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 Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 15:22 Post subject: |
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| Grouch wrote: | | chiv wrote: | | do people realise how silly it is to argue against piracy on a pirate forum. surely your time would be better spent arguing the superiority of metal in building construction to a brick... |
I'm not dissuading anyone from piracy. I say embrace your inner thief. But if you get caught don't bellyache; live by the sword, then die by the sword. |
that would be a good and valid point if the lawsuit filed is for the amount of purchasing the game legally, maybe plus lawyer fees.
personally, i agree, downloading is stealing, but at the same time, i can think of thousands of developers i wish would go bankrupt and never make a single game again and only a few that i like and want to support.
when i pirate, it's because it's the only effective way to self advocate for yourself as a consumer, you have to iso demo to know if it's shit or not.
but seriously, if you sue someone for stealing, sue for what was actually stolen, don't try to run your business on inflated lawsuit awards.
the insanely inflated amounts that copyright lawsuits are filed seeking in and of itself should be a crime.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 15:32 Post subject: |
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| Grouch wrote: | | dezztroy wrote: | | Then your logic is pretty dumb as well. Pirating software is far from the same as stealing a physical item. But that's another debate. |
If your in any kind of IP business(software, books, comics, movies) you wouldn't think so. |
If someone killed my family I would want them dead.
That does not mean capital punishment is ok, or that I support it.
To be fair, law isn't built around the victims, it is what it is.
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Grouch
Posts: 74
Location: Mississausage, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 16:35 Post subject: |
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| Venn wrote: | | Grouch wrote: | | dezztroy wrote: | | Then your logic is pretty dumb as well. Pirating software is far from the same as stealing a physical item. But that's another debate. |
If your in any kind of IP business(software, books, comics, movies) you wouldn't think so. |
If someone killed my family I would want them dead.
That does not mean capital punishment is ok, or that I support it.
To be fair, law isn't built around the victims, it is what it is. |
The law is the law, either vote, lobby to change legislation or run for politics to change it. I don't think it's fair that our highways in Canada have posted speed limits of only 100 Km/h, so more often than not, I am 'speeding'. When I get caught, I either pay the fine, fight it in court, or pay the consequences; such is life, and software piracy is no different.
| frogster wrote: | So if you steal my couch but don't sit on it, then I shouldn't press charges?
lets argue about pixel's. is fun.
steal ?
you have your couch, i have my couch. exactly copy of yours, and you probably have no chance in hell to see it in this life. hell, you don't even know that i've made a copy. |
I don't *know what your getting at. This is an English forum btw.
Edit*
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:12 Post subject: |
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you really don't get that making a copy of a file is not the same thing with stealing a couch from under your ass ?
english is the 3rd language for me, so i may not be so easy to understand. apologies.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:19 Post subject: |
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either way, i think it's safe to assume that everyone would prefer CD projekt red go back to making games instead of continuing to use lawsuits as their primary source of income.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:20 Post subject: |
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| frogster wrote: | | you really don't get that making a copy of a file is not the same thing with stealing a couch from under your ass? |
You really don't get that it's still a crime, regardless?
| fuckit wrote: | | that would be a good and valid point if the lawsuit filed is for the amount of purchasing the game legally, maybe plus lawyer fees. |
$1200 probably is the cost of the game plus lawyer fees.
| Quote: | | personally, i agree, downloading is stealing, but at the same time, i can think of thousands of developers i wish would go bankrupt and never make a single game again and only a few that i like and want to support. |
Why would people pirate and play games from developers they don't like? Sure, maybe you don't like them, but that still isn't fair.
| Quote: | but seriously, if you sue someone for stealing, sue for what was actually stolen, don't try to run your business on inflated lawsuit awards.
the insanely inflated amounts that copyright lawsuits are filed seeking in and of itself should be a crime. |
See above.[/i]
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:21 Post subject: |
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Bottom line is:
CD Projekt are making money off of blackmailing potentially innocent people.
Therefore, I've lost a whole bunch of respect for them.
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garus
VIP Member
Posts: 34197
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:21 Post subject: |
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snip
Last edited by garus on Tue, 27th Aug 2024 21:29; edited 1 time in total
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:23 Post subject: |
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Cedge is back trolling? 
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:26 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | frogster wrote: | | you really don't get that making a copy of a file is not the same thing with stealing a couch from under your ass? |
You really don't get that it's still a crime, regardless?
| fuckit wrote: | | that would be a good and valid point if the lawsuit filed is for the amount of purchasing the game legally, maybe plus lawyer fees. |
$1200 probably is the cost of the game plus lawyer fees.
| Quote: | | personally, i agree, downloading is stealing, but at the same time, i can think of thousands of developers i wish would go bankrupt and never make a single game again and only a few that i like and want to support. |
Why would people pirate and play games from developers they don't like? Sure, maybe you don't like them, but that still isn't fair.
| Quote: | but seriously, if you sue someone for stealing, sue for what was actually stolen, don't try to run your business on inflated lawsuit awards.
the insanely inflated amounts that copyright lawsuits are filed seeking in and of itself should be a crime. |
See above.[/i] |
1. i could probably find a cheaper lawyer and the game costs what... $49.99? $59.99 i'd gladly pay that if sued for it.
3. because you wish the company would go out of business and stop being so evil? seriously, EA used to make games worth playing millenia ago now they just shit on the games industry and PC gamers at every chance, seriously, i wish i could meet the ceo and kill him with my own bare hands, that doesn't mean every game they make is shit though, most but not all.
anyway, hopefully CD projekt someday have an interest in making games too again, it could be a nice supplemental income to their lawsuit business.
i mean, they've made.... 2 games? in total?
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:28 Post subject: |
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| fuckit wrote: | | either way, i think it's safe to assume that everyone would prefer CD projekt red go back to making games instead of continuing to use lawsuits as their primary source of income. |
Do you seriously think that game development staff from CDPRed are directly involved in copyright infringement persecution, or that it's distracting those specific individuals from making games? Really? CDP's dedicated legal team is responsible, obviously. Do people not understand that companies like this are divided into different departments? Research, development, licensing, marketing, legal, support, et cetera. It's not keeping them from making games, don't worry. And also, it's obviously not their primary source of income. No need to distort the truth. They would have to win tens of thousands of these copyright disputes (which isn't going to happen) to match the regular income from the game.
| iNatan wrote: | | Cedge is back trolling? |
Translation: "I don't have a real reply, derp."
Correcting people since 2007 even if they're not wrong.
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LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73238
Location: Ramat HaSharon, Israel 🇮🇱
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:32 Post subject: |
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You think copying file and giving it to someone is criminally illegal (after all, you do live in the Hurr of the Brave and Durr of the Free), and I don't . What reply you want me to have to you exactly? Waste my time like fuckit? Sorry, no.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:35 Post subject: |
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| fuckit wrote: | | 1. i could probably find a cheaper lawyer and the game costs what... $49.99? $59.99 i'd gladly pay that if sued for it. |
Sure you could.
| Quote: | | 3. because you wish the company would go out of business and stop being so evil? |
Well, if a pirated copy doesn't equal a lost sale, as most pirates always loudly insist, then how would pirating their games help make them going out of business?
| Quote: | | seriously, i wish i could meet the ceo and kill him with my own bare hands, |
Wow. You're a psychopath.
| Quote: | anyway, hopefully CD projekt someday have an interest in making games too again, it could be a nice supplemental income to their lawsuit business.
i mean, they've made.... 2 games? in total? |
See above about how this is handled by the separate legal department (who have actually contracted it out to an external law firm, I believe) and isn't keeping them from making games.
They've made two games, and they've pursued copyright infringers of, yes, two games. Sounds about right.
Their legal department is simply doing it's job. It doesn't mean the entire company exists only file lawsuits. They exist to make games, and they have a legal department that handles this kind of thing. Sounds normal to me.
I mean, you say this stupid shit as though they didn't just release a magnificent game 6 months ago, and as though they haven't been keeping busy releasing significant updates for it since then. Your argument doesn't hold water.
Last edited by Cedge on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:38; edited 2 times in total
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:37 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | Their legal department is simply doing it's job. It doesn't mean the entire company exists only file lawsuits. They exist to make games, and they have a legal department that handles this kind of thing. Sounds normal to me. |
Blackmail is their job? I didn't know CDP was the Polish mafia.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:38 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | fuckit wrote: | | either way, i think it's safe to assume that everyone would prefer CD projekt red go back to making games instead of continuing to use lawsuits as their primary source of income. |
Do you seriously think that game development staff from CDPRed are directly involved in copyright infringement persecution, or that it's distracting those specific individuals from making games? Really? CDP's dedicated legal team is responsible, obviously. Do people not understand that companies like this are divided into different departments? Research, development, licensing, marketing, legal, support, et cetera. It's not keeping them from making games, don't worry. And also, it's obviously not their primary source of income. No need to distort the truth. They would have to win tens of thousands of these copyright disputes (which isn't going to happen) to match the regular income from the game. |
do you really not understand that CD projekt red has made in total 2 games and probably hundreds of thousands of lawsuits?
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Grouch
Posts: 74
Location: Mississausage, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:39 Post subject: |
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| dezztroy wrote: | Bottom line is:
CD Projekt are making money off of blackmailing potentially innocent people.
Therefore, I've lost a whole bunch of respect for them. |
How are they innocent if they downloaded said software? And if you lost respect for CDP then who is left? Which game company do you have respect for?(MP games wouldn't count because you wouldn't be able to pirate those).
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:40 Post subject: |
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| Grouch wrote: | | dezztroy wrote: | Bottom line is:
CD Projekt are making money off of blackmailing potentially innocent people.
Therefore, I've lost a whole bunch of respect for them. |
How are they innocent if they downloaded said software? And if you lost respect for CDP then who is left? Which game company do you have respect for?(MP games wouldn't count because you wouldn't be able to pirate those). |
Are you seriously trying to say that an IP Adress is a reliable way to prove someone has committed a crime?
I'm out!
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:41 Post subject: |
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You really don't get that it's still a crime, regardless?
like i said, downloading without sharing in my country is legal. so, i don't really get it.
my internet honor dictates me something like this :
if i intend to play the game more than one complete campaign or so, i would be stealing.
i generally buy all titles that got my attention for more than 2 days. boxed versions, i hate digital ones. i have like 300 boxes 80% beign old games in my country house. this year unfortuantley i think i purchased only 4-5 titles. to much crap on the market.
if i use a software to make money, i will purchase it. (i have a maya license under my name for example. was the most expensive thing i ever got.)
movie's ... the majority i wanted to see, i was in cinema for them.
hell, i drive for 200+ km some years ago to see pirates of caribean/lotr and some others in a quality cinema.
my only grey area to have my mind at peace is my mp3 collection.
Last edited by frogster on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:42; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:42 Post subject: |
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| frogster wrote: | You really don't get that it's still a crime, regardless?
like i said, downloading without sharing in my country is legal. so, i don't really get it.
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Didn't you know? American laws are global laws. Duh.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:44 Post subject: |
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| iNatan wrote: | | You think copying file and giving it to someone is criminally illegal (after all, you do live in the Hurr of the Brave and Durr of the Free), and I don't . What reply you want me to have to you exactly? Waste my time like fuckit? Sorry, no. |
It's not just me. It's the law of most of the countries on the planet (including Israel), that all of their citizens are bound by, that think it is. Your "personal" law doesn't count for one goddamned thing. The law of the land is what matters, here.
I don't care what reply you give, but I can't see how you can say that I'm trolling, especially when your best reply is "well I personally think piracy is okay." That IS actually trolling, since personal opinions aren't the point here. The law is.
| dezztroy wrote: | | Cedge wrote: | | Their legal department is simply doing it's job. It doesn't mean the entire company exists only file lawsuits. They exist to make games, and they have a legal department that handles this kind of thing. Sounds normal to me. |
Blackmail is their job? I didn't know CDP was the Polish mafia. |
Okay, so tell me, is there a way to defend your copyright and intellectual property that you invested millions of dollars into, that isn't "blackmail"? Exercising your legal rights isn't blackmail. The law exists to protect AND punish.
| fuckit wrote: | | do you really not understand that CD projekt red has made in total 2 games and probably hundreds of thousands of lawsuits? |
You think that they've filed hundreds of thousands? Haha, no, I don't think that's true.
So, what, by your logic they should only go after TWO individual pirates?
They've launched two lawsuit campaigns, one for each game. Sounds correct to me.
Correcting people since 2007 even if they're not wrong.
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juniR
Posts: 1457
Location: Somewhere east of I forget
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:45 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:46 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | dezztroy wrote: | | Cedge wrote: | | Their legal department is simply doing it's job. It doesn't mean the entire company exists only file lawsuits. They exist to make games, and they have a legal department that handles this kind of thing. Sounds normal to me. |
Blackmail is their job? I didn't know CDP was the Polish mafia. |
Okay, so tell me, is there a way to defend your copyright and intellectual property that you invested millions of dollars into, that isn't "blackmail"? Exercising your legal rights isn't blackmail. The law exists to protect AND punish.
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Well, you know, they could try simply sueing the accused instead of sending a blackmail letter first.
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Grouch
Posts: 74
Location: Mississausage, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:46 Post subject: |
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| dezztroy wrote: | | Grouch wrote: | | dezztroy wrote: | Bottom line is:
CD Projekt are making money off of blackmailing potentially innocent people.
Therefore, I've lost a whole bunch of respect for them. |
How are they innocent if they downloaded said software? And if you lost respect for CDP then who is left? Which game company do you have respect for?(MP games wouldn't count because you wouldn't be able to pirate those). |
Are you seriously trying to say that an IP Adress is a reliable way to prove someone has committed a crime?
I'm out! |
My piece of crap little Internet Service Provider can tell me, which user has/had a given IP address at any given time/day; you're telling me you can't use this information if you are Truly wrongfully accused?
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:47 Post subject: |
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| dezztroy wrote: | | Didn't you know? American laws are global laws. Duh. |
No, they're not, and you're just building strawmen arugments.
No, American laws are not global laws. What are a (nearly) global set of laws, are the multiple multilateral international copyright treaties that have been enacted over the past 125 years and ratified by all but a dozen or so states on the planet, such as the Berne Convention.
| frogster wrote: | | like i said, downloading without sharing in my country is legal. so, i don't really get it. |
Again: source?
| juniR wrote: | Some serious bullshit in this thread - ppl will always tell 'emselves wtf they wanna hear. I'm a pirate - it's technically theft and immoral. I actually don't give a fuck what anybody here thinks about me being a thief (stones and glass houses eh ) but I feel sorry for the ones who try and dress it up. If you ppl ever have to deal with a moral dilemma of any depth then you are gonna need help. And if you ever get caught your pants are gonna need some serious disinfecting.
Oh I know ... just cos it's legal doesn't mean it's wrong but just cos you ain't robbing an old lady doesn't mean it's not theft. You'll draw the line in a convenient place that keeps you safe for baby Jesus tho 
Edit - btw ... I'm npt defending the companies that wanna chase after pirates... I am accepting that it goes with the territory. I can't complain because I'm stealing their shit  |
Finally, some sense.
I'm not trying to argue that piracy should be stopped or that I don't do it or anything like that. I just can't believe that some people are such apologists or can't see it from a morally objective point of view. You can't just sit there, breaking the law, and get mad at the creators of the work for, wholly within their legal rights (that apply to all citizens equally), pursuing those that break the law. You can't have it both ways.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:54 Post subject: |
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I don't have a problem with them going after people who pirate their games. I've never said I have.
If they do, however, I expect them to do it in a clean way. Doing it through blackmail, is not.
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Grouch
Posts: 74
Location: Mississausage, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:54 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:58 Post subject: |
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cedge if it helps you :
Legea 8/1996:
Constituie infracţiune şi se pedepseste cu închisoare de la 1 an la 4 ani sau cu amendă de la 2.500 lei la 40.000 lei punerea la dispoziţia publicului, inclusiv prin Internet sau prin alte reţele de calculatoare, fără consimţământul titularilor de drepturi, a operelor ori a produselor purtătoare de drepturi conexe sau de drepturi sui-generis ale fabricanţilor de baze de date ori a copiilor acestora, indiferent de suport, astfel încât publicul să le poată accesa în orice loc sau în orice moment ales în mod individual.
there is no law againts downloading. only against sharing.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 19:59 Post subject: |
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| dezztroy wrote: | | If they do, however, I expect them to do it in a clean way. Doing it through blackmail, is not. |
What would be a "clean" way? A polite email saying "send us $50 or we'll sue you"?
If you really think it would be better to go straight to suing them (in which case, a smaller number of people would be subject to much, much larger fines), well...if you say so.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 20:00 Post subject: |
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| Cedge wrote: | | dezztroy wrote: | | If they do, however, I expect them to do it in a clean way. Doing it through blackmail, is not. |
What would be a "clean" way? A polite email saying "send us $50 or we'll sue you"?
If you really think it would be better to go straight to suing them (in which case, a smaller number of people would be subject to much, much larger fines), well...if you say so. |
Considering your first example is exactly what they are doing (with a much larger sum, of course), which is blackmail, no.
Yes, I would expect them to sue them right away. Provided they have proper proof. An IP adress is not proper proof.
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| Posted: Thu, 15th Dec 2011 20:01 Post subject: |
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Guys... those lawyers are scamming German citizens. They're sending them letters, accusing them of downloaded the game and show you a date and a random IP address. This problem is widely spread here in Germany.
It surely is pretty lame that CDPR works with this scum. But I blame their management for it, not the actual devs.
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