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 Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2011 23:46 Post subject: |
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How is improving the human body, which is utterly unremarkable and inefficient apart from the brain, a bad thing?
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Sun, 24th Jul 2011 23:56 Post subject: |
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its desecreating your humanity omnom human should be grefrut with god what gifted! 
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 00:33 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | How is improving the human body, which is utterly unremarkable and inefficient apart from the brain, a bad thing? |
Again, why would it be a good thing?
We live in a world divided by money as it is. Now imagine cybernetic implants and stuff like that.
Now you have the rich part striving for physical perfection even more. Now what are they gonna do with that perfection? (Not all of them but humor me) Oppress the poor folks even more. But this goes into the possible societal ramifications and tbh that's not where I wanted to go.
So anyway. Phyisical (or even mental) perfection (just assuming what could be possible) inevitable leads to a feeling of superiority towards other people which in turn (again, pretty black and white and pretty pessimistic here but I'm just thinking) leads to a certain detachment from other people.
The moment you feel detached from other people, are you still human? If you don't care about them (in a good or bad way). The comparison is pretty stupid but think Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen. He surpassed humanity and thus stopped caring about any of them.
@ClaudeFTW:
You a troll. Stop it.
But why shouldn't humans be content with what they were given by nature? (I'm still not debating the usefulness and acceptability of medical necessary enhancements. Limbs for amputees. Eye replacement for blind people etc.)
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 00:36 Post subject: |
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improving something flawed is only wrong if the person has pseudo-religious views of their own body
your body is not a temple - it's a leaky vessel carrying your genes, and by evolutionary accident, your consciousness for long enough for your genes to propagate and as far as your body is concerned, after that it doesn't care about you anymore..
after the probable age of propagation the genes considers you a drain on the group and your potential offspring and your organs are 'designed' to fail
an animal is only as good as it needs to be in evolutionary terms - not better or worse
as we're growing out of our biologically destined life cycles and can reverse engineer and 'open source' our bodies, we should go as far as our wings carry us
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 00:37 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: |
But why shouldn't humans be content with what they were given by nature? (I'm still not debating the usefulness and acceptability of medical necessary enhancements. Limbs for amputees. Eye replacement for blind people etc.) |
Because it's human nature to better ourselves. To strive for more. To counter your "why shouldn't you be grateful?" --- "Why should we?" I'm pretty damned certain people were "grateful" for the horse and cart, it didn't stop them creating the auto-mobile. People will always strive for better, it's the human condition, and yes; that includes bettering ourselves - even if that means replacing flesh and blood with superior prosthetics.
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24645
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 00:47 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: | | And again there should be a distinction between medically necessary replacements (ie. new lung if you have lung cancer, lost an arm? here get a new one) and the replacement of body parts just to be better for the lack of a better expression. |
Why?
| Reklis wrote: | Now imagine getting optical replacement ( a common thing in cyberpunk literature/games/movies)
Now all of a sudden you see more information than before (doesn't really matter what). Surely that changes how you perceive the world and it will (maybe not outright but sooner or later) change the way you behave. |
Then blind people can't be considered fully human either. They'd be seen as sub-human since they lack a dimension of our input, and I don't buy that. Being human to me is how we think, feel, our personalities. Our bodies are just biological tools. Without a mind they're just dead flesh and bone.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:04 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Reklis wrote: |
But why shouldn't humans be content with what they were given by nature? (I'm still not debating the usefulness and acceptability of medical necessary enhancements. Limbs for amputees. Eye replacement for blind people etc.) |
Because it's human nature to better ourselves. To strive for more. To counter your "why shouldn't you be grateful?" --- "Why should we?" I'm pretty damned certain people were "grateful" for the horse and cart, it didn't stop them creating the auto-mobile. People will always strive for better, it's the human condition, and yes; that includes bettering ourselves - even if that means replacing flesh and blood with superior prosthetics. |
Ok. So that means (in an over the top way) that we all end up as fully cybernetic beings.
Which basically remove any need (or even teh possibility) of "natural" redproduction.
If I'm referencing Shadowrun's cyberzombies, do you get what I'm getting at? (regarding detachment etc.)
On a different note I don't think you can compare the invention of the wheel with drastic changes to your body.
@Frant:
Because there's a difference between someone being born blind or losing a limb in a accident and someone willingly removing a healthy limb just for more muscle strength
It's about the motivation. The one is to overcome a disability of some kind and the other just to get ahead. To be better than other people.
Sure one could argue that replacing an arm is just overcoming the disability of a natural arm but I think that's stretching the argument a bit.
I never said blind people (or disabled people in general) would/should/are considered sub-human.
But you can't deny the fact that if a person who's born blind could be healed his perception of the world would change, right? And again that would lead to his behavior to change (I'm not saying for better or worse I'm just saying it would change).
Last edited by CookieCrumb on Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:05; edited 1 time in total
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Frant
King's Bounty
Posts: 24645
Location: Your Mom
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:05 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: | | But you can't deny the fact that if a person who's born blind could be healed his perception of the world would change, right? And again that would lead to his behavior to change (I'm not saying for better or worse I'm just saying it would change). |
Yes, but in what way does that change how human he is?
As far as I'm concerned, if someone replaced his left arm with a cybernetic arm, he'd be a man with a cybernetic arm.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"The sky was the color of a TV tuned to a dead station" - Neuromancer
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:07 Post subject: |
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@Reklis: you do realize that many of the medical procedures we think are essential and basic now started off as "only available for rich people, fuck off poor bastards" right? There will always be a delay in availability to poor people whenever a new tech/opportunity arrives. It is inevitable. Should we have been grateful with an average lifespan of 40 years? Should we be grateful with simple diseases decimating entire populations?
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:09 Post subject: |
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He has a point there, without sexual reproduction there would be no progression/evolution. That's an extremely extreme case though.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:09 Post subject: |
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| Mister_s wrote: | | He has a point there, without sexual reproduction there would be no progression/evolution. That's an extremely extreme case though. |
Did I ever say we should become robots and not procreate in a biological fashion? Nope. Nor did any single person in here. Reklis is just exaggerating to make his point.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:16 Post subject: |
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Mixing prohumanism with communist ideas. This thread officially delivers.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:17 Post subject: |
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I don't believe human augmentation will ever reach the point you're trying to make though, mate, I just don't. So there's no point in making it in the first place. Replacing limbs/eyes != becoming a robot and ceasing to reproduce. It's just that simple.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 01:20 Post subject: |
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| Aeternum wrote: | | Mixing prohumanism with communist ideas. This thread officially delivers. |
Communist ideas? I tend to disagree.
| Mister_s wrote: | | @Reklis: you do realize that many of the medical procedures we think are essential and basic now started off as "only available for rich people, fuck off poor bastards" right? There will always be a delay in availability to poor people whenever a new tech/opportunity arrives. It is inevitable. Should we have been grateful with an average lifespan of 40 years? Should we be grateful with simple diseases decimating entire populations? |
@sabin:
I'm just trying to occupy myself with something remotely useful/interesting until this game comes out. Humour me, please.
and it should be noted that my point of view here does not necessarily equal my actual point of view and beliefs.
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ClaudeFTW
Posts: 5074
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 08:45 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: |
@ClaudeFTW:
You a troll. Stop it.
But why shouldn't humans be content with what they were given by nature? (I'm still not debating the usefulness and acceptability of medical necessary enhancements. Limbs for amputees. Eye replacement for blind people etc.) |
I already expressed my point of view about this, but it was so obviously ignored, I was hurt. Just so you won't have to look through dozen of posts, I will give you a short resume, and I am in agreement they should be used for sick/injured people only, but then again, we're living in a society which prides itself with free will, it really should be an individual's choice whether or not he would augment himself.
R7 2700x @4GHz / MSI B450 Tomahawk / beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 / 32GB @3000 MHz / MSI RTX 2060 Gaming Z / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB / Western Digital 1TB / Fractal Design Meshify C Dark / SuperFlower Leadex Gold 650W / DELL whatever 27 inch IPS
I usually stream stuff: http://www.twitch.tv/claudeftw |
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 13:56 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:45; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 14:59 Post subject: |
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OH COME ON GUYS/GIRLS (if any).... you're all talking about this in the wrong thread! Make a new thread in the general chatter section!!
1 and 2 are still amazing.
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dsergei
Posts: 4059
Location: Moscow, Russia
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 15:02 Post subject: |
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Last edited by Yondaime on Mon, 2nd Dec 2024 15:45; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 15:04 Post subject: |
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My cock is supposedly not in need of augmentation - but desperately in need of tampering.
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| Posted: Mon, 25th Jul 2011 15:11 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | No. We're not. This is a game dealing with the pros and cons of transhumanism, human augmentation and the limits to which people can/should go. This conversation is relevant  |
But I came to the thread to get more information about the game.
And casus needs to go on a date with rosy palms 
1 and 2 are still amazing. |
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Frant1c
Posts: 311
Location: Not here.
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JBeckman
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Location: Sweden
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fisk
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Location: Von Oben
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| Page 186 of 471 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
And it's just a bunch ofdudes waiting for advancements in penis-enlargement technology.
