| Page 2 of 2 |
suprman
Posts: 651
Location: On Your mum!
|
 Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 05:58 Post subject: |
|
 |
I understand how the 3d works like at the cinema each sequential frame is displayed with opposing polarised light so that one eye sees the image while the other doesnt, because each lense in the glasses are opposite polarisations.
But what I was getting at is why is 60 Hz too low?
if Im understanding it correctly 60hz means the monitor will refresh 60 times per second, so if using 3d shutterglass that would mean that each eye would see 30 images in that second of time, and that seems more than enough since your eyes cant really detect anything above 28? why is that flickering so noticable at the lower refresh?
Disclaimer: Grammatical and spelling mistakes are purposely left in my posts to weed out anally retentive trolls.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 06:03 Post subject: |
|
|
| suprman wrote: | | since your eyes cant really detect anything above 28? |
wut? false
As for why? Probably because the frames aren't exactly sequential; the "left" and "right" frames show the same scene from slightly different angles. So it wouldn't be as smooth as a 30fps 2D movie/game, hence why you need more frames/second. That is my theory at least.
TWIN PEAKS is "something of a miracle."
"...like nothing else on television."
"a phenomenon."
"A tangled tale of sex, violence, power, junk food..."
"Like Nothing On Earth"
~ WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAY CAN ONLY BE SEEN ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHTUOgYNRzY |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
suprman
Posts: 651
Location: On Your mum!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 14:20 Post subject: |
|
|
| suprman wrote: | | if Im understanding it correctly 60hz means the monitor will refresh 60 times per second, so if using 3d shutterglass that would mean that each eye would see 30 images in that second of time, and that seems more than enough since your eyes cant really detect anything above 28? why is that flickering so noticable at the lower refresh? |
Have you never seen flicker of a CRT ? There is a treshold for flickering.
And drop the idea of your eyes not noticing anything above a certain frame rate until you've tested it. The frame rate you need to see some motion as stutterfree heavily depends on you and the speed of said motion. I can easily see the difference between 30fps and 60fps videos, like night and day. Even with low motion scenes.
I always think that you need more fps because in 3D you now have very close objects, which obviously move very fast relative to your viewpoint, thus needing a higher frame rate. Thats what I thought after watching avatar.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
juniR
Posts: 1457
Location: Somewhere east of I forget
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 14:51 Post subject: |
|
|
yeah suprman - 30Hz would be very uncomfortable to look at. That wouldn't matter if you were playing a game, watching a movie or looking at a photo - the latter of which would have zero fps btw but you would still notice flickering. It doesn't depend on frame rates and whether you can notice anything above 30fps or not as far as motion is concerned - the eye can see the flickering even though the brain perceives motion as smooth. You could have an fps of 2 or 200 and regardless you will see flickering at 30Hz.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 15:46 Post subject: |
|
|
| suprman wrote: | I understand how the 3d works like at the cinema each sequential frame is displayed with opposing polarised light so that one eye sees the image while the other doesnt, because each lense in the glasses are opposite polarisations.
But what I was getting at is why is 60 Hz too low?
if Im understanding it correctly 60hz means the monitor will refresh 60 times per second, so if using 3d shutterglass that would mean that each eye would see 30 images in that second of time, and that seems more than enough since your eyes cant really detect anything above 28? why is that flickering so noticable at the lower refresh? |
Found from the web:
For 3D if the TV were 60Hz then each eye would see 30Hz, which would result in a lot of flickering. Remember two frames of the same scene need to be shown at slightly different angles at the same time. A TV can only show frames sequentially it can’t show two frames at the same time.
A 120Hz 2D TV actually shows each frame 4 times.
A plasma TV like a Panasonic still only has 120Hz refresh rate. Refresh rate is to do with how many times a frame is displayed on the screen. Do not get confused with sub-field drive, which will be 600Hz. Sub-field drive is to do with pixel response time, which is 1.7ms for 600Hz. A plasma panel pixels are driven by PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) it is the repetition of the PWM pulses that is the sub-field frequency.
I have actually seen ages ago before panel TV’s at a science technology expo an early version of 3D using shutter glasses and which had only a refresh rate of 50Hz (PAL CRT TV) which means 25Hz per eye and not surprisingly the flickering was really bad.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
suprman
Posts: 651
Location: On Your mum!
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 16:07 Post subject: |
|
|
I know that the FPS of a game or video doesnt matter in this case, I was just using it as an example to better explain what my thinking was.
Disclaimer: Grammatical and spelling mistakes are purposely left in my posts to weed out anally retentive trolls.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vurt
Posts: 13823
Location: Sweden
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 17:10 Post subject: |
|
|
Plasma currently is the best for 3D, if you want least cross talk, but thats for 3D plasmas. If you have a 2D Plasma, you wont even benefit from the 100Hz it has (600Hz is as been stated only the subfield freq.). You can only feed it with (maybe) 23.976Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz, and nothing more.
Does this 3D set even work with normal 2D devices?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BKarza
Posts: 536
Location: /lazurus mode 1
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 17:31 Post subject: |
|
|
Fallout 3 looks better than anything I have seen so far in 3D.
| Nui wrote: | | Because digital shipping takes time. Think of all the digital boats and their digital captains. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 19:56 Post subject: |
|
|
| Nui wrote: | Plasma currently is the best for 3D, if you want least cross talk, but thats for 3D plasmas. If you have a 2D Plasma, you wont even benefit from the 100Hz it has (600Hz is as been stated only the subfield freq.). You can only feed it with (maybe) 23.976Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz, and nothing more.
Does this 3D set even work with normal 2D devices? |
I had a panasonic 3d plasma before this LED tv i bought.
I had to take it back because, despite wat i read, they still suffer screen burn in. I know I did it. While probably not permanent, it was something i didn't want to deal with. Anyway, I don't see a difference in crosstalk between that plasma and my LED. Only difference I see is the contrast, which i miss.
1 stripe purple belt in JiuJitsu (good grief this takes FOREVER hahah)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
suprman
Posts: 651
Location: On Your mum!
|
| Posted: Fri, 18th Mar 2011 21:00 Post subject: |
|
|
Some info on the IZ3d solution
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2779
Disclaimer: Grammatical and spelling mistakes are purposely left in my posts to weed out anally retentive trolls.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nui
VIP Member
Posts: 5720
Location: in a place with fluffy towels
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big_Gun
Posts: 3017
Location: My mother's womb originally. . .
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeoNatan
☢ NFOHump Despot ☢
Posts: 73196
Location: Ramat Gan, Israel 🇮🇱
|
| Posted: Sat, 19th Mar 2011 04:23 Post subject: |
|
|
| suprman wrote: | | that seems more than enough since your eyes cant really detect anything above 28? |
If your eyes don't notice more than 28 fps, time to visit the doctor.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Jun 2011 04:50 Post subject: |
|
|
finally bought one 3D Vision kit (together with ViewSonic 22" monitor). What a blast, you have no idea. Just played Fallout 3 for one hour, you feel like characters and ennemies are alive, it's simply amazing.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Jun 2011 08:58 Post subject: |
|
|
that's called 3D Vision Surround, it's possible, but you need $$$$ ...^^"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Jun 2011 10:39 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vurt
Posts: 13823
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Mon, 27th Jun 2011 11:26 Post subject: |
|
|
I could never play like that with the black bars from the monitors.. Really ugly, and takes away immersion more than adds to it, imo. I tried bioshock on my new 47" panasonic 3DTV, and actually it's more impressive than i initially thought 3D would be. Also tried dragon age origins and a few other games, worked quite well, but the effect is more impressive from first person view.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Page 2 of 2 |
All times are GMT + 1 Hour |
. thx. So the plasma would be best probably?
