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 Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:12 Post subject: |
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As far as i can see I'm the only Norwegian person (other than Sabin who lives here aswell ofc) in this thread and i didn't say a word that indicated that i support anyone.
Last edited by Stormwolf on Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:12; edited 1 time in total
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:12 Post subject: |
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Let's all calm down and eat some of my Thai Green Curry.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:12 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:13 Post subject: |
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| Dhaos wrote: | Guys whatever sabin says is fact, its proven.
Revenue
EA $3.654 Billion
Zyngia $850 million |
exactly hes an idiot not willing to listen when hes proven wrong.
they are before tax etc the net profits are alot less an industry analyst predicts zynga make 30% profit which means the figure i qouted earlier is roughly spot on they make around 200 mil a year where as activsion etc can make that in a single quarter fairly easily.
zynga is also only worth so much because of market dominance and speculation these will not last there are hundreds of companies who make flash games more and more of them will taget facebook and then suddenly zyngas 44% wont be anywhere near as much and they will be estimated to be worth a fraction of what they are now where as the likes of EA and activsion will be worth atleast what they are now
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:16 Post subject: |
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| snoop1050 wrote: | | kenny64 wrote: | | So, how's things in here? |
are you one of his school friends? seems alot of people from norway are in ths thread suporting sabin |
What is this I don't even.
"A lot of people"? Are you insane? Kenny is the only Norwegian in here....... and he didn't "support" me, he asked what was going on >_<
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:18 Post subject: |
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your location says norway seeing as trolls is primarily a norwegian thing it makes perfect sense.
your either norwegian and a troll or just a troll and a liar
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:18 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:19 Post subject: |
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yet more adult than you as i will no longer eat your bait and feed the troll.
good day sir!
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:22 Post subject: |
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Norwegians have the troll gene, this is widely known across the Internetwork.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:22 Post subject: |
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Theoretically, Sabin is right about Zynga's worth, as it is reported to be worth 19$ B, but if you know, how the total worth of the privately held companies like these are estimated, then you also know, that the real amount of invested money plus all the profits it has thus far made plus the company assets' worth, are oftentimes much, much less, than an estimated worth of this kind.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:24 Post subject: |
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| Radicalus wrote: | | Theoretically, Sabin is right about Zynga's worth, as it is reported to be worth 19$ B, but if you know, how the total worth of the privately held companies like these are estimated, then you also know, that the real amount of invested money plus all the profits it has thus far made plus the company assets' worth, are oftentimes much, much less, than an estimated worth of this kind. |
That's why I was specifically talking about market worth. Their stock value is far higher than that of EA and in terms of market value, they're worth more as a company. Snoop is saying that's not so because, some day, some random time in the future, people will stop playing Zynga games 
FFS, you might as well say "Activision are worthless, some day their stock will drop to nothing because people don't play their games" as a counter >_<
| Theescapist wrote: |
Is activision worth more then ea?
Didn't know that the only game activision g#have is fucking cod. |
Absolutely so. So far Activision are the biggest game company out there, both in terms of revenue AND stock market value.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:27 Post subject: |
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Crystal ball derp pear would fit right in here.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:40 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: |
That's why I was specifically talking about market worth. Their stock value is far higher than that of EA and in terms of market value, they're worth more as a company.
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Yes, but there's a huge difference here, EA is open to public (stock market) trade, while Zynga is a privately held company, which has yet to make an initial public offering. This means the methods for estimating the worth of the companies is different. Pretty basic for EA, since you have stock market information to rely on for exact data, but for private companies the method is taking the last known investment an entity made in them, I think in this case it was something like 500 million for Zynga, and see how much share they got for it, and then reevaluate the company's previous worth according to this new data.
This method of calculation, however, hugely depends on the investor. On the stock market, there is high chance for the same share, they wouldn't have made off with 500 mills. Look at the articles about Groupon, they're preparing to go public, and all of a sudden, signs point towards them not being worth even close to estimations.
It's tricky and complex math, and this post I just made barely scratches it.
All I can say is, my personal opinion is, Zynga's high worth now is due to one thing only: private investors betting big on Zynga being able to continue its growth of their user base. This is the ultimate truth here. Question is, will the gamble pay off? My bet is no.
Let's also not forget, how easily those companies can crash and burn, who have such high estimated worth, but not enough assets and net income to support at least linear growth.
All things added up, I am no whiz, but I do play on the market btw, and am not doing too bad, I think once they go public, and a few months pass, Zynga's worth will fall below EA once again.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:45 Post subject: |
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Aye, that could well end up the truth. I have never stated, nor believed, that Zynga would ever beat EA - most certainly not in terms of revenue or long-term value - just that, as of right now, they're valued (estimated or not) as being worth more than EA. Mostly this is down to Zynga's rapid growth, installed userbase and also profit margin and growing revenue. EA are 20 odd years old, Zynga less than 5. Their growth is absolutely phenomenal.
Will it last? I honestly don't know. Facebook and "casual" gaming is getting more and more popular -- but with EA/Activision and the other big players poised to capture some of that casual market... yeah, I think it's a safe bet to assume Zynga's value will plummet once that happens.
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Sin317
Banned
Posts: 24322
Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:47 Post subject: |
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also net worth has nothing (not much anyway) to do with net profit. Assets etc coutn toward net worth, of which EA and activision have WAY more then zynga for sure (offices, inventory etc etc)
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 15:48 Post subject: |
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| snoop1050 wrote: |
zynga is also only worth so much because of market dominance and speculation these will not last there are hundreds of companies who make flash games more and more of them will taget facebook and then suddenly zyngas 44% wont be anywhere near as much and they will be estimated to be worth a fraction of what they are now where as the likes of EA and activsion will be worth atleast what they are now |
This is actually the only part I agree with in that pointless tirade. I've never questioned Zynga's future, just stating how it is TODAY.
| Sin317 wrote: | | also net worth has nothing (not much anyway) to do with net profit. Assets etc coutn toward net worth, of which EA and activision have WAY more then zynga for sure (offices, inventory etc etc) |
Agreed. This was a pointless argument anyway as we all know Zynga, despite their net worth, will never be a bigger company than those such as EA and Activision. It's primarily their userbase and company growth that is pushing their value up. Over 250 MILLION players for Zynga's "casual" games and a company that is less than 5 years old, making money hand over fist from derps who want to buy more "ENERGY!" for more "turns"
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Sin317
Banned
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Location: Geneva
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 16:03 Post subject: |
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| Dhaos wrote: | Guys whatever sabin says is fact, its proven.
Revenue
EA $3.654 Billion
Zyngia $850 million |
revenue is not the same as profit....
and its clear that EA has to spend a lot more money in :
marketing, artists, developers... and who knows what else..
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 16:21 Post subject: |
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I have to paste this again, because I want to explain, why I think investors are wrong on this:
Zynga's high worth now is due to one thing only: private investors betting big on Zynga being able to continue its linear(+) growth of their user base.
I think they won't be, and here are the reasons:
1. Zynga's marketing for their games is, as much as I have seen of them, not building brand awareness for Zynga, and as such, there aren't many customers loyal to zynga as there are to their games. This means, when competition arrives, people will move on to the next game perceived to be good, Zynga is no BioWare or Blizzard, when it comes to brands. Basically, their brand value is lower than EA's or Acti's or other software publishers'/developers'
2. There is a theoretical limit to growth - this I don't need to explain further
3. I think Zynga break a very important rule required for success in a competition - they don't diversify. They copy, apply the only model they know, they market. That is their plan and vision. I think that doesn't fly against genuinely creative people, with capital to match.
4. EA has more available money to invest. Just because a company is estimated to worth more than another, doesn't mean they have more money in the bank available. In fact, I think EA has, judging by how much they intend to pour in the marketing for BF3, at least ten times the cash freed up as Zynga does. Why is this important? Remember point 1? Yeah, that's why. Face to face, EA will be able to market a social game with more muscle than Zynga - so that will split zynga's users.
5. Facebook integrated Sims - yeah, we're laughing now, but Zynga will be crying because of it.
6. Pincus is a fucking moron. He never tried making something innovative and new, he instead stole and spammed. People like these always lose out in the end.
All that added up, I don't see that bright of a future for Zynga past the next five years.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 16:42 Post subject: |
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 16:46 Post subject: |
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Now, that I have actually read this lolfest of a thread, I'm kind of sorry I put effort in to sharing my non-troll opinion.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 16:53 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | | Now, that I have actually read this lolfest of a thread, I'm kind of sorry I put effort in to sharing my non-troll opinion. |
Don't be. I really appreciate it. |
Agreed. Your post was insightful =)
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 17:05 Post subject: |
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| Reklis wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | | Now, that I have actually read this lolfest of a thread, I'm kind of sorry I put effort in to sharing my non-troll opinion. |
Don't be. I really appreciate it. (And it's mostly the same I had in my head so far).
This trolltown just shows how little we care about EA buying Popcap  |
Problem is, I feel we have become so jaded, that we care about fewer and fewer things  - not trying to ruin the mood.
On a more serious note, let me state, that I don't care for "social" gaming. I game for other reasons, I don't need visual extensions of the facebook experience.
That being said, I see a lot of innovation coming on facebook. More and more people are joining gaming, even if only casually, that means more and more smart people are joining too, and that means, sooner or later, their need for more challenging games to migrate to will be economically great enough to warrant an alternative for the current braindead social games. I once said before, that I see something like a cycle restarting right about now, and in a few years time, perhaps no more than two, we'll have turn based strategies, simple 4x games and the likes being played en masse through facebook - or whatever. The reason? 1. Like I said before, the need will be there, not much, but sufficient to warrant a profit. 2. developing will be cheaper than making a 3*A desktop game.
I really see this happening, and I'm optimistic about it. That facebook DnD game they're making is a pretty good sign of this, to me, it didn't seem all that bad at all (for a first step in this direction).
By the time we're done with this cycle, there's a chance, I don't know how big, but a chance for sure to ease the smart people we need in to hardcore gaming, thus assuring the survival of complex games, like we like them.
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 17:07 Post subject: |
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| sabin1981 wrote: | | Reklis wrote: | | Radicalus wrote: | | Now, that I have actually read this lolfest of a thread, I'm kind of sorry I put effort in to sharing my non-troll opinion. |
Don't be. I really appreciate it. |
Agreed. Your post was insightful =) |
Thank you both <3
...
...
so now we have gay sex? I don't know how this works ...
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| Posted: Thu, 23rd Jun 2011 17:15 Post subject: |
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I used to play a few FB games, but in the end they always turn out the same; turns cost energy, you get given enough energy to give you a taste - but not enough to really get into the game. Inevitably I get bored, since I refuse to pay to continually play a game.
HOWEVER! I'm hoping DnD and Neverwinter change that.
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