post subject: |
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makev80
Posts: 95
Location: Waikiki
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 15:12 Post subject: |
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| Megahoover wrote: |
Nope... this is NOT a simulation,,,
I have tried this now for at least 8H, and it is still just luck if you finish a stage without crashing....
Because the car is just fu.. unstable! |
Nice reason, RBR is unrealistic, because "i cant finish a stage without crashing" . Maybe you should try to drive a little bit slower. You know, in rbr your car understeer,oversteer etc. Even if u drive slow then u can have a good time in rookie season while driving on YOUR limits, dont push yourself too hard at the beginning and you should enjoy rbr .
Peace
EDIT:
One more thing: Mikko post from bhmotorsports forums:
| Quote: |
Debating tip:
Explain that for rally driving to be authentic (indeed - to even BE rally-driving) at least the basic rally driving techniques must work (pendulum, scandinavian flick, left-foot braking etc).
Point out that basically no other rally games (bar Rally Trophy) supports ANY of those techniques.
I swear, in CMR3, 4, WRC 1-2-3, you cannot do a single of those techniques. The physics engine runs on magic and simply will not respond to it.
|
And interview with Richard Burns on Richard Burns Rally site:
http://www.richardburnsrally.com/richardBurnsInterview.htm
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Weedo
Posts: 1506
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 17:34 Post subject: |
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Anyone who says you can't judge a racing game when you're driving with a gamepad is fucking stupid! The games are meant to be played with a pad not with a wheel. People who play with a wheel are the minority. At least 90% of all console players play with a pad and if the developer wasn't able to develop good gamepad controls he's just incompetent.
(I haven't tried this game yet but I needed to say that.)
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 17:48 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 17:59 Post subject: |
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ok, i dont have a wheel. so i guess there is no point for me getting this. right?
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 18:29 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Anyone who says you can't judge a racing game when you're driving with a gamepad is fucking stupid! The games are meant to be played with a pad not with a wheel. |
- Do you think a pad installed in a real car would in any way give a realistic representation of how the car behaves?
I think it goes without saying that to properly judge the realism, one must at least have the basic steering wheel + pedal interface, if we are simulating such vehicles. To do otherwise is to judge the realism of Microsoft Flight Simulator using a keyboard, or why not a pad.
If you don't have a steering wheel, you're going to have to do with the (far) less realistic experience. Sadly.
| Quote: | | Heh I would never play a racing game on the PC. Consoles are the only good platform for racing games. |
- Surely the console is the worst for racing simulators - are there even any simulators on the console? (before RBR)
| Quote: | | I don't think you can ever truly achieve that sense of speed in games without completely debilitating the driver from the ability to corner at the right times. |
- I don't quite understand this sentence. Could you or anyone explain?
| Quote: | | Hard to drive, it feels like you drive on soap all the fu.. time! |
- A car that is 'destabilized' will start to skid one way or another, I am guessing that is what you are sensing. The short wheelbased Peugeot 206 should be the twitchiest of the bunch while the impreza should be a bit more stable. It depends entirely on how fast you are going, the surface, how rough you are with the control imput, etc (usually in racing, smoothness is paramount).
| Quote: | | yup..tend to agree...the cars are a bitch to control.....and forget it if you like to drive using the "behind the car" look....impossible......was looking forward to this one too......disappointed:( |
- I think that of all racing games. Anyway, there is an explanation - as the camera is not watching 100% the direction the car is pointing, is very difficult to pick up on the car starting to veer or become unstable, as well as having a very poor perception of what the car is doing and which way it is aimed at/traveling during cornering.
| Quote: | tried this game for like 10 min, and it sucked, Rallisport Challenge 2 is the best rally game on xbox... rating of this game 1/10...
capice.... |
- What 'sucked' about it? And how could it get just 1/10? That means everything would be the absolute lowest quality and very poorly executed.
RalliSport Challenge 2 isn't even the same genre of game. They both deal with rally cars (loosely), but one is an arcade game and the other is a simulator. They don't compare.
| Quote: | The sense of speed is weak and the feeling of taking turns and
breaking are non existing. The controler only vibrates when the
car is outside the track. |
- Amusing, an early review from the website gamereactor said the feeling of speed was so 'riduculously strong'.. lol. Anyway, from just watching the movies I was cringing from the speed on the tight forest roads. Fastest I've ever seen (due to the environment probably). It's also the possibility that you aren't driving very fast (especially if you just got the game).
| Quote: | | TGD wrote: This game is utter crap |
- How is it utter crap? Your opinion doesn't leave much of an impression to say the least.
| Quote: | | This game lacks all that, instead you'll find youself looking on the speedometer all the time to find out if you driving to fast to take the next turn. |
- Do you only measure speed by the vibration through a game pad? Personally I foremost use my eyes, secondly the sound, and thirdly - knowing what gear and RPM I am in (relate to sound). In RBR you can hear on the drivetrain sounds how fast they are spinning, too, which is unusual in racing games.
| Quote: | | I have played a lot of all kinds of rally and track simulations. I like games like Colin McRae Rally, Rallisport Challenge2, Project Gotham Racing, Gran Turismo series, Live For Speed, GTR mods, so I have some experience of car games, and I can tell that this game is plain shitty crap. I have never seen as bad handling as Richar Burns Rally has. |
- Care to specify what is bad about the handling? As it claims to be a simulator, we'll have to assume that good handling is realistic, and bad handling is not being realistic.
| Quote: | I Completed the rally school qualifier with perfect score..
Yet when i drive the rally stages, the car suddenly looses the grip
or doesn´t turn when I use the handbrake! |
- The loss of grip is most likely from you accidently destabilizing the car. The grip is most likely still there, only the car is skidding and not directly 'roll' gripping with the tires.
Handbrake turns need both speed and rotational momentum to work properly (you need to start rotating before you pull it for it to work for sure).
| Quote: | | And when you take the U-turns, the car always turns around if you get too a certain degree.(The full-time all-wheel drive suddenly stops to work) |
- If you get the car rotating faster than the turn, there will be a point where the turning grip (opposite lock) of the front wheels do not offer enough force to stop the rotating movement of the car. This is normal and is called "Megahoover had a spin 3km into the stage and lost 10 seconds".
It gets worse the more the car is sideways because the front wheels can only turn something like 45 degrees to the sides.
Btw, I think you don't quite understand drivetrain theory and what it affects. 4WD / Full time AWD (can and is often the same thing) does not give more traction on the tires, only lessens the torque each tire puts down to the ground by dividing it among 4 wheels instead of 2. This makes it less likely to go beyond available tire tration when you have either a high power car, slippery surface, or both.
Last edited by mikkow on Tue, 6th Jul 2004 18:32; edited 1 time in total
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 18:30 Post subject: |
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from the sound of things I guess not, which is why games like Colin McRae and Toca Race Driver do so well, because they rely more on impression than actual behind the scenes number crunching.
I bought a Logitech MOMO racing for around £60, it's a lot better than I was imagined to believe when I found out it was the mainstream copy of a more robust orginal
It should work on most PS2 games as well, but I'm hard pressed to find a console game that is enjoyable with one, let alone requires.
I'll wait for RBR on the PC as it's getting tweaked extra, as I said already, for the PC release
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 18:35 Post subject: |
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From what we have heard over at www.bhmotorsports.com/rbr, the only known difference between console and PS versions is graphics and that the PC version will have some kind of driver eyes perspective camera (not sure if it includes a cockpit, but at least something more to the left than the center cockpit cam in the PS2/X-box versions).
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Ispep
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 18:51 Post subject: |
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well beyond the obvious limitations of a game in giving you a sense of speed, in Live for speed you can tweak the degree of view to something that gives you a greater sense of speed visually - but it's more fisheye and not easy to drive with.
That's what I meant - the view on the monitor is not realistic so sense of speed is going to be skewed in places somehwat.
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jOnTe
Posts: 45
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Tue, 6th Jul 2004 18:52 Post subject: |
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oki
Last edited by jOnTe on Tue, 6th Jul 2004 21:02; edited 2 times in total
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