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 Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 21:55 Post subject: |
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How can anyone possibly still take timechange01 seriously?
The indoctrination theory is nothing but a construct of wishful thinking contrived by the fans.
Its an honest, coherent and well thought out attempt at explaining a logically flawed and cryptic ending that is open to endless interpretation and requires imaginative "theories" to fill in all the gaps. (as every bad piece of writing is)
But it was never the intention of Bioware (or dear incompetent Mac Walters) to have Shep hallucinating at the end.
The original - Dark Energy - ending was conceived by Walters and mainly Karpyshyn long before development of part III began and was scrapped shortly after the whole storyline leaked at the end of last year.
This is probably the reason why Martin Sheen had to be recast in November to speak new lines for TIM.
From what I read it was far from being a stroke of ingeniousness but still lightyears better than what we got in the end - or in most other games for that matter.
I believe that at this point there are only 3 possible outcomes, but they in fact differ this time:
a) Bioware changes nothing and they hope this PR shitstorm will die down.
It will eventually and the customers they lose and the bad press they get will cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue but this is peanuts for such a big company as EA.
However, Mass Effect will go down in recent history as another prime example of wasted potential and in a decade or so will plunge into obscurity together with Lost, BSG and all the other failures of modern media.
b) They will completely change the ending directly via DLC.
It would be fan service but a bad move PR wise as well because thats nothing short of directly admitting that they completely botched the ending and it was an "all speculation for everyone!" afterthought that was quickly put together in the last 3 months of development. (which it was)
Thats why the most likely one is this -
c) The compromise.
They promised even before the game came out that there will be DLC that plays BEFORE the penultimate TIM mission and has an impact on the finale.
This might lead to Shep gaining a valuable asset or viable information that will allow to alter the ending in a way that it presents a new option for the player, one where the relays can be saved, and not everyone will strand and starve to death.
This is the only option that calms the angry mob and minimizes PR damage at the same time.
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Stonga
Posts: 306
Location: Scandinavia
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:11 Post subject: |
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| Extraordinary wrote: | How can anyone possibly still take timechange01 seriously?
The indoctrination theory is nothing but a construct of wishful thinking contrived by the fans.
Its an honest, coherent and well thought out attempt at explaining a logically flawed and cryptic ending that is open to endless interpretation and requires imaginative "theories" to fill in all the gaps. (as every bad piece of writing is)
But it was never the intention of Bioware (or dear incompetent Mac Walters) to have Shep hallucinating at the end.
The original - Dark Energy - ending was conceived by Walters and mainly Karpyshyn long before development of part III began and was scrapped shortly after the whole storyline leaked at the end of last year.
This is probably the reason why Martin Sheen had to be recast in November to speak new lines for TIM.
From what I read it was far from being a stroke of ingeniousness but still lightyears better than what we got in the end - or in most other games for that matter.
I believe that at this point there are only 3 possible outcomes, but they in fact differ this time:
a) Bioware changes nothing and they hope this PR shitstorm will die down.
It will eventually and the customers they lose and the bad press they get will cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue but this is peanuts for such a big company as EA.
However, Mass Effect will go down in recent history as another prime example of wasted potential and in a decade or so will plunge into obscurity together with Lost, BSG and all the other failures of modern media.
b) They will completely change the ending directly via DLC.
It would be fan service but a bad move PR wise as well because thats nothing short of directly admitting that they completely botched the ending and it was an "all speculation for everyone!" afterthought that was quickly put together in the last 3 months of development. (which it was)
Thats why the most likely one is this -
c) The compromise.
They promised even before the game came out that there will be DLC that plays BEFORE the penultimate TIM mission and has an impact on the finale.
This might lead to Shep gaining a valuable asset or viable information that will allow to alter the ending in a way that it presents a new option for the player, one where the relays can be saved, and not everyone will strand and starve to death.
This is the only option that calms the angry mob and minimizes PR damage at the same time. |
 Spoiler: | You have to admit that the indoctrination theory is sound? I don't really care if it is real or not, but they have to change the ending somewhat so it make sense to the majority. It's full of plotholes and holes in general. The IT make sense even though it was not the intention of Bioware, I hope they go with it or something similar that makes the end satisfying . I don't mind Shepard dieing, just make it meaningful. |
Last edited by Stonga on Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:14; edited 1 time in total
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(Nexus)
Posts: 2807
Location: 192.168.1.72
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:14 Post subject: |
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73214
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:20 Post subject: |
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I lost Derpaordinary when he mentioned Lost and BSG in the same sentence. 
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:34 Post subject: |
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Why does everyone like BSG so much?
The ending was a huge pile of spiritual, anti-technology poop.
Everything before was great but the same applies to Lost and ME3 aswell.
And indoc IS sound and it would be option b)
this doesnt change that indoc wasn't planned by BW
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:43 Post subject: |
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Extraordinary, the problem with the end is not, that the mass relays blow up. The problem is, that reapers' motivation doesn't make sense and feels very forced; the game is full of plot holes; your discussion with both the IM and plot device kid are in fact short cut scenes with no answers to the very many questions players arrive at that point with. In fact, for me, the only good part was the mass relays blowing up, and thus spawning a new, never before seen situation in the galaxy. Emotionally that was very effective.
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:47 Post subject: |
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Reaper design= stolen from war of the worlds
the thraser maws=sandworms from dune
BSG like ending ?
taking stock photos from the inet and implement ingame etc.
well what else to say then they are lazy
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:48 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | Extraordinary, the problem with the end is not, that the mass relays blow up. The problem is, that reapers' motivation doesn't make sense and feels very forced; the game is full of plot holes; your discussion with both the IM and plot device kid are in fact short cut scenes with no answers to the very many questions players arrive at that point with. In fact, for me, the only good part was the mass relays blowing up, and thus spawning a new, never before seen situation in the galaxy. Emotionally that was very effective. |
I guess both are the problem. The whole end is a big problem.
Give us a new dialogue options that makes Shep refute Starchilds arguments and kick its ass to oblivion.
To give a better explanation for the motivations, they would indeed have to completely change the ending. Maybe they'll do it, maybe not.
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:50 Post subject: |
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They won't do it. I'm 100% sure, that they won't.
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JBeckman
VIP Member
Posts: 34994
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 22:54 Post subject: |
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Used UModel ( http://www.gildor.org/ ) to screw around a bit, not really much to see but I found some fun stuff.
(This is from EDI's alternate outfit, found it strange, also strange that the alternate - loyalty leftover? - outfit is part of the base files and not the Prothean DLC or which one it was again, as is the base Prothean model and texture and some other stuff for that character but that alone doesn't do much.)
(I never found this in-game even after a certain cutscene or what to call it to minimize spoilers, maybe I missed something, it's not just Tali that has a photo although hers has a ugly light flare effect on it but that's already covered.)
(The core texture of Tali's photo, unsure what material I was on but it's pretty pixelated though that's understandable, most normal maps seem pretty low-res and some textures - especially companion "portraits" are very blurry.)
(This is the base Liara romance body model, I guess it's remained since Mass Effect 1, it's the only "nude" - barbie like - one remaining, Shephard got boxers this time, or lacey underwear for female variants.)
(This is the base romance model for Ashley, hair is a separate model as is sometimes the head but it varies, kinda looks like a copy of Shepards female body albeit with tint variants, usually the base of those are very pale to accommodate custom tints - as say Cortez or that navigator / e-mail reader you have now - unsure if they're using tints though - there was one more I think as well, Vega is also referenced simply as "Marine" by the way.)
(And this is Kaidan I believe, some smaller variations to Shepard but mostly it's not a white base texture to accommodate tinting.)
(I checked Tali as well but she only has that face visor model and they use the normal model with camera tweaks as in Mass Effect 2 so you don't see that she still has a visor when they show that removal scene.)
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| Posted: Sat, 17th Mar 2012 23:59 Post subject: |
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ixigia
[Moderator] Consigliere
Posts: 65085
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 00:33 Post subject: |
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Reminds me of one of those deal with it gifs, Matryoshka edition 
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 01:41 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 02:06 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4
I agree 100% |
I agree with some of the problems. He makes it out to be, that the biggest problem is the mass relays blowing up, and then the universe as we knew it, the interaction between the races, that you have built is gone, and thus your "work", that you did uniting the people is gone as well.
But it's not. Uniting the people is an idea, your choices are moral choices, and they are right regardless of being separated afterwards.
Yes, it's a sad ending, it's the end of an era, it's uncertainty, but it's life baby! It's sour success. It's a bittersweet ending, and the feeling of the ending I actually liked.
The reapers' motivation made no sense, and there were a lot of plot holes. If they wrote it better, it could have been good.
Still beats shit effect 2 hands down.
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 04:45 Post subject: |
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tbh... I dont see myself playing the ME trilogy every again...
Why put in all the hours to build your character through the three games, only to have a 3 generic endings, with parts that make no logical sense in them.
Even if their script was leaked, were there no tie-ups there either? Like how your choices ended up changing things in the future. Like fallout series does at the end. I mean if they had it in the original script surely they could have used it? Imo just excuses...
bleh first DA2 now this...
Either way, dont see myself picking up another Bioware game again before I've "Tested" it.
Hopefully Obisidian Entertainment can pick up their issues with gameplay in their RPGs and start taking over the Story/choice RPG genre with better sales/games.
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chiv
Posts: 27530
Location: Behind You...
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 09:15 Post subject: |
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currently doing the quarian missions... inside the geth server bit at the moment. i actually like it, because this is the first time where the quarians are portrayed sympathetically, which i think is kinda cool because its a shift from the previous characterisation and i wasnt expecting it. apparently not all quarians are assholes. just most of them, because they killed off all the kind and decent ones 
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StEFaN7
Posts: 5884
Location: them swamps
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 10:44 Post subject: |
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remember when harbringer said at the end of the second game that "that which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction ? well now it makes sense
i think everybody forget that line or didnt pay atention to it
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 10:50 Post subject: |
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| Auran13 wrote: |
What doesnt make sense about the reapers? They were programmed to assimilate higher life so lower life has a chance? |
That is not their main purpose, their main purpose is to end organic life before it gets a chance to create a synthetic life, which would kill all organic life. Yeah, makes sense, completely plausible and really good explanation ...
| Quote: | | I liked the order out of chaos thing too, its like their function is to bring balance to the universe. |
They completely failed to make that point about there being chaos, if organics are left alive. They say they want order in chaos, but they give us no explanation, they show us no evidence of the world turning to chaos, if organics live on. It's BioWare wanting people to accept, that there will be chaos, because they said so. They didn't convince anyone of it. Empty buzzwords, that seemingly get a few people excited, but I require more convincing. Just another element of lazy writing.
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:03 Post subject: |
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So, why putting bunch of mass relays in space? If there are no mass relays, organic life will have almost no chance to develop itself to point where it would be able to create an intelligent synthetic life. A specie limited to its own solar system is no threat to anyone.
It's just poor writing.
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:08 Post subject: |
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| Guy_Incognito wrote: | So, why putting bunch of mass relays in space? If there are no mass relays, organic life will have almost no chance to develop itself to point where it would be able to create an intelligent synthetic life. A specie limited to its own solar system is no threat to anyone.
It's just poor writing. |
Yes, the ending is very poorly written, it introduced a plethora of new plot holes, and worst of all, we are made to accept without question the "truth" of the reapers, even though we never saw any evidence throughout the entirety of the games, that what they say makes any sense. All good villains in any narrative are scary, because they are right about certain things, they are great, because they are believable. Here they just come out of the blue with a silly motive, that we HAVE to accept as true, because, well, BioWare says so. We are unconvinced. And this order and chaos bullshit, that appears in a total of two sentences to make it appear as though there is some philosophical grounds the reapers operate on. Please, that is the best they could come up with? I feel insulted, it's so shallow. But once again, even though we see no evidence of this coming chaos, we have to accept, because BioWare says so.
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:42 Post subject: |
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I lost my Saves due to shady circumstances,was about to finish it.My ME2 saves went poof,too so ill ask the allknowing hump: Is there a savegame creator or something where i can click some boxes about what i did in ME1/ME2 and make a savegame out of it?
| paxsali wrote: |
Now, I don't know what hardware costs in Poland, I guess it's cheaper because everything is stolen from Germany and resold... |
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34200
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:49 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:22; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:54 Post subject: |
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| BettyShikle wrote: | | I lost my Saves due to shady circumstances,was about to finish it.My ME2 saves went poof,too so ill ask the allknowing hump: Is there a savegame creator or something where i can click some boxes about what i did in ME1/ME2 and make a savegame out of it? |
www.masseffect2saves.com
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:56 Post subject: |
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So what or who exactly was that child/citadel thingie? Did I miss it?
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StEFaN7
Posts: 5884
Location: them swamps
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| Posted: Sun, 18th Mar 2012 11:58 Post subject: |
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| StEFaN7 wrote: | remember when harbringer said at the end of the second game that "that which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction ? well now it makes sense
i think everybody forget that line or didnt pay atention to it |
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| Page 237 of 306 |
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Who wants to bet BW is going to claim "yeah man that was what we were going for" and release a DLC with the 'true' ending after shep "wakes up"?
